Upcoming changes to the Photo Critique forum...

[Browncoat]

There has been lackluster participation in this forum for awhile now. The moderator staff has been tossing around ideas on how to improve the use of the Critique Forum, as we feel that getting feedback from your peers is a vital part of the growth and education process. We are interested in what the community would like to see here, and value your opinions.

Major points brought up in our discussions:

1) Members posting a photo for critique are often vague as to what the intent of the photo is, or what they are looking for feedback on. Often times, there is no EXIF data posted either.

2) We would like to see some kind of rating system in place. For example, a maximum score of 5 and members would assign a total point value based on different merits of photography. If someone valued your submission at 4.65 or even 2, they would be asked to provide reasons why.

We want this forum to feel welcoming and encourage members to offer up their work for critique. We also want to encourage members to provide meaningful feedback. "Good job" or "I like it" is not meaningful. In addition, there are a lot of submissions posted in the forum that quite honestly don't belong here. They should be posted to a blog or just added to a member's gallery because the intent was to merely share a photo.

What would you like to see here? How can we improve things?

 

[JoeLewisPhotography]

Thank you! Praise the lord hallelujah AMEN.

I just think we need good ground rules for the critique section, for both ends. the person asking for critique, as well as those giving it.

The critique forum here is what originally drove me away from the site for a while. It drove me nuts. I LOVE helping people and giving my honest opinion and giving them guidence, while other members feel the need to sugar coat everything and use the "nice pic" or "good job" method of critiquing. They are just opinions. If you have one, BACK IT UP. Lets here WHY you do, or don't like it.

At the same time, people posting the photos for critique need to understand that they are going to hear the good, AND the bad, and they may need thick skin in some cases. DONT post a photo for critique if you cant take the heat. Few people here actually saw my opinions for what they were. while the other saw me as mean, and degrading. I didn't think so. I saw them as honest and helpful. If a picture is great, I will let you know...and WHY. If a picture sucks, I will tell you flat out, and WHY it sucks. Also, when getting a not so great critique...DONT make excuses. Nothing irritates me more then when you make mention of a fault and they poster goes on the defense saying things like, "well, i was in a big hurry, spur of the moment and I didnt bring my good lens, the lighting wasnt great and I was barefoot walking backwards on hot coal with high winds, with one arm tied behind my back". No, you just made an error, we all do, we are only human. Learn from the mistake, get your butt out there and try it again!

Here is what I would like to see.

-When posting a photo for critique, Give us details. Tell us why you took the shot, how you took it, and the EXIF.

-When giving the critique...be brutally honest. If you have nothing constructive to say, stay out of it. If you merely just like a photo, but have no words for the poster....CLICK THE LIKE BUTTON.

-If you want an "atta boy" or a pat on the back for a photo you think is awesome, post it else where...The critique section is not for that. Perhaps make a seperate section called "show off" where people can do just that. post pics for all to see without fear of being critiqued.

-Im not keen on the rating system. you're going to get a lot of people just rating the photo and not commenting. if i put a photo up for critique, and had 10 people rate my photo, and had no real comments...3 or 4 stars is not going to help me. Its just going to tell me its not perfect. If you do put something like this in place, it should only be used with in conjunction with comments. in other words, you cannot rate someones photo without stating why you rate it the way you did.

IDK, it's asking a lot from everyone, and rules and guidelines are often ignored.

As much as Id like to see all of this stuff in place and working flawlessly, its more work, and people are lazy. The critique activity will most likely drop drastically all around.

 

[Lscha]

Personally, I'm staying out of the critique section. I know how bad some of my photos are and it may well be that I'm going for something another person hates, (like HDR, special effects, artsy-fartsy or even under-over exposure). I do, however, LOVE the private messages that offer constructive criticism on ANY of my photos. And any that have offered suggestions on other threads have been welcome. I have learned a lot from suggestions but, yup, I'm too thin-skinned to ask for a drop-kick in a thread where I post a pic.

 

[JoeLewisPhotography]

I think as long as your intentions are made clear in the first post, you wouldnt have to worry about it so much. Like saying... "Here is an artsy fartsy hdr photo i took that i deliberately underexposed and added special effects to...tell me what you think?" lol. Whatever it is, just make it clear and you wont get ragged on for those things. If you cannot take a bit of criticism, then you may never grow. Regardless...to most photographers, other peoples opinions matter, otherwise, why would we ever show our work?

 

[Browncoat]

Im not keen on the rating system. you're going to get a lot of people just rating the photo and not commenting. if i put a photo up for critique, and had 10 people rate my photo, and had no real comments...3 or 4 stars is not going to help me. Its just going to tell me its not perfect. If you do put something like this in place, it should only be used with in conjunction with comments. in other words, you cannot rate someones photo without stating why you rate it the way you did.

No one wants an automated click here to add stars type of rating system. That would promote exactly what we're trying to avoid, and give members the option to opt out of what we want to promote here...honest, meaningful feedback. The critique forum is a tough place to moderate. We need to set some ground rules and enforce them, but at the same time, not try to pigeonhole everyone into following some kind of template for responses.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

The problem I have seen in this section is that some members tend to be mean spirited in their "Helpful" comments. I managed 100s of people over the years and one thing a boss taught me was that when critiquing something or someone is that you tell/show them their problems but you always try to end up with a positive comment. There are many types of people in this forum. There are the professionals, the I think I am professional, and the people "like me" that just enjoy photography and do it for their own enjoyment. I think I have had a couple of decent photos but will probably never put one in the critique section again.

