Subject too dark...

WayneF

Senior Member
I'm indeed always correcting in post since my shots always are a bit bright.

Also based on your black bag picture and comments, and this too, it clearly seems you must be using an uncalibrated LCD monitor to judge it. LCD is notoriously too bright (easy electronic amplification), which causes us to misjudge exposure of our pictures. But you can turn the LCD monitor down.
Specifically, monitor calibration will determine the right amount to turn them down. Calibration involves hanging a sensor over the screen, and running software that shows specific colors/tones, and using the sensor to measure the actual screen result, and then it adjusts the video driver response so the result is as expected, for those known tones.

My notion is to also set the Nikon camera rear LCD brightness to -1, to better match what my calibrated LCD monitor shows.


But these days it is a digital conversion done by each camera itself. As such, light-metering of the past seems very outdated. If they still use it, there must be a good reason for that.

Really funny. The reason is that it is not outdated, it is all we have. You are just not up to speed yet. It will come soon, but you will have to try a little. Stay with it.

My metering link has a quote from the classic Kodak information, which says:

"A reflected-light meter reading is influenced by both how much light there is in the scene and how reflective the subject is. The meter will indicate less exposure for a subject that reflects little light, even if the two subject are in the same scene and in the same light. Because reflected-light meters are designed to make all subjects appear average in brightness, the brightness equivalent to medium gray, they suggest camera settings that will overexpose (make too light) very dark subjects and underexpose (make too dark) very light subjects."

Metering is a skill, to be learned. Only beginners imagine the camera ought to be able to do it well. But it is not very hard, the photographers experience tells him it will be about like last time in a similar situation. We learn fast (if we get started right).

The actual metering problem is that we don't have a little man to go in the light meter, who's human brain actually can recognize a black cat in a coal mine vs the polar bear on the snow. Then his experience would just know how the picture ought to turn out. But the dumb meter chip has absolutely no clue about cats or bears, or even white or black, and all it can do is to seek a middle gray result. for anything it sees.

However, digital now means we do have the man to look at the camera LCD, and his experience knows (if he is clever enough to look).

So far, you have learned that middle gray result is obviously true, but you seem to have trouble acknowledging it as being the system. But it is. :) We can easily learn to use that information (what we obviously see when we first walk up to the scene), to get the first try closer. This worked fine for film for many decades.

Incident meters do meter the actual light source, and specifically are not affected by the subjects reflectance properties. They do a tremendously better job (regarding accurate camera exposure), but they cannot go in a camera, and are more awkward to use.
 
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J-see

Senior Member
You can take overexposure to a limit only. Beyond that the highlights will be blown, with no possibility to recover. I have found that in my D3300 overexposure to +1EV can be recovered, beyond that no. Of course there are times when I am shooting flowers, and the sky get blown, but that does not matter to me as I am after the flower not the sky, especially if I meter for sky and get noise in the flower.

Today I carried out at test to check the noise at all the ISO setting - 100 to Hi1 (25,000). Upto ISO 1600 the correctly exposed areas were quite noise free, 3200 barely some noise at 6400 quite bad. In shadows there is noise after ISO 400, and in deep shadows even at ISO 100. That means that shadows upto -5EV or -6EV have low noise and after that noise starts showing.

The good thing is that at high ISO I can use higher speed for fast moving birds or animals and get a shot, which I would miss at lower ISO, a good enough compromise.

Did you check them at 100%? At 1600 ISO a fully sun lit flower correctly exposed and you already see the color noise appear. It's degrading fast for the D3300 once you go to 100% In shadowy parts I don't even go to 400 no more.

Of course for me 100% matters slightly more since there's a lot of cropping at 1:1.
 
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J-see

Senior Member
Also based on your black bag picture and comments, and this too, it clearly seems you must be using an uncalibrated LCD monitor to judge it. LCD is notoriously too bright (easy electronic amplification), which causes us to misjudge exposure of our pictures. But you can turn the LCD monitor down.
Specifically, monitor calibration will determine the right amount to turn them down. Calibration involves hanging a sensor over the screen, and running software that shows specific colors/tones, and using the sensor to measure the actual screen result, and then it adjusts the video driver response so the result is as expected, for those known tones.

I have always calibrated my monitor even when not using graphic soft. It's calibrated as good as it gets when only using the eye, buttons and sliders. I even take care to not do post when there's stray light hitting my screen.

Even if not calibrated perfectly, it wouldn't matter when I check the histograms. I went through some that survived deletion and there's good and there's bad. Most of the bad have been deleted so it's hard to see what goes on when but I'm seriously testing that part of the cam these days so I should know any problem after that.
 

J-see

Senior Member
I shot a euro-bill with the macro on a tripod using exposure compensation -1, 0 and +1. Then in LR I adjusted that compensation again and checked the results.

After staring that long at the 100% details until I feared my eyes would bleed, I can't find any relevant quality difference between them. As long as the exposure is within range, it doesn't seem to matter much. +2 or -2 compensation will be another matter since that will make it move to the extremes too much.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
You are not saying you cannot see any difference in +1 and -1 compensation? It obviously should be a large difference, I'd say relatively huge.

Two thoughts:

Are you letting Lightroom do automatic adjustment? So that you never see what came out of the camera? IMO, that is really not the way to ever learn anything about exposure.

Compensation affects metered exposures. If in camera manual mode M, it doesn't do anything - it does change the meter reading, but it cannot change manual exposure settings from what you have set (exception is with Auto ISO, which can change ISO for the new meter reading).

I cannot think of any other possibilities.

But upon rethinking it, I think you are saying that Raw can modify the exposure one stop without issue. I would agree with that. Obviously clipping ought to be avoided, but depending what it is, we can suffer a little without big problems.

As to boosting underexposure, that is essentially all higher ISO does too.
 
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J-see

Senior Member
But upon rethinking it, I think you are saying that Raw can modify the exposure one stop without issue. I would agree with that. Obviously clipping ought to be avoided, but depending what it is, we can suffer a little without big problems.

As to boosting underexposure, that is essentially all higher ISO does too.

Yes it was to check if there was a quality difference when normalizing exposure. When the shot is balanced +1, 0 or -1 are options without any concern for loss. One stop more likely results into clipping. Evidently the unprocessed RAW versions differed greatly.

To me the 1 exposure compensation makes quite the difference since I can invest that in shutter.

What was interesting too was that there are slight exposure differences between all shots when shooting continuous. It isn't much but even in a controlled environment none are identical.
 

aroy

Senior Member
Did you check them at 100%? At 1600 ISO a fully sun lit flower correctly exposed and you already see the color noise appear. It's degrading fast for the D3300 once you go to 100% In shadowy parts I don't even go to 400 no more.

Of course for me 100% matters slightly more since there's a lot of cropping at 1:1.
Here are the shots at 100%

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ESC_3944b.jpg

ESC_3945b.jpg
 

J-see

Senior Member
In the shadows the noise is easy to see but it's harder in the green areas since they have a noisy structure. I shot a more uniform colored range. Any color noise stands out more in those.

I checked the continuous shots to see what caused the exposure difference and when shooting A, the cam adjusts the shutter time during the continuous shots even while everything remains identical. I had three series and all three showed differences in speed like 1/15s-1/20s or 1/8s-1/10s. It shows the metering has some range.
 
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