Mob Rule & Shooting In Public - A Horror Story +1
- Thread starter BackdoorArts
- Start date
I remember some story about a guy who just wanted to be nice to some kids and bought them some ice cream only to then get beaten by the parents because he must have been a perv.
If you're a single guy and a child walks up to you, it's almost wisest that you run the other direction as fast as possible.
If you're a single guy and a child walks up to you, it's almost wisest that you run the other direction as fast as possible.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I posted this elsewhere, but it seems the death nail is right around the corner.
http://nikonites.com/off-topic/2968...ography-potentially-worldwide.html#post434045
http://nikonites.com/off-topic/2968...ography-potentially-worldwide.html#post434045
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
Umm...honestly Jake...how many middle-aged men WITH cameras go around taking photos strictly of buses? Yes, the thought of a middle-aged man taking a photo aimed at a bus is going to set off red flags. Sorry...I know it isn't what you want to hear, but it is the reality of where our country has gone. You getting flagged has nothing to do with your character as a person. Unfortunately too many child-lovin', HORNY men have made it difficult to take photos anywhere in the vicinity of children.
Do people ever approach you and strike up conversations when you are out shooting? I don't know if it's because I'm a female, but I feel like a magnet drawing in all kinds of people who want to stop and chat when I'm carrying a camera. Go figure.
I'll be sure to keep your situation in mind should I ever wish to photograph buses. In fact, sometimes I think the bus drivers hold conventions at either McDonald's or Burger King because I've been wanting to take a photo of the multitude of buses in their parking lots!Thankfully I am on a first name basis with one of the administrators in this local school district.
On a serious note, do a few Google searches for you name in case the report makes one of your local news outlets.
Once again, holy sh*t!! I don't know which overreaction to eviscerate first, so I'm just going to leave it be.
(Christ, I can't)
I spent 45 minutes shooting 317 images, one of which was the front of a school bus that pulled next to me on a public road that I was walking on. And that becomes "how many middle-aged men WITH cameras go around taking photos strictly of buses"?! For godsake, it's not "HORNY men" that ruin it for people, it's the delusionally paranoid person who feeds off media induced fear - how everything is either going to kill you or give you cancer - that has made this country impossible to live it. We're a world built on hyperbole, Chicken Little, and the sky is falling all around us if we don't do something about it. Parents can't let their kids walk down the street alone, not because of any real danger but because Mrs. Kravitz is looking out the window and calling the cops because some kids is (gasp!!) walking by themselves.
You all want to crawl in a hole and hide, go ahead. Just remember to keep your nose stuck up your own @$$ and out of the business of those of us who want to turn off our TV sets and live life outside of your paranoid world. God, we used to make fun of the idea of the Russian Babushka sweeping the steps and reporting on what the people in building were doing to subvert the government. We've not only become that, we've surpassed that lunacy.
Thumper_6119
Senior Member
Interesting topic. Very polarizing it seems.
I'm waiting for the animal lovers to show up on my doorstep because I took a photo of a bird or a deer. You never know what kind of emissions come out of a camera when the shutter clicks. Maybe the flash is causing blindness in racoons.
Quite possibly the tree huggers will unite against photos of the forest. Didn't you know that every time you take a photo, the tree dies a little more?
It's a sick world out there.
Quite possibly the tree huggers will unite against photos of the forest. Didn't you know that every time you take a photo, the tree dies a little more?
It's a sick world out there.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
That's why I had a yellow jacket and red cap on, to make myself "suspicious" in all the right ways. Truth is it's a very rural road and I walk down the middle and go right or left depending on the flow of traffic, which you can hear long before you see it even on a cloudless day. Not many Priuses (Priuii?!) here to sneak up on you.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I don't think it's much more "sick" today than it was when I was growing up in the 70's. More "fearful" and "angry"? Absolutely. It used to be that if someone was "suspicious" you walked up and talked to them. Now you just bolt the door and call the cops ... or worse yet grab a gun and go after them yourself like the people in the linked article.
