The Impact of VR on IQ at Faster Shutter Speeds

[Eyelight]

Edited to add this note on 3/18/2015: The topic veers off, so not as much here on VR as the title and post count might indicate.


So does VR impact IQ at faster shutter speeds. We hear yes and no and maybe. So why not see what we can come up with.

Is it related to focal length or how long you hold a half-press of the shutter release? Does using back-button affect VR performance?

Rather than offer opinions, let's post some images that show a descent sharpness using VR at shutter speeds above 1/500 and the faster the better. Since we are just after showing sharpness, no need to post the full image unless you like. Just post a crop small enough to show some detail.

Who knows what we might learn.

I used LR to filter all my images looking for ones using 1/1000 or higher. I had to look at the info in ViewNX 2 to see if VR was on or off. This one is VR on at 1/1000 and 610 pixels wide or roughly 1/10 the original 6000 pixels. Viewing this on my screen, it's about 5" wide so it is the equivalent of of viewing the full image roughly 50" wide, so should be well above the acceptable sharpness of ordinary viewing.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

To be a true test you would really need to shoot two shots exactly the same with the exception on VR on with one and Off with the other. To make it easy to remember shoot the first with it on and the second with it off.

 

[Paganman2]

I think fast subject movement may have more influence with high shutter VR like when i have shot a plane doing 300knots and 1mile up at 1/1000 +

P.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I think fast subject movement may have more influence with high shutter VR like when i have shot a plane doing 300knots and 1mile up at 1/1000 +

P.

In that case you need active VR. But that is not what the OP is talking about. I think he is wondering about leaving the VR on all the time EVEN IF IT IS NOT NEEDED. It is already stated in many places that VR should be turned off if you are on a tripod.

Shooting using the “THE RECIPROCAL RULE” the VR is no longer necessary but many people do not remember to turn it off when it is not really needed so does not turning it off do more damage to the IQ than not turning it off.

 

[Paganman2]

In that case you need active VR. But that is not what the OP is talking about. I think he is wondering about leaving the VR on all the time EVEN IF IT IS NOT NEEDED. It is already stated in many places that VR should be turned off if you are on a tripod.

Shooting using the “THE RECIPROCAL RULE” the VR is no longer necessary but many people do not remember to turn it off when it is not really needed so does not turning it off do more damage to the IQ than not turning it off.

I am not traveling at 300Knots the plane is i am staionary.

P.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I am not traveling at 300Knots the plane is i am staionary.

P.

Then VR would have no effect since you are shooting a 1/1000 or faster. Unless we figure out if VR does hurt IQ at faster speeds.

But again, this is not what the OP is about. The example is of a still object.

 

[Eyelight]

Rather than offer opinions, let's post some images that show a descent sharpness using VR at shutter speeds above 1/500 and the faster the better. Since we are just after showing sharpness, no need to post the full image unless you like. Just post a crop small enough to show some detail.

Who knows what we might learn.

Please bear this in mind.

To be a true test you would really need to shoot two shots exactly the same with the exception on VR on with one and Off with the other. To make it easy to remember shoot the first with it on and the second with it off.

Identical handheld shots with the same handheld shake would be pretty much impossible to achieve, so just looking to see what is possible with VR on.

I think fast subject movement may have more influence with high shutter VR like when i have shot a plane doing 300knots and 1mile up at 1/1000 +

P.

See the above quote from post #1. Can you produce any sharp images at 1/1000 or above with VR on and if so is it a fluke or are there other factors that might explain the results.



Some discussion is peachy, but images would be better.

In that case you need active VR. But that is not what the OP is talking about. I think he is wondering about leaving the VR on all the time EVEN IF IT IS NOT NEEDED. It is already stated in many places that VR should be turned off if you are on a tripod.

Shooting using the “THE RECIPROCAL RULE” the VR is no longer necessary but many people do not remember to turn it off when it is not really needed so does not turning it off do more damage to the IQ than not turning it off.

No. Not wondering about leaving it on all the time.

VR is useful for framing and focusing, regardless of chosen shutter speed. Maybe it needs to be turned off above 2/shutter and maybe it doesn't.



This thread needs more pictures.

 

[mikew_RIP]

At the moment we have nothing but cloud cover forecast all week but when it improves i will do the same shot with and with out,the only thing i have at the moment is an example of VR on at 1000th of a second.

 

[mikew_RIP]

Lets see if i can phrase this question correctly

If the conclusion we arrive at is too fast a shutter speed with VR on adversely effects the image,that leaves me with another question in my mind,with VR giving 3-4 stops improvement and if 1000th of a second was too fast for VR on but too slow for me to hand hold with out it,would i be better going with 1/500th with VR on and making use of the 3-4 stops given by VR,to me the answer would seam to be yes.

 

[J-see]

VR does hurt during fast shutters but you won't notice in single shots since that shot is finished before VR can kick in. But if you're shooting bursts, VR corrects something no longer relevant since it does that correction after that shot is finished and then resets the VR position between each shot which might not necessarily improve your AF lock (tracking) which tries to keep up with your moving target. It can't but affect focus from time to time. When I shoot bursts with the Tam at high shutter, my out of focus rate doubles to triples. I've seen the same occur when I forgot to disable VR on my little Tam.

