Should there be a class action suit against Nikon for the D600

[hark]

Re: Class Action Lawsuit Against Nikon

From my own personal research, it is my opinion that there is no evidence of an oil problem from any reputable source that I have read. I have seen many articles that speculate that it must be oil that accumulates on the sensor, and this causes the impending dust accumulation. But this is speculation, not fact. And Nikon admittedly denies the accusation that there is an oil problem. They have never admitted that there wasn't a dust problem.

The fact that there is a dust problem, though, has a lot of supporting evidence. A lawsuit should only address a dust issue and not an oil issue.

You are entitled to your opinion. That said, your opinion is nothing more than speculation either especially since you don't own a D600 and never had to deal with the issue.

What I can state as fact is that whatever accumulated on my D600's sensor couldn't be blown off. And when I attempted a wet cleaning, it couldn't be removed. The spots were stuck on or stained the sensor somehow. I did the blower/wet cleaning then took a test shot only to find even more spots on the sensor. In one sitting, I went through this process about 5 times to no avail using the Eclipse solution and Sensor Swabs. IMHO I cannot believe the problem was just dust. Many of the spots were very translucent and almost perfectly round. I tried the same process again at a later date and still didn't have any success removing the spots.

​Reading about a problem and dealing with it firsthand are two very different things. I will never believe the problem was simply dust.

 

[nmccamy]

Re: Class Action Lawsuit Against Nikon

About the oil issue. If you can prove to a judge, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there is an oil issue, more power to you! Congratulations! You will probably win.

But my research shows no evidence of an oil issue and only speculation. That doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist. Perhaps there is somebody out there that HAS proven it and can provide conclusive evidence in a court of law. Your lawsuit would be significantly bolstered by this expert witness.

Of course, all of this is moot anyway. You'll probably never get a dime. But at least it will feel like you're doing SOMETHING. And perhaps, Nikon might listen and not turn a deaf ear.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Re: Class Action Lawsuit Against Nikon

But my research shows no evidence of an oil issue and only speculation.

Well if YOUR research shows there was no problem, I guess that's that and we can all go home now. All of you '600 owners who were reporting oil/dust on the sensor issues *cough*Back Door Hippie*cough* are just... I dunno, delusional I suppose. Sure am glad to have that whole issue wrapped up!

Perhaps there is somebody out there that HAS proven it and can provide conclusive evidence in a court of law.

You make it sound like this is a criminal case. It's not; it would be a matter for the civil-courts to decide and more specifically it's a class-action being discussed. That being the case the rules of evidence are significantly different. And by "different" I mean "lower". Things like repair records would be subpoenaed from Nikon and that, I think, would be pretty damning evidence in and of itself. I could probably put my hands on at least a half-dozen invoices for '600 repairs for the photography area of my division if I wanted to pull the records. Dollars to donuts every last one them indicates shutter repair. While that may appear anecdotal to you, it is, I can assure you, the stuff class action suits are made of.

 

[nmccamy]

Yes, class action suites have a much lower burden of proof than criminal cases.

I just used the "beyond a reasonable doubt" phrase for dramatic purposes! It just sounds cool! Though at the cost of making me look like a moron, which, for me, is par! Though I do have a mental illness, so perhaps I shouldn't be too harsh on myself.

 

[papa2jaja]

Unfortunately Nikon is not fixing every camera. It is true that they do something with the cameras without issue, but a few shots later the spots come back for most users, from what I've read usually even after a second repair attempt. My D600 still produces oil spots after more than 4000 actuations. My D600 is unusable for me. I've bought a D800 which works great; but the D600 in my humble opinion Nikon should take back without much discussion. I'm not trying to sell it because I'm ashamed to sell someone such a camera. Apparently Nikon are less ashamed to let me keep it.

 

[NVSteve]

Re: Class Action Lawsuit Against Nikon

From my own personal research, it is my opinion that there is no evidence of an oil problem from any reputable source that I have read.

And what "reputable" sources have you read? I know of a few "reputable" sites that have all pointed out the problem (lensrentals, DPR, etc.). It's hard when someone from the outside tries to look in and only winds up with people (non-owners of a D600) making claims that the issue does not exist, that all of us who have experienced it/currently have the issue, are full of it, delusional or what have you. I've seen more crap flung about various forums from the non-owners and I really question where all of that doubt and disbelief stems from.

 

[hrphotography]

I think this is a great Idea.
We should complain on their facebook page about it as well. This is our right!

 

[hrphotography]

I just read someone said that Nikon repaired cameras for free?
are u kidding? It is a $2000 dollar camera and under warranty.
they HAVE to repair it for FREE. We are living in USA for Godsake.....thats how it is supposed to be. Dell, Apple, HP and many other companies even pay the shipping from user to service centre and back. Nikon does NOT pay shipping from user to service centre unless u exchange 15 emails with them!
In my opinion Horrible customer service!!!!

 

[Marcel]

I think this is a great Idea.
We should complain on their facebook page about it as well. This is our right!

I think you should, but please do not generalize. I have a D600 and for me it's been fine. I've learned to clean the sensor and it's not showing dust anymore after some 6000 shots. So, don't count on me to support this class action.

