Starter light set for new business. Your opinion is appreciated!

Dziadzi19

Senior Member
Hi, Friends, I am thinking about starting my own local photography business. I am going to start by photographing my own grandchildren. I see this lighting set up and am curious if it would be adequate for my initial plans. If things work out, I would consider buying a better system down the line. I would appreciate your comments.......thanks, Frank! :)

Looks like I forgot to post the site listing. Thanks for bringing it to my attention............I have a bad case of CRS. :(

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160972138510?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
 
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RockyNH_RIP

Senior Member
Hi, Friends, I am thinking about starting my own local photography business. I am going to start by photographing my own grandchildren. I see this lighting set up and am curious if it would be adequate for my initial plans. If things work out, I would consider buying a better system down the line. I would appreciate your comments.......thanks, Frank! :)


Frank, what system are you looking at???

Pat in NH
 

pedroj

Senior Member
Cannot be of help without any information on the kit your looking at...I bought a kit from hong kong several years back for about $400..

It allows me to shoot at F8 and 1/125 shutter speed...No hickups in the time I've had it...
 

Dziadzi19

Senior Member
Thanks, Alan...........I just edited my posting.

Cannot be of help without any information on the kit your looking at...I bought a kit from hong kong several years back for about $400..

It allows me to shoot at F8 and 1/125 shutter speed...No hickups in the time I've had it...
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Hi, Friends, I am thinking about starting my own local photography business. I am going to start by photographing my own grandchildren. I see this lighting set up and am curious if it would be adequate for my initial plans. If things work out, I would consider buying a better system down the line. I would appreciate your comments.......thanks, Frank! :)

I'm sorry to be the one to have to say it. Inexpensive to try, and it should work OK for inanimate tabletop work (where slow shutter speeds work), but it will be pretty dim lights for portraits of people. It says 200 watts equivalent. Back in the day when we used 500 watt photoflood bulbs, we had to use f/2.8 and too-slow shutter speed, still up very close. Modern digital cameras today can use high ISO, but it won't be anything like flash.

To appreciate the difference, it should be very instructive if you can rig up a quick test using a regular 150 watt bulb in a cheap clampon reflector, to evaluate how well f/2.8 and 1/60 second ISO 400 can capture a picture at only 3 feet. Flash will be a day and night difference.

Stop and contemplate some of the obvious details. Look at the picture. Most of this bulbs light will come out sideways, totally missing the umbrella altogether, just filling the room with stray spill. It will be a disappointing solution for portraits of people.
 

riverside

Senior Member
I'm sorry to be the one to have to say it. Inexpensive to try, and it should work OK for inanimate tabletop work (where slow shutter speeds work), but it will be pretty dim lights for portraits of people. It says 200 watts equivalent. Back in the day when we used 500 watt photoflood bulbs, we had to use f/2.8 and too-slow shutter speed, still up very close. Modern digital cameras today can use high ISO, but it won't be anything like flash.

To appreciate the difference, it should be very instructive if you can rig up a quick test using a regular 150 watt bulb in a cheap clampon reflector, to evaluate how well f/2.8 and 1/60 second ISO 400 can capture a picture at only 3 feet. Flash will be a day and night difference.

Stop and contemplate some of the obvious details. Look at the picture. Most of this bulbs light will come out sideways, totally missing the umbrella altogether, just filling the room with stray spill. It will be a disappointing solution for portraits of people.

Excellent analysis and advice. Available lighting from that package (and many others offered as starter kits) would be..... most challenging for portrait or tabletop work.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Check out Dirt Cheap Lighting.

If you're serious about starting up a studio business, you shouldn't even be looking at that stuff to be honest. If you're not willing to drop at least a grand into some workable studio gear, then you might want to reconsider. Decent studio lighting isn't cheap. You can get away with a lot using natural lighting and outdoor shots. But in a controlled studio environment, any lack of gear is going to make a huge difference in the quality of your work.
 

Dziadzi19

Senior Member
I appreciate all the replies thus far, my friends. I do have an SB-800 from my D90 days. If I use it (off camera) will the ebay setup be okay then, OR will I not even need the cheap studio lighting kit? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry to be the one to have to say it. Inexpensive to try, and it should work OK for inanimate tabletop work (where slow shutter speeds work), but it will be pretty dim lights for portraits of people. It says 200 watts equivalent. Back in the day when we used 500 watt photoflood bulbs, we had to use f/2.8 and too-slow shutter speed, still up very close. Modern digital cameras today can use high ISO, but it won't be anything like flash.

