ohkphoto
Snow White
Thank you for putting this so succinctly and wisely . . . I agree with all of the above, including the kitchen comment
Photo Critique!
- Thread starter WhiteLight
- Start date
Thank you for putting this so succinctly and wisely . . . I agree with all of the above, including the kitchen comment
Something they do on Photo.net is to place photos up for critique and let the members grade them (1-7) on Originality and Creativity (they have dropped the Originality rating) and then leave the image open to critique. I think that perhaps there should be something similar, with a separate entry for "pros" and "cons" of the image.
WhiteLight
Senior Member
Photo.net is a little (ok, maybe more than a little) cliquish. I have been on it for about 10 years now. Once people there get used to seeing images of yours, they are more forthcoming with critiques. The rating system can tend to be a popularity contest, unfortunately. If you gave a really scathing (or at least they perceived it as such) critique of their image, then they can give you a 2 or 3 rating on it out of spite, which drags your average down. That is exactly what happened to me on an image I posted a couple of weeks ago. You would think people would be more mature than that, but since they did away with the breakdown of who gave what rating, it remains anonymous. I try to give an in-depth critique of the images as well as an "artist's misconception" of what I am talking about by taking their image and reworking it in PS. The same thing I do here. If the criticism is constructive, and mine always is, then if the photographer is open to other's ideas, it can be a very productive forum. If they are thin skinned, then at least as far as I am concerned, don't post an image for critique.
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I agree with you 100%. I even sent an email to P.N's owner to that very effect. I told him that if you rate it, you should have to justify it.
Yesterday my 5yr old excitedly told me how he knew what 12+13 was. I saw 10yr old coming towards us with a look of disdain and mouth opening. I quickly placed hand over 10yr olds mouth, grabbed a piece of scrap paper and scribbled 384x34 and said bet you can't answer that. I then sat with 5yr old let him tell me the answer, told him how great it is that he knew that and then gave him 12+15 and waited while he figured it out. 5yr old felt great that he was learning and was ready for the next challenge. My 10yr old was kept busy, felt great when he got the correct answer and was ready for his next challenge as well. It became fun for both of them.
If I'd allowed the 10yr old to show his disdain at the 5yr olds accomplishment he wouldn't have learned anything nor would he have wanted to try something harder. The 10yr is brash and sure of his great knowledge but forgets that at 5yrs old 12+13 wasn't as easy as it is at 10yrs old because he has 5yrs more learning. We all learn in steps and if there was nothing to challenge the 10yr old he'd meddle and show his disdain to the 5yr old who is doing great for his level. The same is true if there is nothing to challenge the 5yr old he'd be messing in the 10yr olds work and annoying the 10yr old.
A place maybe in learning photography section like "how can I improve" where someone places an image or a comparative of 2 images to see where they can improve and find the next challenge so they're working towards the critique section. An area where it is understood that there is no head patting but true sharing of knowledge and challenging each other to improve.
If I'd allowed the 10yr old to show his disdain at the 5yr olds accomplishment he wouldn't have learned anything nor would he have wanted to try something harder. The 10yr is brash and sure of his great knowledge but forgets that at 5yrs old 12+13 wasn't as easy as it is at 10yrs old because he has 5yrs more learning. We all learn in steps and if there was nothing to challenge the 10yr old he'd meddle and show his disdain to the 5yr old who is doing great for his level. The same is true if there is nothing to challenge the 5yr old he'd be messing in the 10yr olds work and annoying the 10yr old.
A place maybe in learning photography section like "how can I improve" where someone places an image or a comparative of 2 images to see where they can improve and find the next challenge so they're working towards the critique section. An area where it is understood that there is no head patting but true sharing of knowledge and challenging each other to improve.
Nothing gets under my skin more than the people who post "great image. bravo!!" and little or nothing else. It has absolutely no value to me whatsoever. I would rather someone tell me what they like about the image and what they think could be improved. To that end, when I submit an image for critique, I preface it with "meaningful and thought out critiques welcome"
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Well if there's any wisdom in what I said, it was purely accidental, but thank you. I thought your post, the one I was replying to, was spot on. I don't really have much else to say, really, on this topic other than how much I support the idea of a serious critique section/sub-forum, because I really, REALLY want to support that idea. I wish I had some awesome suggestions about how to structure such a sub-forum, or a process by which that critique would be acceptable to all, but I do not. I think any such venture would have to be looked at as much more process than event. Things would have to be tried, possibly discarded and new things tried until a successful formula was arrived at. I guess I simply envision a sub-forum where mature, meaningful dialogue can take place and PIT's (Photographers In Training) such as myself can get honest, objective critique and meaningful feedback; because without it, those wishing to improve their skills are, really, just spinning their wheels in my opinion.Thank you for putting this so succinctly and wisely . . . I agree with all of the above, including the kitchen comment
There's a common conception that, "practice makes perfect" but I have learned from learning and teaching things unrelated to what we do here, that practice most definitely does NOT make perfect: Perfect practice makes perfect and, without direction from someone standing outside of our Self, someone in possession of an objectivity we can not have about our own work, to point out our mistakes, we are pretty much doomed to repeat them. I fully admit I have no aspirations to be the next Worlds Great Photographer, but I do seriously wish to improve my skills and I can't do that without good critique.
I look forward to offering whatever I can in helping to further a critique sub-forum here because I really, really want to support that idea. Really. I really really do. For real.
Exactly if I'd patted 5yr old on the head and offered nothing to challenge him he'd LEARN NOTHING the same if I'd ignored him. If he'd gotten it wrong I would have helped him find the answer and set him up for the next challenge. Telling him he was right if he got it wrong is NOT HELPFUL nor is outright telling him everything is wrong without pointing out a way for him to find the answer. If the 10yr old got it wrong I would have done the same thing but I'd have challenged his wrong answer far more than I would the 5yr old because he has the confidence and is looking for that challenge
Okay, so I think we have come to a consensus that there should be at least two separate places to put photos for purposes of evaluation. How about we do this...
Photo critique - detailed analysis of photos
Photo poster must provide:
Photo critiquer must provide:
Photo feedback - more general "I like it, I don't like it"
Photo poster must post one image
Replies must rate the image on a scale of 1-5.
Photo critique - detailed analysis of photos
Photo poster must provide:
- one image
- EXIF data
- Artistic intent/summary of the photo
- Specifically what feedback is wanted
Photo critiquer must provide:
- a detailed explanation of what is good/bad
- rate the image on a scale of 1-5 for each of the 12 elements.
Photo feedback - more general "I like it, I don't like it"
Photo poster must post one image
Replies must rate the image on a scale of 1-5.
ohkphoto
Snow White
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Yeah, I think I can get behind this... Sounds good on "paper", anyway.
Thanks Mr. Admin Guy!
Thanks Mr. Admin Guy!
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
In place yet? I like it.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
May I pretty please, with sugar substitute on top, implore The Powers That Be in the following:
That posts that do not meet this criteria be IMMEDIATELY TERMINATED WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE, EVERY... SINGLE... TIME. NO WARNINGS, NO MERCY, FROM DAY ONE.
Empower every Mod/Super Mod every cook and bottle washer with this Elite Executive Privilege if need to be in order to enforce this, pleeeeeeeeeease.
This is my only request of you and I thank you in advance.
...
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Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
New system being put in place now that will solve the problem. Also as the way it looks now there will be two sections depending on the level you want. ones that post without the required info will get moved to the feedback section as soon as one of us sees it. Technical details are being worked out now.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Verily, thou doth rock.
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
Not me, jdeg is da man. not even dirty diapers slow him down.......Much.
