Are Fast Lenses Becoming Obsolete???

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Eye-level

Banned
I was thinking FX and even DX cameras are so good at high ISO nowadays that you probably don't even need speed anymore. I suppose you might need a lens with great resolving power. Will a D800 out resolve a kit lens?

With film you had to have 1.2 or 1.4 and it was expensive...I don't think that is as important as it used to be.
 
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Don Kuykendall_RIP

RIP :(
Eye-level said:
I was thinking FX and even DX cameras are so good at high ISO nowadays that you probably don't even need speed anymore. I suppose you might need a lens with great resolving power. Will a D800 out resolve a kit lens?

With film you had to have 1.2 or 1.4 and it was expensive...I don't think that is as important as it used to be.
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I think there will always be a place for them. The cost is probably why you don't see them as much now.
 
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Phillydog1958

Senior Member
Interesting point, Jeff. I'm leaning towards your school of thought. I recently purchased the 70-200mm f4. I researched the differences between it and it's big brother -- the 2.8 version. I looked at pro reviews and user reviews. The f4 version had great reviews and the comparisons between the 2 lenses convinced me to go with the f4. Many users felt that the f4 was comparable to the 2.8, in many ways, not all. Some users said that they would even give up their 2.8 lenses for the f4 version because they felt that the f4 was almost just as good. They mentioned that the reduced size and weight made a difference to them. We all know the obvious advantages of a 2.8 over a f4. After buying the f4, I'm convinced that I can live with my decision and not have any regrets. You might be on to something . . . These new cams are impressive. Personally, I've never had the pleasure of shooting with the 2.8, so I can't compare the 2 lenses. All I can say is that $2,500 is a lot of doe for a lens. :D.
 
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§am

Senior Member
I love a fast lens - can really see the difference in pictures when I use one compared to say a slower lens.
However, on the longer zooms like the 70-200mm mentioned above, I would imagine f/4 is sufficient, and f/2.8 is a luxury :)
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Eduard said:
I'm in the other camp. . . I prefer fast lens and low ISO. I love bokeh!! ;)
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And this is why they'll never go away. There's also the camp that equates speed with quality. Someone once told me that, all other things being equal, fast glass only wins if you're shooting wide open - if you always shoot smaller than f4 then all you did was spend more money. I'm finding I agree with him, but I do an awful lot of outdoor shooting. If I made my living shooting indoors I would still probably want fast. Where I start questioning the differences is not so much 2.8 vs. 4 but at 1.4 vs. 1.8, which may be more the point of your argument, and in this range you are really left only with those who want to split hairs over razor thin DoF.
 
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piperbarb

Senior Member
I am in the fast lens camp. I love a fast lens, especially a prime with a shorter focal length, and low ISO. One of my favorite lenses is the 85mm f/1.8. You cannot beat fast lenses for low and available light photography especially for indoor situations. I agree with Sam, that for a longer zoom, f/3.8-4 should be sufficient. I wouldn't want to lug an f/2.8 tele-zoom through the woods for hours.
 
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crycocyon

Senior Member
Isolating a subject against a background has always been a pursuit in fine photography. There are times when greater depth of field is required, and times when it is not. Having one or two more stops to play with can make a huge difference in low light between having camera shake and not having it, even at high ISOs. There is also a need for shallow depth of field and natural light image capture in DSLR video so those lenses are not just made for still photography. For the lens to be sharp and fast at the same time you need the ED or aspherical elements, nanocoating, etc.. and just by virtue of the design, fast primes consistently outperform zooms in terms of resolution. Plus, a faster lens will be sharper stopped down from 1.4 to 2.8 than a 2.8 lens shooting wide open. It is the case I believe that a kit lens will not outresolve a D800 sensor, but a fast prime would.
 