Nikon's VR detects 1000 times a second which makes it a 1/1000s for each single detection. The moment before exposure the VR resets to its position and that's when the detection starts.

That means that for every shutter speed equal to and above 1/1000s VR is too slow. But since it detects, sends the signal to the correction units which in turn must respond before any actual correction happens, it is not a wild assumption that even 1/500s will be too fast. The correction itself is mechanical which is the slowest link in the response.

You can't test a single shot at high shutter and use that as evidence VR does not harm. It only shows VR did not have time to kick in.

 

[Blacktop]

This thread needs more pictures.

Take a look at all my images done with the 18-140mm, the 18-55mm and the 70-300mm lenses. VR is on always. Some are sharper than others, but that has hardly anything to do with VR.

A true test would be as Don pointed out, is two identical shots at higher shutter speeds with a tripod under the same conditions and the same subject.
If we are going to blow the image up to a 100- 200% to pixel peep, than there is really no point.

Also those of us that do any kind of post processing will be adjusting sharpness anyway.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

Lets see if i can phrase this question correctly

If the conclusion we arrive at is too fast a shutter speed with VR on adversely effects the image,that leaves me with another question in my mind,with VR giving 3-4 stops improvement and if 1000th of a second was too fast for VR on but too slow for me to hand hold with out it,would i be better going with 1/500th with VR on and making use of the 3-4 stops given by VR,to me the answer would seam to be yes.

What lens are you using that 1/1000 is to slow to hand hold? If it is a 1500 or 2000mm then yes you need the VR On.

 

[J-see]

What lens are you using that 1/1000 is to slow to hand hold? If it is a 1500 or 2000mm then yes you need the VR On.

You'd need a TC2.0 attached to the Tam 150-600mm on a crop sensor to require 1/1800s handheld at the long end. But VR won't help there since that's beyond the capacity its sensors can even detect movement.

Two angular velocity sensors are used in the VR System. One detects "pitching" (vertical movement), while the other detects "yawing" (horizontal movement). Diagonal movements are detected by combining the results of both sensors. These sensors detect camera movement as angular velocity every 1/1000 second. Angular velocity data is sent to a microcomputer built right into lens, which then calculates the amount of compensation needed. After this data is transmitted to the VR unit, the adjustments are made instantaneously. (Fig. 2)

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

Take a look at all my images done with the 18-140mm, the 18-55mm and the 70-300mm lenses. VR is on always. Some are sharper than others, but that has hardly anything to do with VR.

A true test would be as Don pointed out, is two identical shots at higher shutter speeds with a tripod under the same conditions and the same subject.
If we are going to blow the image up to a 100- 200% to pixel peep, than there is really no point.

Also those of us that do any kind of post processing will be adjusting sharpness anyway.

You can't use tripod with VR. that is warned against by almost everyone. And don't ask me why.

Take the 18-140 and shoot it at 1/1000 in both states with as close to the same shit as possible. That is going to give you the best answer to this question. I am going to try it tomorrow when I have sun to shoot by.

 

[Blacktop]

You can't use tripod with VR. that is warned against by almost everyone. And don't ask me why.

Take the 18-140 and shoot it at 1/1000 in both states with as close to the same shit as possible. That is going to give you the best answer to this question. I am going to try it tomorrow when I have sun to shoot by.

I've been doing it for a while and nothing blowed up yet.:indecisiveness:

Ok , I'm going to shoot a flower on a sunny day, one right after another in both states. Then I'm gonna pixel peep the shit out of it.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I've been doing it for a while and nothing blowed up yet.:indecisiveness:

Like I said. Don't ask me.

 

[Blacktop]

Like I said. Don't ask me.

Can I just go shoot my camera without worrying about the rules?

 

[mikew_RIP]

What lens are you using that 1/1000 is to slow to hand hold? If it is a 1500 or 2000mm then yes you need the VR On.

As is often the case one size does not fit all,there are more things to consider than focal length,looking at your avatar you are a fairly well built guy and a heavy lens at 600mm may not mean the same to you as it does to me,i have yet to find a warning from a lens maker to not use VR with high shutter speeds,it could be out there but i have not seen it.

 

[J-see]

I had to dig. You might benefit reading this:

Nikon VR explained

He basically makes the same remarks about VR and high shutter. Even in the D4 manual I found a part where Nikon suggested to turn VR off when using shutters above 1/500s. I'll go even further and say VR negatively affects AF during continuous shooting. At least in the case of Tamron.

 

[mikew_RIP]

I had to dig. You might benefit reading this:

Nikon VR explained

He basically makes the same remarks about VR and high shutter. Even in the D4 manual I found a part where Nikon suggested to turn VR off when using shutters above 1/500s. I'll go even further and say VR negatively affects AF during continuous shooting. At least in the case of Tamron.

Thats one guys possibly intelligent observations,how ever he does go on to say that the people who have shots that disprove that are the ones with hand holding technique shortfalls,i would fall into that category,my age physical ability's mean there is no way i will ever improve my hand holding it will in fact get worse,this is where i tend to lose patience with the idea that one persons ways are right for every one and that is the only way it should be done.
We should only ever offer considered or knowledgeable advice and leave room for people to work as close to that as they can.