To appreciate the difference, it should be very instructive if you can rig up a quick test using a regular 150 watt bulb in a cheap clampon reflector, to evaluate how well f/2.8 and 1/60 second ISO 400 can capture a picture at only 3 feet. Flash will be a day and night difference.

Stop and contemplate some of the obvious details. Look at the picture. Most of this bulbs light will come out sideways, totally missing the umbrella altogether, just filling the room with stray spill. It will be a disappointing solution for portraits of people.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
I appreciate all the replies thus far, my friends. I do have an SB-800 from my D90 days. If I use it (off camera) will the ebay setup be okay then, OR will I not even need the cheap studio lighting kit? :rolleyes:

If you are going to do this to earn some income, consider increasing your budget and try the alienbees. They are reasonably priced and you'll be glad that you spend the extra cash to get better equipment for your work.

Paul C. Buff - AlienBees
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I appreciate all the replies thus far, my friends. I do have an SB-800 from my D90 days. If I use it (off camera) will the ebay setup be okay then, OR will I not even need the cheap studio lighting kit? :rolleyes:

The SB-800 would be great, but the ebay setup (continuous lights) will still be too weak to compete with it, to be useful.

I would suggest starting with hot shoe bounce flash, it can work great, and you have it. Maybe see some of the links below.

For doing more, see What Umbrellas Do about how to put the SB-800 into an umbrella. Then two flash would be great (Main and Fill), but with one, you can use a white reflector (inexpensive foam board from craft store works great) for fill. See one single light portrait - Google Search for the idea.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
Another option is a couple more SB700s stands and brollies so you are completely portable...

Alan - a few things to consider or point out when choosing strobes vs flash.

A Nikon SB 700 price is around $327.00

An Alien bee AB 800 is around $280.

Strobes can also be portable if you buy an external power supply battery which is additional $239.00

Paul C. Buff - Vagabond Portable Power

However, if the OP will be working from home or studio, the extra power supply is not required.

The strobes can also allow you to shoot at f8, 1/160, ISO 100. Something that the flash won't be able to deliver even with two or three SB 700.
 

FastGlass

Senior Member
You'll most likely need to gel you're speedlight to match the color temp of those lights. I would highly avoid the lights you're asking about. There the cheapest of the cheap. When I first started looking into studio lighting, I too was tempted at those $200-$400 units. Really consider spending a lot of money on you're strobes. Avoid continuous lighting and go for strobes having modeling lights. Much more output with strobes. You could also get a few more speedlights and use them as well but speedlights as far as ws goes. The 910 only puts out I think I read about 200 ws. Yes you can do a lot with 200 ws but you can do a lot more having 500-1000 ws.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
The 910 only puts out I think I read about 200 ws. Yes you can do a lot with 200 ws but you can do a lot more having 500-1000 ws.

The SB-800 is 75 watt seconds, and SB-910 is the same (except minor reflector differences). The continuous lights before are 200 watts.

But there is a huge difference in watts (continuous lights) and watt seconds (flash).

Speaking equivalents, but if a 200 watt equivalent continuous light is used with a 1/100 second shutter speed, then the camera sees 200 watts x 1/100 second = 2 watt seconds. This is the cumulative energy expended in that time duration, all that can be useful behind the shutter.

If the shutter speed is 1 full second, it sees 200x1 = 200 watt seconds, which is a lot of light, for inanimate objects, but which is unacceptably slow for pictures of people (who move).

The bigger speedlights (SB-800, SB-910) are 75 watt seconds, regardless of shutter speed (because their duration is faster than the shutter). So, there is a big difference between 2 ws and 75 ws and 200 ws.

My SB-800 (at 24mm zoom at ISO 200) meters f/11 plus 4/10 stop in 45 inch white reflected umbrella at four feet from fabric (which is pretty close, the light stand is at about 2 feet). Turning full power down would be good for recycle speed and battery, but still, this is very usable for portraits. Even groups at 10 feet will be very near f/8 (same umbrella, ISO 200). Flash can do this at any shutter speed up to maximum sync speed, typically 1/200 second.

