first camera for a newbie

[Danno_RIP]

I think you have hit what I used to call the dreaded "analysis paralysis". It is when you get so much information and you so want to make the "RIGHT" decision. It becomes difficult to decide between the wants and the needs. If this were one of my old product development meetings I would have a decision matrix on the board and asking folks to decide the real "must haves" - the things that you are willing to pay money for.

I know what I would do if I had it to do again. I would buy the body I could afford and still get the lenses I need to do what I wanted in my photographs. It took me a while to figure that out, But I have the D7200, Sigma 10-20 mm F/3.5 for landscape and architecture, Nikon 200-500 for birds. Those two lens spend most of the time on my camera. I also have a Tamron for indoor event stuff that I do and another Sigma that I use for walk around. I also have a 50 1.8 that gets little if any use.

There are other lenses I want, but what I have keeps me busy shooting every day that I am up to it even if it is just to get out in the yard and walk around shooting clouds and landscapes. The thing is... buying the kit is the easy part... learning how to use it to capture images that make you smile is the hard part. You cannot start that process till you pull the trigger on the kit.

I wish you well with your decision and look forward to seeing your first photos you post.

 

[Marcel]

All this time you are arguing with yourself, asking everyone's opinion, you are not taking pictures.

I understand that your goal is to produce and sell fine arts prints. Now maybe I'm wrong, but this is not going to happen overnight. You will have to learn about light, post-processing, and maybe the most important, how to market you product. If you want to get to the top to earn a living, you will have to invest a lot of money and time to it. To me, buying the less expensive camera with no lens because, as you wrote, "Yeah I read that the bigger the zoom range, the more possible distortion may occur", will not get you very far. Lens distortion is something that all zoom lenses have, but it can be very well corrected in post processing. But you have to learn how to do that too...

You might have a lot to learn before you start selling your work, and you might as well start with a cheaper camera body, one you can afford right now without risking your entire savings. When and if you get good enough to sell your work, there will be better cameras on the market that you will be able to afford.

I will repeat my initial suggestion of getting a D90 or D7000. I know you might be afraid of second hand product, but if you deal with a reputable store (Henrys, in Canada), you can get a warranty. A D90 with a 35 and a 50 could help you learn and get a bit closer to your dream than spending months on forums asking thousands of people to take side on one particular model. If you listen to everyone's advice, you'll be running circles by no time.

So the decision is your's to make and I just hope you take the one that will let you enjoy photography and bring yourself closer to your dream.

 

[mauckcg]

You saying that when you bought your D7100, they didn't have a 18-140mm kit at the time? and you just bought the body?

I will check out those len suggestions




Yeah I read that the bigger the zoom range, the more possible distortion may occur

How come you don't have the 35mm 1.8 anymore?



that 1k aint enough in Canada, barely enough for D7100 body... only $50 difference for a used D7100

I don't remember if the 18-140 was available yet. I bought a D7100 back in 2014.

For the 35 1.8, i picked up a D750 on sale last december and snagged a sigma 35 1.4 to go with it. No sense having two 35mm lenses, and i have a 18-35 1.8 sigma. So 35mm is pretty well covered for me.

 

[deafguy87]

Finally got off from work... I'm a pastry chef at a restaurant

I think you have hit what I used to call the dreaded "analysis paralysis". It is when you get so much information and you so want to make the "RIGHT" decision. It becomes difficult to decide between the wants and the needs. If this were one of my old product development meetings I would have a decision matrix on the board and asking folks to decide the real "must haves" - the things that you are willing to pay money for.

I know what I would do if I had it to do again. I would buy the body I could afford and still get the lenses I need to do what I wanted in my photographs. It took me a while to figure that out, But I have the D7200, Sigma 10-20 mm F/3.5 for landscape and architecture, Nikon 200-500 for birds. Those two lens spend most of the time on my camera. I also have a Tamron for indoor event stuff that I do and another Sigma that I use for walk around. I also have a 50 1.8 that gets little if any use.

There are other lenses I want, but what I have keeps me busy shooting every day that I am up to it even if it is just to get out in the yard and walk around shooting clouds and landscapes. The thing is... buying the kit is the easy part... learning how to use it to capture images that make you smile is the hard part. You cannot start that process till you pull the trigger on the kit.