I agree. Additionally, the people to blame for the intrusion on your morning are the pedophiles that have made the increased awareness necessary, not the police. Also no where in the first ammendment does it say that you can't be questioned about what you were doing. Did they take any of your pictures? It also might have gone smoother if you had your ID.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
At issue, in my case, is that they had no basis to stop and question me. Nothing I did was in any way illegal, even if I had been taking pictures of any humans, children or otherwise. There is no law that states that I need to carry identification. There is no law that states I cannot take pictures in a public place. There is nothing about anything I did that justified being stopped and questioned. The bitch of it is that because I didn't continue on, assert my rights and make them either charge me with something or be on their way my name is now on record as a "suspect" in an investigation that potentially identifies me with child abusers. What's my problem with that? It's that we're already living in a society that hunts down people on sex offender lists and drives them out of town. It's that the next time I get stopped for anything my name comes up with this incident attached to it. It's that shoot first and ask questions later asshats could care less about truth if they can somehow justify in their feeble minds that I somehow pose a threat. And why does that matter? Because if you bothered to read the article that I posted at the very beginning of this mess, asshats with guns are threatening good and decent people for no reason whatsoever. If the f*cking wild west out there.
So no, sir, you're absolutely mistaken when you say I have the pedophiles to blame for this. I do not. My blame lies squarely on the shoulders of a country that has given up true freedom and liberty to a government that asked them for it in hopes that they can protect them from something that they cannot. As Benjamin Frankin said, "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." I, for one, don't plan to stand idly by while this continues to happen, and neither should those of you who are deluded enough to think otherwise.
This came out of the horror of WWII:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I sat idly by while I heard about the injustice that was "Stop and Frisk" in New York City, where walking down the street were stopped day in and day out, questioned and actually frisked because they simply caught a cop's eye. Thank God that's been stopped, at least for now - but from what I'm reading here there's a bunch of you who somehow think that's some kind of good idea. Wake the hell up!! Because if you don't, they'll eventually be coming for you too.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
I'll just point out the 1st Amendment has nothing to do with being stopped and questioned by law enforcement, but the 4th Amendment certainly does, which reads in part: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated." From the moment the police arrived Jake was either free to go, or he was being detained (e.g. for questioning). If he was not being detained then he would be free to go at any time. On the other hand, if he was being detained for "reasonable suspicion" reasons there must be clear, specific and articulable facts in direct support of that and, while I'm certainly no attorney, I don't see, "He was seen walking around in broad daylight and took a photo of a school bus" as meeting any of those criteria.
....
POLICE: New Bern man arrested after photographing students at bus stop
This quote is almost surreal:
This quote is almost surreal:
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I get it. I really do. We should be able to photograph anything that is visible in public whether that be buildings, people, or small children; however, I wouldn't be all too comfortable if someone walked up to me and took my photo without first saying something (unless I was doing something unusual).
And where is the he's innocent until proven guilty part? You were pegged as being guilty without reason. Yes, I understand your frustration and anger. And sure...you don't want it to come back and bite you in the arse at some point down the road. Did you request a copy of the police report (assuming they filed one).
This is strictly for clarification...I didn't express myself clearly making it easy to misunderstand my comment. Yes, it sounds like I said you were only taking photos of buses, but that isn't what I meant. I know you'd be out taking photos of just about anything. What I meant was how many people take photos solely of buses without getting any people in them? Sure you and I would do that, but the majority of people seeing someone taking a photo of a school bus would become suspicious. Unfortunately our society has a lot of undesirable people in it so now anyone can be scrutinized for actions that shouldn't even be questioned. It seems the motto is now Better Safe Than Sorry.
In my township, I believe the Township Manager has authority over the police or at least can scrutinize what they do. Your police must be accountable to someone or to some form of government. Perhaps that person or responsible party can assist you to find out what was reported by the police.
And just today this article showed up in my news feed. Street photography in Arkansas could become illegal... :stupid:
If This Arkansas Bill Becomes Law, It Could Make Street Photography Illegal | Popular Photography
EDIT: I see you posted a similar article from F-Stoppers
And where is the he's innocent until proven guilty part? You were pegged as being guilty without reason. Yes, I understand your frustration and anger. And sure...you don't want it to come back and bite you in the arse at some point down the road. Did you request a copy of the police report (assuming they filed one).
