Not an "Apple Guy" or an iPhone Guy, But Wow. Just... Wow!
- Thread starter Horoscope Fish
- Start date
Nero
Senior Member
iTunes is tied with Internet Explorer for being literally the worst program ever made.
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Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
I don't recall saying that at all. I said, in my last post, The iOS processor does not "verify security". I went on to say security routines are handled by hardware that is isolated, and physically separate from, the iOS and its processor. I then went on to explain why a hardware debugger can NOT bypass the physically isolated encryption hardware of the iPhone and how its encryption hardware requires manual input to be satisified. I don't see how any of that implies Apple, "could not possibly comply with the court order".
.....
The FBI came to Apple because the FBI can't unravel the iPhones encryption without Apple's help. If the FBI could have done so, they would have, but they can't: not even with hardware debuggers because, as I've been saying over and over, the encryption is designed, specifically, to thwart such measures. So... We're back to the FBI not being able to crack this iPhone themselves so they want Apple to unravel it for them and by any means necessary. Apple said, "No," because Apple doesn't want to create a backdoor that does not currently exist and could easily escape the purview of the FBI. Apple clearly believes they are within their right's to defy the court order because they think the request itself is unconstitutional. Apple CEO Tim Cook states: "For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business." Emphasis mine.
Yes, Apple *could* create "FBiOS" but again, that would be letting the proverbial Genie out of the Bottle and Apple thinks they have the law on their side.
The FBI, clearly, thinks otherwise.
Of course they could comply and of course Apple could make something to be able to access any iPhone, they know exactly how they manipulate the hardware and software to make it as secure as they can. But as has been said in the open letter, The FBI is asking Apple to break down the barriers that they put up to make it easier for them to access the phones. Thats like asking someone who puts up security fencing to leave out a few bolts to make the job easier ...
Now take out the terrorism side of it for a second, if they were to comply with this order and when (Not if, it will be a matter of when) the "Key" to get into the phones falls into the wrong hands, the whole world will be up in arms with Apple because EVERYTHING about a large chunk of phone users will be free bait for anyone who wants to use it, the repercussions of this doesn't bare thinking about !!
Of course, this can be overcome with newer phones by killing the person and hacking off their finger, but in the case of the San Bernardio Shooter they are SOL cause it was a 5c
FBI could use dead suspects' fingerprints to open iPhones
FBI could use dead suspects' fingerprints to open iPhones
Re: Not an "Apple Guy" or an iPhone Guy, But Wow. Just... Wow!
So was Apple just exposed?
Apple Unlocked iPhones for the Feds 70 Times Before - The Daily Beast
" Apple has unlocked phones for authorities at least 70 times since 2008. (Apple doesn’t dispute this figure.)"
So was Apple just exposed?
Apple Unlocked iPhones for the Feds 70 Times Before - The Daily Beast
" Apple has unlocked phones for authorities at least 70 times since 2008. (Apple doesn’t dispute this figure.)"
Re: Not an "Apple Guy" or an iPhone Guy, But Wow. Just... Wow!
It does appear that Apple's big stand is crap and selective in where it wants to be helpful and when it wants to be a martyr.
From Colonel Allen West
Here's what Apple NEVER mentioned after refusing to unlock San Bernardino terrorist's iPhone - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
It does appear that Apple's big stand is crap and selective in where it wants to be helpful and when it wants to be a martyr.
From Colonel Allen West
Here's what Apple NEVER mentioned after refusing to unlock San Bernardino terrorist's iPhone - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
Finally! Something in this thread that I understand.:encouragement:
Re: Not an "Apple Guy" or an iPhone Guy, But Wow. Just... Wow!
"Here Sir, let me unlock this door for you."
"Here Sir, take this key so you can unlock the door yourself."
It is a sensible request when the police arrives at your home and asks you to unlock your door so they can enter.
However, when they ask you to permanently leave your door unlocked just in case they, some day, may have to enter; such a request should be considered as insane.
That's basically what they're asking. Whether you can permanently unlock your door... just in case.
"Here Sir, let me unlock this door for you."
"Here Sir, take this key so you can unlock the door yourself."
It is a sensible request when the police arrives at your home and asks you to unlock your door so they can enter.
However, when they ask you to permanently leave your door unlocked just in case they, some day, may have to enter; such a request should be considered as insane.
That's basically what they're asking. Whether you can permanently unlock your door... just in case.
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"The FBI came to Apple because the FBI can't unravel the iPhones encryption without Apple's help". Can't they? Or is this just a part of Apple's marketing strategy ("we want to amaze our customers with how much we're concerned with their privacy"?
Whatever it is, I cannot but feel that there is too much talk about "privacy", "encryption", "security"...lately. And, as the time passes by, it tends to grow at geometric progression rate. Now, different people may find different reasons to either justify it or to question the trend, but I am sure about one thing: generally, huge systems (corporations, governments etc.) are benefiting on it (on the trend) because, as the users of Internet, the owners of cellular phones etc. are getting CONVINCED that their privacy has been threatened (whereas, in "real life" it is more a kind of hysteria and an auto-suggestion) it is easier for them (corporations, governments) to "tighten" the rules and laws and to ACTUALLY control the people...
The last time I was really unpleasantly surprised with these "privacy" hype was when I found about an initiative to implement an ''native'' encryption into the file formats of upcoming camera models, so that these "new", encrypted JPG and RAW would become a new "standard".
