D7200/D9300 leaked? Possibly.

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Chris E

Senior Member
Here's an article by Hogan I ran across the other day from a link on another forum:

Watch for Closing Windows | byThom | Thom Hogan

I wrote something to this effect on another thread here a few weeks ago.

I just don't see Nikon continuing along their current path with DSLR crop cameras. With the arrival of crop size sensors on mirrorless cameras like the Samsung, what is the incentive? Full blown hobbyists will eventually want to move to FF, and crop cameras were always an economical choice for those just starting out or on a budget. Now mirrorless is giving the same IQ in a smaller package, making it easier for travel and convenience for the person who doesn't want to go all in on photography.

Look at the new cameras lately from Nikon.....all FF. 810, 800E, 650, 750. I believe all or most of those have come out since the 7100. No new DX lenses lately. Other companies offering crop size sensors in mirrorless cameras. Logic tells me that Nikon's future for crop cameras will be mirrorless.
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I think Hogan is right, on both the future of DX and probability of a new DX mirrorless lens line. It has to be that way....why would the consumer continue to buy a more expensive camera system that is bulkier, with the same performance (even less so in FPS), than the competition? OVF is not gonna be that big of deal to have enough of an impact to sway this business decision. Obviously, there may be one more round of a new/new DX DLSR(s), but not any more IMO.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
I do believe that the consumer market is, in fact, swinging hard towards mirrorless cameras, which is why I'm a bit surprised Nikon has yet to introduce one with an APS-C sensor like Sony and Fujifilm. That said, the fact that the specs on this camera point towards a pro-style body do not surprise me because there is still a market on that side for this type of camera. Not huge, mind you, but it's there.

In speaking with folks at the PhotoPlus Expo in New York earlier this month it became obvious that the industry is sitting and waiting for something to emerge in the mirrorless that revolutionizes those cameras and makes them desirable across all ranges of photographers instead of just being a logical alternative for most people - either a step up from their camera phone or a compact alternative to their DSLR. No one knows what that is, but until it reveals itself there's nothing but flat and stale everywhere.
 
Marcel

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
One thing not to forget is that DX sensors weren't built to be cheaper, they were built because they just couldn't make sensors any bigger at the time they were introduced. But technology certainly has a way of improving over itself at an extremely fast rate and sensors just got bigger, and now they are getting less and less expensive to produce. But, like a lot have discovered, FX also comes with a price. Lenses are more expensive and you loose the reach of DX for sports and wildlife shooters.

But don't forget that the market is a bit saturated with all kinds of other stuff people want and for a vast majority of normal human beings, a camera is just not on top of their want list. But since companies are in business to make a profit, it's their job to find the best way for them to create and feed our wants for more. Just seeing Nikon's camera body evolution and fast improvement makes me think they are trying hard to get our cash from our pockets to their bank account.

It's just up to each of us to evaluate his real need versus want and decide accordingly.
 
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Rick M

Senior Member
I'm still thinking a pro body will emerge, but will Nikon have missed the boat? The longer Nikon waits, the more I think it could be mirrorless. Consumers like small efficient electronics. Eventually I think the large DSLR body will be a tool of pro's only as the rest (Dx shooters) opt for efficiency which produces the same quality anyway.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Rick M said:
I'm still thinking a pro body will emerge, but will Nikon have missed the boat? The longer Nikon waits, the more I think it could be mirrorless. Consumers like small efficient electronics. Eventually I think the large DSLR body will be a tool of pro's only as the rest (Dx shooters) opt for efficiency which produces the same quality anyway.
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You called "mirrorless" back in the spring. My hope would be that if it is mirrorless then it would do more than 8 fps.
 
C

Chris E

Senior Member
BackdoorHippie said:
I do believe that the consumer market is, in fact, swinging hard towards mirrorless cameras, which is why I'm a bit surprised Nikon has yet to introduce one with an APS-C sensor like Sony and Fujifilm. That said, the fact that the specs on this camera point towards a pro-style body do not surprise me because there is still a market on that side for this type of camera. Not huge, mind you, but it's there.

In speaking with folks at the PhotoPlus Expo in New York earlier this month it became obvious that the industry is sitting and waiting for something to emerge in the mirrorless that revolutionizes those cameras and makes them desirable across all ranges of photographers instead of just being a logical alternative for most people - either a step up from their camera phone or a compact alternative to their DSLR. No one knows what that is, but until it reveals itself there's nothing but flat and stale everywhere.
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The market for the current type of camera will decrease. We, as in current DSLR owners that would potentially go buy the new DX DSLR, are not a very big group. And, some of us would be willing to have a smaller system so that makes it even a smaller group. I would not go buy the new DX DSLR because I think the concept is doomed.

So, it boils down to knowing a certain % of current DX owners will eventually go mirrorless when the technology progresses, and nearly 100% of future owners would go mirrorless because of the cheaper price and smaller package. The only thing that makes sense is Nikon get on board.

Marcel said:
One thing not to forget is that DX sensors weren't built to be cheaper, they were built because they just couldn't make sensors any bigger at the time they were introduced. But technology certainly has a way of improving over itself at an extremely fast rate and sensors just got bigger, and now they are getting less and less expensive to produce. But, like a lot have discovered, FX also comes with a price. Lenses are more expensive and you loose the reach of DX for sports and wildlife shooters.

But don't forget that the market is a bit saturated with all kinds of other stuff people want and for a vast majority of normal human beings, a camera is just not on top of their want list. But since companies are in business to make a profit, it's their job to find the best way for them to create and feed our wants for more. Just seeing Nikon's camera body evolution and fast improvement makes me think they are trying hard to get our cash from our pockets to their bank account.