 

[hrphotography]

Thank you Marcel. Let me be clear, by "we" I mean people who have dust/oil problem in their D600 and are annoyed by it.

 

[Marcel]

Thank you Marcel. Let me be clear, by "we" I mean people who have dust/oil problem in their D600 and are annoyed by it.

I guess I can consider myself lucky. But, the one thing I think people should really complain about is the way Nikon is treating their customers. The service they try to give is more of a joke than anything else. If there is one thing they could do better with, it's the way they treat customers. And for that, I wish there was a law.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

You want to know how to get heard by the people who can ACTUALLY do something? Here's what you do...

Call Nikon customer service and get a live body on the phone. Ask this person how, if you thought you had received some TRULY OUTSTANDING customer service, how you would address a letter so that it would get to the President of Nikon. Lay it on THICK... Explain you do NOT want this letter intercepted by some low-level, middle manager, oh no! You want this letter to go straight to the top because the customer service you received was JUST... THAT... GOOD. Again, lay this on THICK, be over the freaking top and be sure you make this person understand how serious you are that you want this letter to land in the hands of The Big Man (or Woman). Be excited... Be as persistent as you need to be to get this information. When you get this critical information, politely hang up. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT tip you hand at this point! You did NOT say you had, in fact, received excellent customer service... You said "IF" you felt you had, how would you get your letter to someone at the top... The fact of the matter is you didn't, and you are going to use this information to complain, but this "if" relieves you of any ethical "sticky wickets" that could possibly keep you awake at night if you happened to be burdened by a conscience.

With the proper address now in hand, hand write or type up an actual, hard-copy, explanatory letter and address it as you were instructed. This letter should be calm and rational; it should be well composed, not shot off in thirty rash seconds. Take your time and really explain what happened, be specific but keep it brief and stay on topic. Just like Joe Friday, "Just the facts, ma'am...". I would suggest you let someone else you know and trust read it over before sending it; making any changes they suggest knowing they are an objective third party. I can not even begin to tell you how effective this technique has been for me in the past in getting matters resolved. The key, is getting your story to the right person. Good luck.

.....

 

[hark]

I just read someone said that Nikon repaired cameras for free?
are u kidding? It is a $2000 dollar camera and under warranty.
they HAVE to repair it for FREE. We are living in USA for Godsake.....thats how it is supposed to be. Dell, Apple, HP and many other companies even pay the shipping from user to service centre and back. Nikon does NOT pay shipping from user to service centre unless u exchange 15 emails with them!
In my opinion Horrible customer service!!!!

The way it was explained to me is that the customer has to pay the shipping to Nikon the first time. If it is determined to be a warranty problem, Nikon will pay for return shipping. I *think* there is approximately a 6-month time frame that if the problem still continues and they determine the item needs additional servicing, they will provide a pre-paid shipping label.

 

[rocketman122]

ITs not only the D600 thats causing people to feel betrayed and let down. the SB900/910, the D800 AF issue the 24-70 light leak and zoom stiffness issue. these are expensive products.
I couldnt be happier if there was a CALS against them. they never acknowledged the problem, then never apologized for the defects. im not so worried about hurting nikon. theyll be ok, but me as the tiny person was hurt much more so then them, with time and frustration and anger and feeling betrayed. so I have no guilt when considering taking nikon to court. QC has gone downhill and the managerial staff needs to be changed. theyre doing a crap job the last few years.

its obvious theyre trying to recoup lost sales from the floods with that plastic 58 1.4 they call an ode to the noct. cheap plastic $1800 lens with slow autofocus and cheap lens hood. thats a ripoff.

I was happy when I saw the last 2 quarterly revenues take a hit. when your pocket takes a hit, then you stand up and listen. theyve been riding people for way to long with these crazy prices and bad QC.

In this crappy economy, people deserve to get their moneys worth.

 

[hrphotography]

when your pocket takes a hit, then you stand up and listen. theyve been riding people for way to long with these crazy prices and bad QC.

In this crappy economy, people deserve to get their moneys worth.

​agree with you 100%

 

[BackdoorArts]

In this crappy economy, people deserve to get their moneys worth.

In this crappy economy everyone is pinching pennies, so you only get what you fight for and nothing more - because nobody is giving anything away.

I had a bad D600. Nikon handled it in 2 trips through warranty service. It sucked being without my camera for 7 weeks, but they did their job. I was an early adopter and jumped on a great price last December, and being first on the block often comes at a cost. I accept that, as do many other D600 owners who experienced the problem. The system, such as it is, works, and I have a camera that works as well as anyone who never went through this. I paid $2000 with the kit lens and hell yes, I got my money's worth.

If somehow the numbers even justified a lawsuit, which I strongly expect they don't, you'd need to prove that Nikon knowingly foisted crap on the market and then did nothing to fix it. They obviously haven't done the second part, and good luck proving the first. We're a nation of whiners who expect personal justice for next to nothing.