I wish you well with your decision and look forward to seeing your first photos you post.

haha I got the "analysis paralysis" ... probably need surgery to remove the thinking process of the brain and force it to make a decision or hopefully an easier approach by taking a pill lol ... I am an analytical, a planner and a bit picky type of people but not picky in food since I will try anything once

speaking of lenses I noticed that most people here don't have 18-55mm and 18-140mm.. I assumed they are not bad lenses but there are better value lenses or better image quality than the those two?... If I'm correct then it better to get D5300 or D7100 body depending on how expensive the specific lenses for my kind of photos are. since It might be hard to sell the 18-55mm or 18-140mm for profit.

Maybe get a len or two with the body to start off with...

All this time you are arguing with yourself, asking everyone's opinion, you are not taking pictures.

I understand that your goal is to produce and sell fine arts prints. Now maybe I'm wrong, but this is not going to happen overnight. You will have to learn about light, post-processing, and maybe the most important, how to market you product. If you want to get to the top to earn a living, you will have to invest a lot of money and time to it. To me, buying the less expensive camera with no lens because, as you wrote, "Yeah I read that the bigger the zoom range, the more possible distortion may occur", will not get you very far. Lens distortion is something that all zoom lenses have, but it can be very well corrected in post processing. But you have to learn how to do that too...

You might have a lot to learn before you start selling your work, and you might as well start with a cheaper camera body, one you can afford right now without risking your entire savings. When and if you get good enough to sell your work, there will be better cameras on the market that you will be able to afford.

I will repeat my initial suggestion of getting a D90 or D7000. I know you might be afraid of second hand product, but if you deal with a reputable store (Henrys, in Canada), you can get a warranty. A D90 with a 35 and a 50 could help you learn and get a bit closer to your dream than spending months on forums asking thousands of people to take side on one particular model. If you listen to everyone's advice, you'll be running circles by no time.

So the decision is your's to make and I just hope you take the one that will let you enjoy photography and bring yourself closer to your dream.

you actually gave me some perspective on the situation... I totally agree with you that I have a lot to learn, I'm not denying that at all

I'm actually a creative guy because I'm a head pastry chef at a restaurant and have an education in marketing.. it will help me market the photos in the future to target markets and create unique shots.

one of my worries on deciding the camera because of the investment into it because what if I do well in photography and have to upgrade to full frame in the future, which means I have to sell everything since it DX and i'm a bit nervous of losing money as well... also I want to make sure with the DX stage that the lenses that are pairing up the DX are great value lenses that produce great image quality for fine art photos in the future.

Actually it a bit difficult to find D90/ D7000 around here

I don't remember if the 18-140 was available yet. I bought a D7100 back in 2014.

For the 35 1.8, i picked up a D750 on sale last december and snagged a sigma 35 1.4 to go with it. No sense having two 35mm lenses, and i have a 18-35 1.8 sigma. So 35mm is pretty well covered for me.

Ahh right, I forgot you got a FX now... duh

 

[Horoscope Fish]

I got the "analysis paralysis" ...

I think you can, "What if..." this until you're blue in the face get nowhere. Fact is, photography is not an inexpensive hobby and it's always evolving. In my opinion you need to determine what your budget for this venture is, a serious, "hard number" of what you are willing to spend. With that figure known we can help you maximize your return on investment. You're concerned about the image quality of the 18-140mm but are you willing, for instance, shell out $1,800 for the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, or $2,000 for the 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II? Those lenses will out perform the 18-140mm but are you willing pay for that level of performance? Because if you want to play, you have to pay. If your budget is $5,000 that's one path, if your budget is $500, that's a different path.

And finally, and in my opinion what is far more important than the camera-body you buy, or the lens you put on it, will be how well you understand what makes for good a photograph in the first place. Have you given any consideration to that?

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

The 18-140 is a fine lens. It is more about how good you are than the equipment is.