This is strictly for clarification...I didn't express myself clearly making it easy to misunderstand my comment. Yes, it sounds like I said you were only taking photos of buses, but that isn't what I meant. I know you'd be out taking photos of just about anything. What I meant was how many people take photos solely of buses without getting any people in them? Sure you and I would do that, but the majority of people seeing someone taking a photo of a school bus would become suspicious. Unfortunately our society has a lot of undesirable people in it so now anyone can be scrutinized for actions that shouldn't even be questioned. It seems the motto is now Better Safe Than Sorry.
In my township, I believe the Township Manager has authority over the police or at least can scrutinize what they do. Your police must be accountable to someone or to some form of government. Perhaps that person or responsible party can assist you to find out what was reported by the police.
And just today this article showed up in my news feed. Street photography in Arkansas could become illegal... :stupid:
If This Arkansas Bill Becomes Law, It Could Make Street Photography Illegal | Popular Photography
EDIT: I see you posted a similar article from F-Stoppers
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Bob Blaylock
Senior Member
I find two things deeply disturbing, here.
- How easily a person can come under an unreasonable degree of suspicion,and be treated as a likely criminal, for engaging in a completely legal, legitimate, and obviously-harmless activity.
- How willing so many of my own countrymen are to tolerate and even defend this.
I don't know enough about the law to know if the 4th Amendment requires actual damages to have occured, such as prosecution or confiscation, but if he didn't give them permission, he may have some sort of a harassment case. This is the ACLU's bread and butter. If he did give them permission he may not be able to do anything about it.
The police are likely under pressure to err on the side of child safety, and the only thing that will make them not question people in that situation, is to have it shoved in their face that any evidence gathered will not be admissible in court.
I'm amazed that "Partnering with Police" seems to be very acceptable these days but when the kids ratted out their parents to the Stasi in East-Germany, we were all morally outraged.
If I consider the times I'm standing somewhere trying to get a shot in on a bird, completely oblivious to my surroundings, and then realize it would only take one moron thinking you're pointing at them to have you end up in jail because that suddenly makes you a serious threat to their life, I feel deeply sorry for the state of your society.
The ironic part is that we're living in times when vanity is that rampant, some people never shot anything but a selfie. Every moment of their life is documented and displayed for anyone to see.
But if someone else takes a shot of them, oh boy, chaos and pandemonium.
If I consider the times I'm standing somewhere trying to get a shot in on a bird, completely oblivious to my surroundings, and then realize it would only take one moron thinking you're pointing at them to have you end up in jail because that suddenly makes you a serious threat to their life, I feel deeply sorry for the state of your society.
The ironic part is that we're living in times when vanity is that rampant, some people never shot anything but a selfie. Every moment of their life is documented and displayed for anyone to see.
But if someone else takes a shot of them, oh boy, chaos and pandemonium.
The ACLU doesn't give a shit about middle aged white men.:dejection:
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Protection under the 4th Amendment does not require anything beyond your legitimate, legal activity being interrupted in an unreasonable manner by law enforcement. Jake experienced what is known as a "Terry Stop" pure and simple (you can Google "Terry v. Ohio" the relevant Supreme Court case).
A "Terry Stop" *IS* a detention and its purpose is to ascertain if there cause for a search, also known as a "pat down" and/or outright arrest based on the outcome of the interrogation during the detention. Such a stop, again, must be based on what the courts refer to as "specific and articulable facts" relating to the commission of a crime. "Hunches" or "bad feelings" are not "articulable facts relating to the commission of a crime". Being a dirty hippy, taking photos in broad daylight of a school bus, regardless of how it makes you FEEL, does not constitute "articulable facts related the commission of a crime".
In my eye's what the responding officer should have done, at most, was a drive by and word from Officer Friendly stating, "We got a call from some pearl-clutching grandmother about a dirty hippy taking photos and she's totally freaking out, know what I mean? Nice camera, by the way. Have a great day."
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