Mob Rule & Shooting In Public - A Horror Story +1
- Thread starter BackdoorArts
- Start date
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I let it go the first time, but "dirty hippy" twice?! Hell my hair is as short as it's been since grade school, and I'd showered. Careful with your slander there, fella!!
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I'm not going to feel better about any of this until I get some tenable legal answers and/or advice on the situation. I got a copy of the Investigation Report from the police yesterday, and while reading through the report makes it obvious I did nothing wrong and cooperated fully, the report does hold my name, DL# and address as the "suspect" in a "suspicious person call" dealing with kids getting on a bus. What the hell that means the next time a cop pulls up my name for any reason, I don't know, but I can tell you that the information could certainly color me in a bad light depending on the attitude and experience of the officer and anyone else involved. So, I'm not getting in touch with lawyers to see if I can somehow get my information redacted and the incident expunged, but I have no idea what that's going to take.
And I haven't even mentioned the fact that the entire story told me on the side of the road by the cop dealing with the nature of the person making the complaint bears no similarity whatsoever to what is actually in the report. There is no mention of a kid, school principal or worried mother, only a paranoid bus driver who managed to think I was "taking photos of children getting on a school bus" when I was standing on the opposite side of the bus from the one kid that did get on making that very accusation impossible. It's gonna be a long time before I "feel better".
Bob Blaylock
Senior Member
I had some distant memory of coming across a concise, one-page document from an attorney regarding the rights of photographers.
A bit of Googling, and I found it at http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf.
Bert P. Krages II is apparently an attorney who specializes in issues related to photography, and has produced this handy reference for the benefit of photographers. I attach a copy, here.
Based on my own reading of this document, and your account of how you were treated, it appears to me that the manner in which you were treated was, in fact, quite blatantly illegal. It's legitimate to stop and ask you what you're doing, but you have no obligation to respond. Once any effort was made to detain you, or to cause you to fear that you were under threat of legal prosecution, the line appears to have been crossed into illegal conduct on the part of the officers involved. You might want to consider speaking with an attorney. You might have sufficient basis for a lawsuit.
I should disclaim, I suppose, that I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.
View attachment ThePhotographersRight.pdf
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Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
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Further suggested reading: Legal Handbook for Photographers: The Rights and Liabilities of Making Images
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Further suggested reading: Legal Handbook for Photographers: The Rights and Liabilities of Making Images
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BackdoorArts
Senior Member
Knowing your rights is indeed important - even critical when you're out on the street.
But here's the problem - they make no difference in some situations, the one faced by the couple in the linked story in particular. How do you think a mob will react when, after they've accused you of taking photos of their children and mention the fact that they have a gun in the back seat, you tell them that it's within your constitutional rights to take photos of whomever you want in a public place? You can avoid arrest (though not detention nor the threat to your person or equipment) and prevail in the long run, but in the moment you need to keep a level head and make a measured response given the situation at hand.
As I said in my initial post, I hope that the couple in the story sues the folks in that town for civil rights violations. Cops have a job to do, and unless you're intentionally out to prove a point, antagonize and embarrass them then I've found that cooperation within reason is almost always the best option - just let them know that you know that you did nothing wrong up front, and why you know it. As for @$$holes, they can come out of the woodwork, so no matter what you're shooting remember that stupid is as stupid does.
But here's the problem - they make no difference in some situations, the one faced by the couple in the linked story in particular. How do you think a mob will react when, after they've accused you of taking photos of their children and mention the fact that they have a gun in the back seat, you tell them that it's within your constitutional rights to take photos of whomever you want in a public place? You can avoid arrest (though not detention nor the threat to your person or equipment) and prevail in the long run, but in the moment you need to keep a level head and make a measured response given the situation at hand.
As I said in my initial post, I hope that the couple in the story sues the folks in that town for civil rights violations. Cops have a job to do, and unless you're intentionally out to prove a point, antagonize and embarrass them then I've found that cooperation within reason is almost always the best option - just let them know that you know that you did nothing wrong up front, and why you know it. As for @$$holes, they can come out of the woodwork, so no matter what you're shooting remember that stupid is as stupid does.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
In a situation like the one described a call to the police would have absolutely been in order. I do agree wholeheartedly a level head and a calm demeanor would definitely be the best course, as it most always is. That was an ugly situation and personally, I would have had 911 on the horn. I think that alone could have cooled off the situation maybe would have gotten people thinking... Now, maybe they're thinking they're in the right and I'll wind up getting cuffed but I'd much rather be calmly asserting my right's in the presence of a cop than a collection of riled up soccer moms.
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Two things I would do if the situation escalated and I were threatened.
1. Take out my smart phone and start recording.
2. Use their own ignorance against them: Placate them by openly deleting the images. What the dolts don't know is it's stupendously easy to recover the images once I get home.
1. Take out my smart phone and start recording.
2. Use their own ignorance against them: Placate them by openly deleting the images. What the dolts don't know is it's stupendously easy to recover the images once I get home.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
Problems encountered with the prior two solutions...
1. Cellular dead zone. Texts were sent but wouldn't go out. And the morons said they called the cops.
2. They scrolled through ALL the images and showed them there were no photos of the kids and the morons wouldn't let them go and even talked of smashing their equipment.
3. The encounter WAS recorded, which is why we can see just how scary it was.
Hell, the first thing the cops did when they showed up was ask if the female photographer, who had been in tears for 20 minutes, was drunk!!
Reason cannot coexist with a mob mentality, which is why they need to be avoided at all costs. The problem is that mobs tend not to work on a schedule.
1. Cellular dead zone. Texts were sent but wouldn't go out. And the morons said they called the cops.
2. They scrolled through ALL the images and showed them there were no photos of the kids and the morons wouldn't let them go and even talked of smashing their equipment.
3. The encounter WAS recorded, which is why we can see just how scary it was.
Hell, the first thing the cops did when they showed up was ask if the female photographer, who had been in tears for 20 minutes, was drunk!!
Reason cannot coexist with a mob mentality, which is why they need to be avoided at all costs. The problem is that mobs tend not to work on a schedule.
SHAkers718
Senior Member
For the Challenge shooting sports, I thought it might be fun to go to the school early on a Saturday morning and take pictures of kids playing soccer (it would be free - no parking, no hassle). It even occurred to me that I would probably only use a zoom lens and get close-ups of legs kicking the ball. The soccer uniforms can be so bright and colorful. My son warned me that that would not be cool. But even if I had a child or grandchild of my own playing soccer, I suppose it would just not be cool to photograph other peoples' children. Hmmm. How do I ask them to stay out of my shot?
Also, another observation, I have seen a friend of a friend on FB who has a picture of her toddlers in the bathtub as her cover photo. First off, why? Weird. And second off, your profile picture is public even if your FB privacy settings are tight (for FB). Anyone searching a name similar to yours will find it. Once it's out there being circulated there's no getting it back. Very naive.
Also, another observation, I have seen a friend of a friend on FB who has a picture of her toddlers in the bathtub as her cover photo. First off, why? Weird. And second off, your profile picture is public even if your FB privacy settings are tight (for FB). Anyone searching a name similar to yours will find it. Once it's out there being circulated there's no getting it back. Very naive.
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Blade Canyon
Senior Member
Congratulations on the sale! Sorry about the police hassle. As others have said, if you had been using a phone, nobody would have thought a thing. That's what "normal" people use for pictures now. Our DSLRs will brand us as outliers.
Amen, brother! This is some bullsh!t and I'd be pissed off too!
