Mirrorless vs DSLR

[Pretzel]

To answer your question, @TedG954, yes MUP or Delay moves the mirror out of the way sooner, so that you get far less chance of mirror slap. Quiet mode seems to help with this as well, with a slightly delayed shutter release, at least from what I understand with my D7100. Not sure if it works the same with the D800, but would think it does. Never messed with any of that on the X3x00 series, so... no comment.

 

[AC016]

If anyone is still wondering about IQ, please look at this website: photos that the Fuji X-Pro 1 can't take

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Quiet mode seems to help with this as well, with a slightly delayed shutter release, at least from what I understand with my D7100...

Quiet shutter mode definitely makes a difference on the D7100 in my experience. Once I had enough shots to do a proper, side-by-side comparison of the two modes, I went to Q-mode full-time. Probably not practical for someone who anticipates needing to do a lot of burst-shooting, but I don't so it works for me. Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out. I'm a big fan of the "Q"!

....

 

[wornish]

If your DSLR supports it then you can further reduce blur when taking a long exposure (say when doing a landscape shot) by using MUP with the timer set at say 5 sec to allow the camera to settle after pressing the shutter butter then set the activation delay to 3 sec to allow the mirror slap vibration to end .

 

[Browncoat]

If anyone is still wondering about IQ, please look at this website: photos that the Fuji X-Pro 1 can't take

Beat me to it. I found that site a few weeks ago, and it's pretty incredible. The comments are hilarious.

Any preconceived notions, any hangup or technical limitations that you have against mirrorless are mostly unfounded. Especially when it comes to the Fuji X series.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

Very good detailed aricle. Sony seems to be making the most innovative mirrorless cameras right now. The have stretched a typical mirrorless into FF. I think that speaks volumes about where mirrorless is heading. Not only that but their designs on their EVF's are great too. Big advanatge in being able to see the exact image you are taking through the sensor and back into the EVF. I love that feature. Mirrorless does have some minor bugs to work out, but they are headed in the right direction.

 

[Marcel]

Very good detailed aricle. Sony seems to be making the most innovative mirrorless cameras right now. The have stretched a typical mirrorless into FF. I think that speaks volumes about where mirrorless is heading. Not only that but their designs on their EVF's are great too. Big advanatge in being able to see the exact image you are taking through the sensor and back into the EVF. I love that feature. Mirrorless does have some minor bugs t work out, but they are headed in the right direction.

The main problem I find with mirror less is the distance from lens to sensor that makes it very difficult to keep high quality in the corners and the obligation to use adapters for existing lenses.
Now if only Nikon would make a mirror less with the same F mount and same lens-sensor distance I could then use all my existing lenses fully automatic with the newer mirror less camera... Well we shall see how long it takes them to start digging that market.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

The main problem I find with mirror less is the distance from lens to sensor that makes it very difficult to keep high quality in the corners and the obligation to use adapters for existing lenses.
Now if only Nikon would make a mirror less with the same F mount and same lens-sensor distance I could then use all my existing lenses fully automatic with the newer mirror less camera... Well we shall see how long it takes them to start digging that market.

Personally I don't see the problem you mentioned in the distance between the lens to the sensor, (which is small). I see more of a problem in dust settling on the sensor. As far as Nikon....I hope they can resolve their issue with the F mount. The article, of course, mentions that limitation specifically with regards to Nikon's mount. What do you think about what the article said about that?

 

[Browncoat]

I have to admire the customer loyalty you guys have. Nikon shot itself in the foot too many times for me to retain any faith in them as a company.

It would be great if they would transition the F-series lenses to a mirrorless system, but that's probably just wishful thinking. I look for them to continue to gouge at their base market and introduce a completely separate system that requires a whole new lens investment. More gold boxes, right?

 

[J-see]

I have to admire the customer loyalty you guys have. Nikon shot itself in the foot too many times for me to retain any faith in them as a company.

I always wear army boots. There's a maybe a million other shoes out there; some better, some different. Guess what?

I still like wearing these boots.

 

[Rick M]

We get way too wrapped up in specs determining what a camera can or can't do. The Oly EM 1 is impressing me beyond my expectations and that is coming from a D610 with great glass. The Nikon 1 system got beat up for it's specs, but I'm selling 16x20 prints made from that little 1 inch "incapable" sensor. Looking at shots from my EM 1, I'll be able to print up to 30x40.

It is so how you use it. Sure I can't crop 300%, but I do not need to. 81 focus points (almost the entire frame),no mirror slap and pro glass that fits in the palm of your hand is awesome!

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

I have to admire the customer loyalty you guys have. Nikon shot itself in the foot too many times for me to retain any faith in them as a company.

It would be great if they would transition the F-series lenses to a mirrorless system, but that's probably just wishful thinking. I look for them to continue to gouge at their base market and introduce a completely separate system that requires a whole new lens investment. More gold boxes, right?

I agree with you Browncoat.....I see Nikon going to a whole different mount as well since reading the intro. article to the OP.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

Can I ask a question about the battery life with the mirrorless cameras. I know the Oly series you could buy an electronic viewfinder, but again I assume these drained the battery. How long can you use your mirrorless cameras before they need a recharge... and roughly how many shots can/do you get out of a charge?

With my Sony A7, with an EVF, I get 200-300 actuations estimated. I carry a spare, no big deal. I don't shoot 1000 shots a day anyway. EVF is included on the A7 line of cameras.