AC016

AC016

Senior Member
I don't think they will ever go away. But, i think you are right in saying that camera sensors are getting better and better; therefore, the need for fast glass is not so urgent as it once was perhaps. Fast primes will always be here, i can't see Nikkor giving them up. In terms of bokeh, if i can get bokeh with my 400mm AI lens at f11, then you can get it with any lens! It's all a matter of how far your subject is from the immediate background. Of course, using a 1.8 just makes it easier to do and the subject does not have to be far from it's background. Though, shooting wide open all the time, especially outdoors, is a bit silly if you ask me. I don't even think that is where the lens's sweet spot is.
 
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Eye-level

Banned
With my lowly D5000 (which is terribly noisy even at lower ISO compared to a D7K or a D600) and the 105/2.5 and even more so the 85/1.8 I can stop down to the sweet spot and handhold indoors. That was sort a challenge with the film camera. It is somewhat of a challenge with the 105/2.5 but if I were FX it would be no sweat. With FX or a late model DX camera I conclude that 1.8 isn't even really necessary. I have no problems at all blurring out backgrounds at any time right on up through the stops so I think the bokeh argument is really just a question of which lens is used and the quality of it's bokeh. With all the new coatings and computer aided lens design I do not think sharpness is a problem anymore either...at any stop.

Perhaps this is why we no longer see the super fast super expensive units that are 1.0 or 1.2 at least I can't think of a new modern high speed lens. Leica has a modern Noctilux but I think they still produce this because there are so many Leica film shooters. Nikon still makes the 50/1.2 Ais and it is still the fastest lens they make albeit MF only. I think Nocton makes some high speed units but I don't know much about them.

​Moral of the story I guess is the high dollar super fast lens is going the way of the dinosaur I would think. I wonder if we will only see 1.4/1.8 in the future?
 
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gqtuazon

Gear Head
The problem with f1.2 lenses such as the ones offered by Canon is that their AF is affected due to its weight. Heavier lens equates to slower AF. The f1.2 is more of a luxury item if Nikon ever produces one that has AF. At the moment, I am good with f1.8 and f1.4.
 
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stmv

Senior Member
on your point of ISO,, these sensors have what I call the natural range where the sensors operate with almost zero impact to noise.

On the older SLRs, this range was quite narrow,, beyound 400 ISO,, and noise was introduced.

but, each generation has either extended or maintaned the previous generation.

Currently, I consider the natural range of my cameras to be up to about ISO 1250, and will shoot without too much concern for noise, beyond that,, noise becomes an issue for me, but if I have not choice, I will push up to 2500 (on my D800),, and well beyond that, I don't believe the hype, because I see too much loss of quality to be happy.

I own down to 1.2,, and do like the look of that ultra narrow DOF, dreamy look, not super sharp, but sometimes we get too focused (haha) on sharpness.
 
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gqtuazon

Gear Head
Eye-level said:
I knew that Canon was still doing them...does the AF still work when they are wide open or is it dicey?
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They are still good. I would like to see Nikon build them though.

Other lens manufacturers for the m43 mount such as Cosina still make f.95 manual focus lenses. They help compensate in lowering the ISO.
 
mobi

mobi

Senior Member
Don't think fast lenses will become obsolete. However, they will be less common in future.

Sensors are improving, high ISO doesn't show that much noise nowadays, VR helped to increase exposure time without compromising on the picture. So not having larger aperture can be offset adjusting other parameters.

I also think changing of lenses often will become unpopular. People now prefer having a single super zoom rather than lots of lenses.
 
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Eye-level

Banned
I disagree...they have made fixed lens cameras forever...people want to be able to pick their personal poison...I bet interchangeable lenses will always be more popular than not... ;)
 
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Eye-level

Banned
stmv said:
nikkor 50mm manual 1.2 still available. 649 dollars! brand new. love this lens.
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Fastest Nikkor made!

Trivia what is the other Ais lens they still make (they didn't pull any punches with this one and the engineering still stands strong) and what is the last one they discontinued?
 
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