It's just up to each of us to evaluate his real need versus want and decide accordingly.
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I have no idea if what you say in your first sentence is true, but the original reason for DX is irrelevant going forward. The sensor is also not the issue....mirrorless should have the same sensor capability in terms of IQ. You are talking the same technology for either type of camera.

In terms of what Nikon is doing, we will see. I don't plan on buying anything related to DSLR in the next couple of years and if Canon keeps progressing then I will probably switch. I'm going to one of Bryan Peterson's workshops in Key West in January, and I'm not looking forward to packing all this bulky crap. :cool:I can't see Nikon waiting much longer, though
 
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Rick M

Senior Member
I'm in a facebook group in my area with about 2,300 members. The vast majority (80-90%?) are Dx shooters. The interesting thing is they are very unknowing and not matching the potential of their cameras (most only have kit lenses). I'll bet most of them don't even know what mirrorless is. They bought a "big" camera to take "real" pictures, but do little in post so they don't even know whats wrong. I'll also bet many will never buy another Dx body, We (members here and other forums) are a very small minority which maximize the potential of Dx. Some of them have seen my Oly and scratch their heads thinking they should have got something different.
 
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sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
Well.....I don't know how to interpret Nikon's lack of response to the mirrorless world. It's as if the whole camera world has left them in the dust. Sony (if you read my earlier post on another thread) has stated that in February they will be coming out with their 'Pro' line of mirrorless cameras. Olympus has released I guess what they call their 4/3's pro lineup. The top two photgraphic manufacturers haven't really shown anyone or told anyone of their future plans. I think Nikon is just riding the wave, and I don't foresee any more DX cameras unless they have had one in the cooker that was too late to stop production of.

Sony has detailed what their plans are, and are sticking to the plan. They have told of a 46 mp sensor, and that the A7 series was a 'test'. DX is out as I see it, and I'm not going to invest too much more on any lenses. I might get one more or two more, but that's it. I have no plans to get Sony's next generation of their 'pro' series. I think I'm settled in for a while to see where the market and the manufacturers go from this point forward.

If my guess is correct, I think Nikon and Canon are trying desparetely to go to the top of the mirrorless world. As far as @jake's comments go, I think if you've been reading about mirrorless much lately, you should know that one of the beneifts of going mirrorless is faster shutter speeds. There is no mirror to slow the process down, and therefore, thereotically, there should not be a written threshold so far to limit the fps of the new mirrorless cameras coming out. I think they will get faster as the manufacturers release more models. They have to have something to entice you to buy the newest and best, and my bet is that the mfg.'s will use this speed as one of their important enticements to get you to upgrade. I see 20 fps easily in the future. There is nothing to slow it down.

after thinking it over....the only thing slowing fps down will be battery life. :hopelessness:

article here
 
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Nero

Nero

Senior Member
Meh, I don't yet see a reason to believe that someone would really be suffering that much if they didn't switch to a mirrorless camera. There's not really a big enough difference in quality to make it worth completely switching. That's just me though. Maybe in the future though, I could see myself doing it if mirrorless improves enough to truly leave DSLR's in the dust but I'd really have to get used to the size. I have big hands. Lol

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 4
 
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aroy

Senior Member
The only thing to slow down high fps is the processing power of the CPU, the buffer size and of course the card write speed. Today the fastest speeds are for sensors at or below 18MP. At 11 fps, 24MP and 14 bit RAW you need a throughput of at least 500 MB/sec and a buffer of equal size for each second, which means at least 4GB for a sustained burst of 50+ shots. Such speeds and buffer will eat up battery very fast. The current Sony QXD cards are approaching the 400MB/sec speeds and they may soon go beyond 600 to enable continuous bursts a reality. But these speeds will come at a steep price.
 
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sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
aroy said:
The only thing to slow down high fps is the processing power of the CPU, the buffer size and of course the card write speed. Today the fastest speeds are for sensors at or below 18MP. At 11 fps, 24MP and 14 bit RAW you need a throughput of at least 500 MB/sec and a buffer of equal size for each second, which means at least 4GB for a sustained burst of 50+ shots. Such speeds and buffer will eat up battery very fast. The current Sony QXD cards are approaching the 400MB/sec speeds and they may soon go beyond 600 to enable continuous bursts a reality. But these speeds will come at a steep price.
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The more that are produced....QXD cards....mass production of them, the lower the prices will go. It aways happens that way.
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Here are the rumored Nikon D7200 specifications:

New 24MP APS-C sensor
Nikon D750 styled body with a tilting screen
Expeed 4 processor
MultiCAM 3500DX2 auto-focus system
51 AF points
Built-in Wi-Fi
6fps
Buffer: 16 RAW+JPG
Video: 1080p @60 and 720p @120 (not sure about 4k)
Video aperture will be adjustable during live view
Expected announcement in the first few months of 2015


Read more on NikonRumors.com: Nikon D7200 rumored specifications | Nikon Rumors
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These look like some decent, if somewhat incremental, upgrades to the D7100; about what I would expect really. I'll be curious to see what price tag looks like.
...
 
D

Daz

Senior Member
xlDeMoNiClx said:
I'm both disappointed and a bit glad it'll be announced after the show. Disappointed because I want it NOW! Glad because it means they're probably taking the QC more seriously.
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Im hoping it gets announced and released before May, I am off to Aus and if it comes out, I can get a 7100 dirt cheap over there !! Of course dependent on the specs I may go for the 7200 instead ...
 
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