 

[Nero]

Amen, Marcel. :applause:

I wrote about this topic on my personal blog when I made the switch. I won't offer a shameless plug by linking, but here's a quote:



We've got all these big name guys like Joe McNally telling us "It's not about the gear"...meanwhile, he's trotting around the globe with six D4's, a Hasselblad, Profoto lights, and an army of assistants. Wait a minute, what? On top of that, you can't find an honest review anywhere, on anything. Everyone is attempting to sell links or clicks, so they don't want to upset the fruit basket by offering up a real opinion on any piece of equipment for risk of pissing off a sponsor.

In other words, we've all become armchair photographers and gear gurus. We don't need to form our own opinion, because everyone (at least anyone who's anyone) online has already formed it for us. To the guys knocking mirrorless, I would ask: have you ever actually put one in your hands for a day? Not to anyone here in particular, but just in general across the internet. I would bet most of them haven't. They think mirrorless sucks because they read it on a blog once. But they have no real-world experience with one. We all allow our perceptions to shape our opinions. Hell, I used to feel the same way about mirrorless. They were crappy, slow, tinker-toy cameras with substandard image quality. That's the general, misinformed consensus anyway, so that's what I thought. Until one landed in my lap.

Truth is, you have to take the tech out of the equation. Mirrorless is not quite there yet. There are definitely trade-offs. But at this point, that's not really what mirrorless is about. As much as I hate to say it, the best comparison I can make is this: Mirrorless vs DSLR is a lot like Apple vs PC.

DSLR is like PC. It's IBM. It's big money and mainstream. DSLR has history, commonality. It has roots. It's comfortable.

Mirrorless is like Apple. It's a lifestyle that's more form over function. It's outside the box. It's sleek and sexy, bordering on taboo. It's new and innovative. It breaks the mold.

Only problem with that post is that Apple is anything but innovative. They basically copy everyone else and act like it was their idea. I'm not saying that applies to mirrorless cameras though.

For now, I'm perfectly happy with Nikon DSLR's and for the forseeable future that's what I'm sticking with.

 

[AC016]

Very good detailed aricle. Sony seems to be making the most innovative mirrorless cameras right now. The have stretched a typical mirrorless into FF. I think that speaks volumes about where mirrorless is heading. Not only that but their designs on their EVF's are great too. Big advanatge in being able to see the exact image you are taking through the sensor and back into the EVF. I love that feature. Mirrorless does have some minor bugs to work out, but they are headed in the right direction.

Ahem, but i think you are forgetting about Leica, who introduced a mirrorless digital full frame camera back in 2009, the M9. Let's not forget the Monochrom, the M Typ 240 & the M-E Typ 220, all introduced before the A7. Sony was innovative by making a mirrorless full frame available to the masses.

 

[AC016]

The main problem I find with mirror less is the distance from lens to sensor that makes it very difficult to keep high quality in the corners and the obligation to use adapters for existing lenses.
Now if only Nikon would make a mirror less with the same F mount and same lens-sensor distance I could then use all my existing lenses fully automatic with the newer mirror less camera... Well we shall see how long it takes them to start digging that market.

You would not be able to use current Nikon lenses on any APS-C mirrorless camera that Nikon would bring out without
an adapter. You need to fill that gap. Canon's EOS M needs an adaptor to use Canon's lenses and Sony needs an adapter to use all other lenses on it's A7 except for the ones that were actually designed to be used on the A7. Nikon would have to design a new line of lenses. That is why it is best to invest in a system that has a deep line-up of lenses that are actually designed for that system, such as Fuji or Oly. Personally, i have never read about people having major issues with IQ in the corners. Though, i do believe it is an "issue" with any camera system.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

Ahem, but i think you are forgetting about Leica, who introduced a mirrorless digital full frame camera back in 2009, the M9. Let's not forget the Monochrom, the M Typ 240 & the M-E Typ 220, all introduced before the A7. Sony was innovative by making a mirrorless full frame available to the masses.

Ok....you win!

 

[Marcel]

You would not be able to use current Nikon lenses on any APS-C mirrorless camera that Nikon would bring out without
an adapter. You need to fill that gap.

Not if the new system is built with the right distance from the lens to the sensor in mind. I know that with the existing ones (sony, fuji) the distance is very small, but if Nikon would make one that wouldn't need an adaptor, then all the existing lenses could be used in their fully automatic (aperture, auto-focus) modes. I'd be in line with my order for sure.

 

[J-see]

The irony is I'm right now considering one with a short lens solely to try street.

That's the one huge advantage mirrorless has; a DSLR simply isn't subtle. The moment I'm walking the street holding the DSLR, I could just as easily have been carrying an AK-47. Everyone directly spots it and becomes very uncomfortable. Everyone's that self-aware and that vain these days. They start tucking everything in that still can, wonder if their hair is fine, nothing is stuck between their teeth and they maybe should have worn that new jacket.

Once they see that DSLR, they don't assume it's probably just some amateur shooting irrelevant shots. No, they already see themselves on the front page of tomorrows national newspaper.

There's very little natural left when you carry a DSLR on the streets. A smaller mirrorless sure got the advantage there.

 

[AC016]

Not if the new system is built with the right distance from the lens to the sensor in mind. I know that with the existing ones (sony, fuji) the distance is very small, but if Nikon would make one that wouldn't need an adaptor, then all the existing lenses could be used in their fully automatic (aperture, auto-focus) modes. I'd be in line with my order for sure.

I don't see it happening Marcel. If it would be possible, why didn't Sony and Canon do it already? Keep in mind that they want to make money as well and they won't do that by just selling camera bodies only. I think if they were going to do it, they would have to set the sensor further back, which would make the camera bigger, which defeats the purpose of a mirrorless camera. The only other option, is to move the lens forward and they have to do that with an adapter.