 

[gqtuazon]

This is a good idea but everyone of us have our own style of shooting. Some shoot with available lighting and some prefers to light up their subjects, so it becomes very subjective. I am not in a position to critique a picture since I am not an expert in that field.

All I know is that I get grumpy if I don't get to shoot at least 2x a week.

 

[Rick M]

Anything to spark some interest in the Critique section can only be an improvement. It has been very slow lately.

 

[Oomph]

Would be nice if the person whom Critiques the posted photo and has a negative review to not only state the issue but a potential fix, people like me would not be offended by a negative Critique, its how we learn and grow in life,but just letting me know the Fstop was off and the while balance is screwed up (if technical know how of the reviewer is evident in previous posts), let me know what i could have done better. I would add a burden to the Mods (sorry) to remove posts that dont meet the criteria set out by them or the Admin. Perhaps a Pic of the week spotlight from the section may add some oomph to the community activity and/or most improved shooter, just some ideas.

 

[Browncoat]

The problem I have seen in this section is that some members tend to be mean spirited in their "Helpful" comments...I have had a couple of decent photos but will probably never put one in the critique section again.

I took some time before responding here, and went back (16-20 pages deep) to look at several posts....paying particular attention to threads started by you and the feedback you received. Nowhere, in all those hundreds of posts, did I see any mean spirited comments. I would advise visiting the critique section of a few other photography forums. You will find the company there a lot less forgiving.

I would add a burden to the Mods (sorry) to remove posts that dont meet the criteria set out by them or the Admin. Perhaps a Pic of the week spotlight from the section may add some oomph to the community activity and/or most improved shooter, just some ideas.

Both good suggestions. Believe me, as the original moderator of this forum, I've often had the notion to intervene and be more strict on what is posted here. We are definitely leaning towards a bit more standard posting format, but we don't want to discourage participation by taking things over the top. It's a juggling act that will probably never be balanced.

Keep them coming!

 

[ohkphoto]

The rating system will work if everybody takes time to read the Twelve Elements of a Merit Image. There has not been one photo on this forum that I would give a perfect 5 to, and I include mine in there. It's not enough to just like a photo, figure out what you like about it and say so. And you can be honest without being brutal. Photography is subjective, everybody has a different style and vision, but there are still common characteristics shared by great photos. And I agree that it's important for the photographer to say something about the photo, and also POST THE EXIF DATA LIKE THE RULES STATE.

I used the rating system to critique pedorj's photo: http://nikonites.com/photo-critique/6040-pano.html

What we don't need are smart a$$ comments like, "wow. you should just sell your camera. all your photos suck" (NOT that anyone has said this -- I couldn't think of anything else) This is the one place where everybody should be professionally constructive. Personally, I think that any post where there is just a number rating without a bona fide critique should be deleted.

 

[jdeg]

No one wants an automated click here to add stars type of rating system. That would promote exactly what we're trying to avoid, and give members the option to opt out of what we want to promote here...honest, meaningful feedback. The critique forum is a tough place to moderate. We need to set some ground rules and enforce them, but at the same time, not try to pigeonhole everyone into following some kind of template for responses.

What if the person doing the critique has to also reply to use the rating system?

 

[Browncoat]

Are you saying that you could code such a rating system so that someone couldn't even use it unless they....typed at least 100 characters first?

 

[Eduard]

Would it be possible to have a template applied whenever a thread is started? Something like a Word or Excel template? We could require the EXIF info and the purpose of the critique request.

 

[jdeg]

Are you saying that you could code such a rating system so that someone couldn't even use it unless they....typed at least 100 characters first?

Maybe

 

[jdeg]

Would it be possible to have a template applied whenever a thread is started? Something like a Word or Excel template? We could require the EXIF info and the purpose of the critique request.

Also possible. I was actually trying to find something that adds fields to a thread submission.

 

[Lscha]

How 'bout making the "twelve elements necessary for the success of an image" the standard for submitted photos? Encourage suggestions from forum members as to how they think each element could be improved (if need be) by adjusting settings, post editing or modifying equipment.

This is basically going back to square one but EXIF information would have to be provided.

Sticking to the 12 would, possibly, eliminate the "I just don't like it" factor. Just a thought.

 

[Browncoat]

How 'bout making the "twelve elements necessary for the success of an image" the standard for submitted photos?

Yup, we've brought that up as well. It's a familiar format for those who have done the weekly challenges.

 

[Eduard]

Would it be possible to have a template applied whenever a thread is started? Something like a Word or Excel template? We could require the EXIF info and the purpose of the critique request.

Also possible. I was actually trying to find something that adds fields to a thread submission.

We KNOW you can do it. You have the technology. You have the capability to build the world's first bionic critique forum! Or something like that.

 

[ohkphoto]

We KNOW you can do it. You have the technology. You have the capability to build the world's first bionic critique forum! Or something like that.

Wow! genius man!!