If you bought a D600 blind to this issue you either went in knee-jerk, before any real feedback came in (like me), or you didn't do your research, and either way you're the only one to blame. And if you did your research then you either ignored the warnings or thought you'd be OK because you "got a more recent unit" - even though no one ever said the problem was fixed. Again, no one to blame but yourself. If you want to feel bad, go ahead, but it's a private pitty party. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, Nikon is working within the parameters of the warranty agreement you accepted when you purchased their product, and while you might want them with all your heart to treat you like someone special and fix your particular situation differently, they are under no obligation to do so, nor should they be. Want to bitch? Do it after you get it back for the 3rd or 4th time and it's still not working and they're not willing to do anything more than have you send it in again. Expecting anything else just tacks on "unreasonable" to the "unlucky" you're already wearing.

I've said it, and others have as well - pick up the phone and speak to someone in Customer Relations. Let them know the details of your situation in a calm and respectful manner. Let them know that this is a make or break deal for you in terms of your relationship with the company (if that's true), and let them know about what you've spent and plan to spend in the recent past/future with them (if that's true) and how their part in this will impact any future dealings you have with the company. Or just sell the lot of it and go somewhere else. As has been mentioned, money talks. Having worked with customer relations in the past, however, you need to know that some of the best decisions a company can make is knowing which customers to let go, and an angry customer with no real history with the company is one of them.

 

[hark]

In this crappy economy everyone is pinching pennies, so you only get what you fight for and nothing more - because nobody is giving anything away.

I had a bad D600. Nikon handled it in 2 trips through warranty service. It sucked being without my camera for 7 weeks, but they did their job. I was an early adopter and jumped on a great price last December, and being first on the block often comes at a cost. I accept that, as do many other D600 owners who experienced the problem. The system, such as it is, works, and I have a camera that works as well as anyone who never went through this. I paid $2000 with the kit lens and hell yes, I got my money's worth.

If somehow the numbers even justified a lawsuit, which I strongly expect they don't, you'd need to prove that Nikon knowingly foisted crap on the market and then did nothing to fix it. They obviously haven't done the second part, and good luck proving the first. We're a nation of whiners who expect personal justice for next to nothing.

If you bought a D600 blind to this issue you either went in knee-jerk, before any real feedback came in (like me), or you didn't do your research, and either way you're the only one to blame. And if you did your research then you either ignored the warnings or thought you'd be OK because you "got a more recent unit" - even though no one ever said the problem was fixed. Again, no one to blame but yourself. If you want to feel bad, go ahead, but it's a private pitty party. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, Nikon is working within the parameters of the warranty agreement you accepted when you purchased their product, and while you might want them with all your heart to treat you like someone special and fix your particular situation differently, they are under no obligation to do so, nor should they be. Want to bitch? Do it after you get it back for the 3rd or 4th time and it's still not working and they're not willing to do anything more than have you send it in again. Expecting anything else just tacks on "unreasonable" to the "unlucky" you're already wearing.

I've said it, and others have as well - pick up the phone and speak to someone in Customer Relations. Let them know the details of your situation in a calm and respectful manner. Let them know that this is a make or break deal for you in terms of your relationship with the company (if that's true), and let them know about what you've spent and plan to spend in the recent past/future with them (if that's true) and how their part in this will impact any future dealings you have with the company. Or just sell the lot of it and go somewhere else. As has been mentioned, money talks. Having worked with customer relations in the past, however, you need to know that some of the best decisions a company can make is knowing which customers to let go, and an angry customer with no real history with the company is one of them.

Yes, yes, YES! What you do and how you act are REALLY important here. If someone has a problem with their Nikon gear, go through their web site and file a claim. BE SURE to upload photos/receipts which substantiate your claim. IMHO it would be better to use proper punctuation (use capital letters when appropriate) and don't use text lingo.

If the first service fails to produce results, then get on the phone and request to speak with a supervisor. Keep your cool and don't use slang, and for pete's sake, DON'T drop the f*bomb. ::what:: First impressions are really important.

Be sure you specify what you want done. It doesn't mean they will do as you ask, and as Jake mentioned, you might be charged if they don't agree something needs to be fixed.

The first photo I took after getting the camera returned was a test shot. It's hard to believe there would be that much dust/oil just from mounting a lens IF you are careful and do it quickly with the camera facing downwards. Keep your cool throughout all contact. Most likely the issue WON'T be resolved the first or second time the camera is sent in for repair; however, if you stay on top of it, act professionally, and show proof of the problem, that's the way to get their attention. Sure it is time-consuming and you will be without your camera for a while especially if it goes in 3 times like mine did.

And if you've done all this and still don't get anywhere, there are many consumer reporters and agencies out there. Most likely someone will help you out PROVIDING you act professionally and courteously. Who really enjoys dealing with people who are short-tempered and low-class?

 

[RandyMyers]

In my opinion Nikon should offer all owners of D600s a trade (at little to no cost; $100 at most) for a D610. It is obvious that the D610 is the same camera as the D600 with a repaired shutter. I love the photos that my D600 produces, but I do feel betrayed by Nikon. For most of us who purchased a prosumer FX camera it was a very expensive camera and we feel Nikon basically hung us out to dry.

 

[hrphotography]

I agree


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[480sparky]

Well, here ya go.