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[deafguy87]

I think you can, "What if..." this until you're blue in the face get nowhere. Fact is, photography is not an inexpensive hobby and it's always evolving. In my opinion you need to determine what your budget for this venture is, a serious, "hard number" of what you are willing to spend. With that figure known we can help you maximize your return on investment. You're concerned about the image quality of the 18-140mm but are you willing, for instance, shell out $1,800 for the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, or $2,000 for the 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II? Those lenses will out perform the 18-140mm but are you willing pay for that level of performance? Because if you want to play, you have to pay. If your budget is $5,000 that's one path, if your budget is $500, that's a different path.

And finally, and in my opinion what is far more important than the camera-body you buy, or the lens you put on it, will be how well you understand what makes for good a photograph in the first place. Have you given any consideration to that?

Umm not ready to shell out a couple grands on a len and I checked the Canadian prices for those two lenses ... it 200-300 bucks more lol

Definitely more important to buy the lens over the body... plus I got other gears to buy like a computer for processing, printer, memory card, tripod etc

Look like I will probably be getting the D5300 now lol... which D5300 should I get?

Body - $676.87
18-55mm - $812.49
18-140mm - $1106

 

[deafguy87]

The 18-140 is a fine lens. It is more about how good you are than the equipment is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

is there a reason why you pick 18-140mm over 18-55mm or the body with another len?

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

is there a reason why you pick 18-140mm over 18-55mm or the body with another len?

I have had both the 18-55 and the 18-140. The 18-140 wins hands down in my book. If I had to go back to shooting with a DX it would be with the D7100 which I still own and I would get another 18-140 to go with it. Of course my wife would shoot me if I tried to take the D7100 away from her.

 

[deafguy87]

I have had both the 18-55 and the 18-140. The 18-140 wins hands down in my book. If I had to go back to shooting with a DX it would be with the D7100 which I still own and I would get another 18-140 to go with it. Of course my wife would shoot me if I tried to take the D7100 away from her.

I have a question regarding the D7100 ... it got auto focus motor which means it allows to have more access to different lenses and there are lenses out there that are cheaper for D7100 comparing to lenses for D5300... am I wrong?

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I have a question regarding the D7100 ... it got auto focus motor which means it allows to have more access to different lenses and there are lenses out there that are cheaper for D7100 comparing to lenses for D5300... am I wrong?

Yes you do not have to have lenses that have the focus motor in the lens. Some of the older lenses are really nice and can be had on the uses market a lot cheaper. Both are fine cameras but the D7100 will allow for more growth.


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[deafguy87]

Yes you do not have to have lenses that have the focus motor in the lens. Some of the older lenses are really nice and can be had on the uses market a lot cheaper. Both are fine cameras but the D7100 will allow for more growth.


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so if it a lot cheaper... would the future lens offset the price difference of $250 between D5300 and D7100 with the 18-140mm kit... Also in the future when I upgrade the body to full frame in the future ... can those lenses that associating with the D7100 work on the FX body? so that way I don't have to lose money from selling the D5300 and their lenses in the long run

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

so if it a lot cheaper... would the future lens offset the price difference of $250 between D5300 and D7100 with the 18-140mm kit... Also in the future when I upgrade the body to full frame in the future ... can those lenses that associating with the D7100 work on the FX body? so that way I don't have to lose money from selling the D5300 and their lenses in the long run

That decision is up to you. Choice of lenses will dictate if they can be used on the FX camera. Most of the inexpensive lenses are DX lenses and they can not be used on a FX camera.

this might help you. Nikon D5300 vs D7100 - Our Analysis

The choice is yours. We can not help you

D5300 body at Amazon is $596.95
D7100 Refurbish at Camata Camera $$689.99

$90 us difference. I know which one I would go for.

 

[deafguy87]

That decision is up to you. Choice of lenses will dictate if they can be used on the FX camera. Most of the inexpensive lenses are DX lenses and they can not be used on a FX camera.

this might help you. Nikon D5300 vs D7100 - Our Analysis

The choice is yours. We can not help you

D5300 body at Amazon is $596.95
D7100 Refurbish at Camata Camera $$689.99

$90 us difference. I know which one I would go for.