My Alienbees B400 is 160 watt seconds, which will meter f/16 there, one more stop. Twice the watt seconds (75 to 160) is one stop (same effect as doubling ISO). I normally use the B400 in a large 40" softbox, close, at f/8 or f/10, turned down to around 1/4 power or less. It is more than plenty indoors, but more would be needed outdoors, competing with the sun.

My Alienbees B800 is 320 watt seconds, and f/22 (one more stop).

Camera light meters can meter continuous lights, but cannot meter flash. So, we need to make other arrangements.

If using two speedlights for portraits, the Nikon Commander allows using TTL, which is self metering. There are pros and cons of this.

All studio flash is manual flash. Alienbees is a great choice - it is THE inexpensive choice that is still first rate gear and features.

If using manual flash for portraits, it will be very desirable (virtually essential) to also have a hand held incident flash meter, to set up the lights, the ratio between them. The more lights you have, the more necessary this is. This is about repeating your setup next time, with ease.

There is more info at the link below.
 
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Browncoat

Senior Member
Keep this in perspective, guys. The OP is asking if a $50 eBay CFE light bulb setup is good enough for a studio business. You starting throwing out stuff like watt seconds, and heads are going to start spinning and the guy is going to end up even more confused.

I appreciate all the replies thus far, my friends. I do have an SB-800 from my D90 days. If I use it (off camera) will the ebay setup be okay then, OR will I not even need the cheap studio lighting kit? :rolleyes:

Dziadzi19 - You need to do a lot more homework on studio lighting. A single SB-800 is not going to cut the mustard, nor is that cheap lighting kit, nor is the two of them combined.

Take a serious look at the AlienBees units, they're good. Myself and others here use them. Opinions on this will vary, but I believe you need at least:
  • ​x2 B800 units
  • x2 modifiers (softboxes or umbrellas)
  • x2 stands
  • x2 remote triggers (like PocketWizards)
You'll also want to get a stand for your SB-800 to be able to use it as a 3rd light. That's about a bare minimum studio setup for anyone even remotely serious about entering into the studio portrait business...and that's just the lighting. You'll also need to purchase at least one backdrop and stand to hold it.

​There's a lot more to this than just a $50 eBay kit.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Keep this in perspective, guys. The OP is asking if a $50 eBay CFE light bulb setup is good enough for a studio business. You starting throwing out stuff like watt seconds, and heads are going to start spinning and the guy is going to end up even more confused.

I realize everything has to be dumbed down today, but watt seconds easily explains why a 75 watt second speedlight is 37.5 times more light than 2 watt seconds continuous lights. That is more than 5 stops, lots more aperture and shutter speed, which comes in really handy, the difference between can and can't.

You need to do a lot more homework on studio lighting. A single SB-800 is not going to cut the mustard

Homework is good, but there sure are a lot of people that would strongly disagree about "one" speedlight. Esp all the wedding photographers selling pictures.

  • x2 remote triggers (like PocketWizards)

To substitute for a $50 ebay kit? IMO, that's the last thing needed, just an expensive frill.

I have two SB-800 and four Alienbees (and no PocketWizards), and sure, more gear is good and versatile, but one speedlight can do a lot. We have to start somewhere. We should not discourage starting.
 
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Browncoat

Senior Member
Homework is good, but there sure are a lot of people that would strongly disagree about "one" speedlight. Esp all the wedding photographers selling pictures.

Anyone can call themselves a photographer and charge people money for photos. That's not the hard part, Craig's List is full of these fauxtographers. I can hand my 12 yr old son a box camera, and he'd do a better job than most of them. Most of those "wedding photographers selling pictures" won't even be around a year from now.

IMO, that's the last thing needed, just an expensive frill.

I have two SB-800 and four Alienbees (and no PocketWizards), and sure, more gear is good and versatile, but one speedlight can do a lot. We have to start somewhere. We should not discourage starting.

I absolutely agree that there's a lot you can do with just one speedlight. 100%. But one speedlight does not a studio photographer make. For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever discouraged people from starting. I do, however, discourage people from setting themselves up for failure at every opportunity.
 

riverside

Senior Member
I've seen some very impressive portrait work produced using a single umbrella/stand/speedlite and existing background. Work that would put many self-described studio photographers to shame, including those with studios containing enough lighting gear, wall mounted paper background dispensers, tethered exposure stations and electrical amperage supply to support four photographers working at the same time. More gear based on subjective (brand) opinion isn't always the best solution for all circumstances.
 
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