The only thing that I can say is "oh, cmmon people, stop isolating yourself from others and vice versa, stop fearing your own shadows and seeing a bomb in every dog shit that you see out there on a pavement, and start LIVING, at last (while you're still LASTING)...:cheerful:
Whatever it is, I cannot but feel that there is too much talk about "privacy", "encryption", "security"...lately. And, as the time passes by, it tends to grow at geometric progression rate. Now, different people may find different reasons to either justify it or to question the trend, but I am sure about one thing: generally, huge systems (corporations, governments etc.) are benefiting on it (on the trend) because, as the users of Internet, the owners of cellular phones etc. are getting CONVINCED that their privacy has been threatened (whereas, in "real life" it is more a kind of hysteria and an auto-suggestion) it is easier for them (corporations, governments) to "tighten" the rules and laws and to ACTUALLY control the people...
The last time I was really unpleasantly surprised with these "privacy" hype was when I found about an initiative to implement an ''native'' encryption into the file formats of upcoming camera models, so that these "new", encrypted JPG and RAW would become a new "standard".
The only thing that I can say is "oh, cmmon people, stop isolating yourself from others and vice versa, stop fearing your own shadows and seeing a bomb in every dog shit that you see out there on a pavement, and start LIVING, at last (while you're still LASTING)...:cheerful:
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rocketman122
Senior Member
bravo! this is just a fantastic PR show. apple comes out like a hero. people are talking about the security tech and privacy and apple is getting credit and tons of publicity. they opened the phone a long time ago. this is any different than when snowden released info about nsa and big corps giving any info they need? and nothing has changed since. and since then you think apple said "FBI NSA CIA, pack up your computers from our database center and leave, we no longer are involved". cmon now folks. now apple want to use this to their advantage and make a show and its working well. but you are naive if you think the phone wasnt opened.
and all the fake ass big corps like facebook twitter and google are taking advantage of apple with the "we support you also" bullcrap. getting some thumbs up from people.
brilliant PR ploy. bravo apple and bravo carguy for the article.
No, Apple is doing this themselves.
Exactly. It seems Apple may be more concerned about there image, perhaps in the home country of these despicable terrorists?
I think they understand that in the rest of the world, there are plenty that don't bend over that easily.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Article states Apple has unlocked 70 iPhones since 2008. Great. Was Apple served with a warrant, or a subpoena to do so? The author conveniently glosses over this critical detail. Apple fully admits they cooperate with law enforcement when presented with a proper subpoena or warrant. Also, what version of iOS were these phones running? The article conveniently glosses over this detail as well. Not too mention 2008 to 2016 is eons in terms of evolution of technology and just because Apple's encryption wasn't something or other in 2008, doesn't mean it isn't something entirely different in 2016. Even the article states that cracking the iPhone 5C, while possible, would still require engineers to create something that does not currently exist.
Further, going through the courts to obtain a warrant and then asking Apple to unlock a phone is very different than using a bit of 18th century law to get a court order compelling Apple to provide law enforcement with a backdoor into millions of devices carried by people outside the specifics of a particular case. That opinion seems to be shared by Apple. It appears to me the FBI is exploiting this case, using it as a springboard to gain carte blanche access to the personal data of millions of people without having to be bothered with such annoyances as following the law they are sworn to uphold. Apple is not saying that, but I think they're thinking it.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Right. The FBI wants a "key" that opens the "front door" on that specific phone.
Except the key Apple would have to create to open the "front door" on THAT iPhone would also be able to open the "front door" to every other iPhone using the same technology. And creating this key would establish precedent for the FBI to "request" any other key for any other encryption that Apple might have now, or in the future. It would also set precedent for the FBI getting the same "keys" from any other company for similar technologies now and in the future.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Oh I have no doubt Apple can cut the key the FBI wants, I don't think that's ever been in question; but "cutting the key" without a warrant sets the precedent. And once one key is cut, it can be duplicated.
rocketman122
Senior Member
I think youre looking too much into the legality and little detail of all this buddy. there is no technical problem at all. there is no problem. they opened it a long time ago. very naive people. this is a pr smoke screen. they opened it and had no issue doing it. they work with the govt. the terrorist is dead and they need potential info that will help.
reminds me of this part here in the incredibles..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8GtrKtrZ4 50 second mark
the part when mr incredible (apple) helps the old lady (fbi) then yells it out loud (to the public), im sorry maam I know ur upset. same with the public. no we wont do that. but they already did it. its just a ploy so they look untarnished.
they looked bad when snowden ratted out the big corps apple was in there as well. so this time they saw a PR op and took advantage of it. everyone sees them as the big hero but im certain it was opened a long time ago. to fake some govt papers is nonsense. the govt had no problem with them making it seem legit. but its all a crock a shet. if they opened 80 phones 1 phone of a terrorist is just another day. apple though wanted to get good publicity for this though. they took advantage of it brilliantly. very easy to see behind all the media nonsense.
the thing is the other ahole corps are getting a free ride on apples back. theyre not with apple, theyre using their publicity boost to their advantage cause people raised a high eyebrow at them when snowden ratted them saying to everyone they have access to their computers whenever they want. facebook twitter google apple and more
reminds me of this part here in the incredibles..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8GtrKtrZ4 50 second mark
the part when mr incredible (apple) helps the old lady (fbi) then yells it out loud (to the public), im sorry maam I know ur upset. same with the public. no we wont do that. but they already did it. its just a ploy so they look untarnished.
they looked bad when snowden ratted out the big corps apple was in there as well. so this time they saw a PR op and took advantage of it. everyone sees them as the big hero but im certain it was opened a long time ago. to fake some govt papers is nonsense. the govt had no problem with them making it seem legit. but its all a crock a shet. if they opened 80 phones 1 phone of a terrorist is just another day. apple though wanted to get good publicity for this though. they took advantage of it brilliantly. very easy to see behind all the media nonsense.
the thing is the other ahole corps are getting a free ride on apples back. theyre not with apple, theyre using their publicity boost to their advantage cause people raised a high eyebrow at them when snowden ratted them saying to everyone they have access to their computers whenever they want. facebook twitter google apple and more