I'm just shocked you guys got those prices even though I live in Canada... I'm going to try to find a better deal ... maybe there are local camera stores that got better deals ... I'm getting ripped off comparing to you guys lol

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I'm just shocked you guys got those prices even though I live in Canada... I'm going to try to find a better deal ... maybe there are local camera stores that got better deals ... I'm getting ripped off comparing to you guys lol

These are in US dollars and the D7100 is a refurbished camera and both are body only prices. Take that into consideration.

 

[aroy]

Finally got off from work... I'm a pastry chef at a restaurant

............

you actually gave me some perspective on the situation... I totally agree with you that I have a lot to learn, I'm not denying that at all

I'm actually a creative guy because I'm a head pastry chef at a restaurant and have an education in marketing.. it will help me market the photos in the future to target markets and create unique shots.

one of my worries on deciding the camera because of the investment into it because what if I do well in photography and have to upgrade to full frame in the future, which means I have to sell everything since it DX and i'm a bit nervous of losing money as well... also I want to make sure with the DX stage that the lenses that are pairing up the DX are great value lenses that produce great image quality for fine art photos in the future.

.......

Yours is a classical dilemma of those who want to change their profession (to earn more or to get better recognition). You have the confidence but have yet to ascertain whether you have the capacity to excel in the new profession, and go further than you can in your present profession. Many of us on this forum are amateur photographers, who do it for the love of it. For us it is more of an enjoyment, rather than a profession, that is why there is such a wide spectrum of suggestions.

You have to realise that to achieve the capability of selling images/prints takes time and is a pretty crouded space. It is similar in any profession. Take your case as a Pastry Chef. You do not become a chef just because you have bought the best knife, equipment and fancy pots and pans. Neither do you become one just because you have watched a few videos. You become one after you have worked hard in assimilating both the theory and practice of cooking. After that it is practice, practice, and practice creating mouth watering dishes patrons would die for.

One thing to note is that for each profession, some people have it and some do not. No matter how much you read or practice, if you do not have it in you, you will never become a chef who is in demand, and will remain mediocre. Similarly some people have an eye for images and some do not. Just because you want to and can get fancy equipment does not result in your selling images to make money. There are thousands of people who have a camera and are willing to post excellent images, and some of them even give it away free. So in order to make money from photography you must
. Know what people are willing to pay for. Most important know who will pay for what you offer.
. Offer the clients some thing they will not get from the competition.
. Initially specialise in a niche which is not overcrowded.

Though it may be uncalled for, I would suggest that you get the least expensive camera kit - D3300 with kit 18-55 lens and the 35mm F1.8 DX, and practice for at least a year with this kit. You start with what is familiar to you - food. Pastry photography is a fascinating subject and there are very few photographers who are good at it. Read up as many articles on food photography as you can, and study the images that are selling. Then try to duplicate them with what ever equipment you have. Remember that fancy high end equipment will just make your photography easier as a professional, but the D3300 is equally capable body and if your images are not eye catching and stand out from the snap shots of the general public, then they will never do so with more expensive equipment. After all it is the person behind the camera who matters most.

 

[deafguy87]

Yours is a classical dilemma of those who want to change their profession (to earn more or to get better recognition). You have the confidence but have yet to ascertain whether you have the capacity to excel in the new profession, and go further than you can in your present profession. Many of us on this forum are amateur photographers, who do it for the love of it. For us it is more of an enjoyment, rather than a profession, that is why there is such a wide spectrum of suggestions.

You have to realise that to achieve the capability of selling images/prints takes time. It is similar in any profession. Take your case as a Pastry Chef. You do not become a chef just because you have bought the best knife, equipment and fancy pots and pans. Neither do you become one just because you have watched a few videos. You become one after you have worked hard in assimilating both the theory and practice of cooking. After that it is practice, practice, and practice creating mouth watering dishes patrons would die for.

One thing to note is that for each profession, some people have it and some do not. No matter how much you read or practice, if you do not have it in you, you will never become a chef who is in demand, and will remain mediocre. Similarly some people have an eye for images and some do not. Just because you want to and can get fancy equipment does not result in your selling images to make money. There are thousands of people who have a camera and are willing to post excellent images, and some of them even give it away free. So in order to make money from photography you must
. Know what people are willing to pay for. Most important know who will pay for what you offer.
. Offer the clients some thing they will not get from the competition.
. Initially specialise in a niche which is not overcrowded.

Though it may be uncalled for, I would suggest that you get the least expensive camera kit - D3300 with kit 18-55 lens and the 35mm F1.8 DX, and practice for at least a year with this kit. You start with what is familiar to you - food. Pastry photography is a fascinating subject and there are very few photographers who are good at it. Read up as many articles on food photography as you can, and study the images that are selling. Then try to duplicate them with what ever equipment you have. Remember that fancy high end equipment will just make your photography easier as a professional, but the D3300 is equally capable body and if your images are not eye catching and stand out from the snap shots of the general public, then they will never do so with more expensive equipment. After all it is the person behind the camera who matters most.

Lol that's a great analogy ... funny coincidence you said practice practice practice because I said the same thing to my head chef when he tried to make the desserts while I was away on vacation. He couldn't do the same quality as high as mine and I told him "just practice... over and over again... if you change one variable, end result get affected by it and that it"

Why D3300 and not D5300 or D7100 .. same goes for 18-55mm and not 18-140mm?

Huh! I never thought of food/pastry photography ... will check that out

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[aroy]

Lol that's a great analogy ... funny coincidence you said practice practice practice because I said the same thing to my head chef when he tried to make the desserts while I was away on vacation. He couldn't do the same quality as high as mine and I told him "just practice... over and over again... if you change one variable, end result get affected by it and that it"

Why D3300 and not D5300 or D7100 .. same goes for 18-55mm and not 18-140mm?

Huh! I never thought of food/pastry photography ... will check that out

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

1. D3300 because it is least expensive body with 24MP and no high pass filter. The images that will come out will be equivalent to those from D5xxx and D7xxx in quality. The difference is that D5xxx has a swivel LCD, a few more focus points and a few more goodies, none of which will make a better image. D7xxx have robust weather proof body, more buttons a second LCD and a motor in the body. Again it will not give you better images per say, What it will do is to weather rain and dust better, have more buttons so that you do not have to set option via menu and enable the use of older D type AF lenses that require a motor in the body. On the whole if you cannot get an outstanding image with D3300, you will not with the higher priced models.

2. The longer the zoom range, the more compromise in lens design and in general the lower the IQ at the extremes. The 18-140 is a 1:7.7 zoom while the 18-55 is 1:3 zoom. So the 18-55 will in general be sharper, lighter and lower in cost than the 18-140. If you want to move around with only one lens and want to catch the moment; forget the IQ as what you get is more important; then the 18-140 or the 18-300 is a great buy. If you want better image quality and better low light capability the go for either primes or zooms with short range.

One thing that few realise is that the kit lenses sell the most (some authorities believe that half the lenses sold are kit lenses), so the volume ensures that the kit lens has the minimum price for the quality it offers. This is similar to 50mm lens of film days. They had excellent optics and were dirt cheap.

Now let me get back to your original reason for posting.
Changing profession is an extremely painful experience, especially if things do not pan out the way you thought they will. If possible you should practice the new profession to evaluate your capacity to be proficient in it. In case you realise at a later date that the new profession you wanted to enter so much is not jelling, you have the existing one to fall back on.

Photography has become pedestrian; with cell phones generating excellent images; that a professional photographer is either at the top making tons of money or at the bottom barely making a living. There is no middle path today.

 

[Lawrence]

why would you buy a 35mm if you have that range coverd in 18-55?
You are kidding yourself if you think the learning curve is not going to cost you money (probably a lot of money) before (and if) youever start making money
Check to see if there is indeed a resale market for a 18-55 kit lenses - i'd be surprised if you could make money by selling them.

If you take this long to decide with all the input you have been given well then my friend there is only one of two cameras for you - the D7100 or D7200. With all the others and with your superb ability to procrastinate the opportunity to take the shot will be long gone.

Hell you would have been too slow to take a photo of the Buddhas of Bamiyan (and they had been around for thouseands of years)

 

[Kevin H]

Here's one right up your alley

NIKON D5300 2 LENS, PACKAGE with WARRANTY | cameras, camcorders | Oakville / Halton Region | Kijiji