D800 sensor dirt accumulation

I've had a D800 for just over a year now and I've been having difficulty with a dirty sensor almost the entire time. I'll summarize the interactions with Nikon below. More detail is available upon request. I am looking to see if anyone with deep experience with Nikon and the D800 has suggestions about how to proceed.

The sensor accumulates a combination of regular dust and oily spots originating from within the camera. I and several professionals who have looked at the images believe that round spots that resemble a donut with a dark center, a lighter splatter area, and an outer dark ring some of which splatter into an arc when blown are oily droplets rather than simple dust. Naturally the smaller the aperture the more they are visible. They get very noticeable at about f10. Since I shoot a lot of landscape, micro, and some very long exposures (e.g. waterfalls) I have need for small apertures.

The camera is at more than 23,000 shutter activations.

Here are three images in reduced size with links following to higher-resolution versions. The original JPGs at the links are full FX sensor size 4912x7360. The JPG images are from after the fourth repair. When the camera came back from repair 4 the sensor was clean. It took one image for an oily spot to show up. Upon receiving the camera the image with 1125 was taken. I then did a series of six 15-minute time lapses that involved another 5400 shutter activations. The images 1138 (f32) and 1139 (f22) were taken immediately after the time lapses. So, all the accumulations occurred while the camera was on a tripod with no lens changes and no changes in focus.

Initial image taken after Nikon's fourth "repair" cleaning (at F22):



After six 15-minute time lapses totally 5400 exposures:

F22 version:



F32 version:


Links to full-size versions of above images:

http://www.mdbgroup.com/Nikon/Nikon-D800-1125-initial-image-after-repair-4-F22.JPG
http://www.mdbgroup.com/Nikon/Nikon-D800-1139-After-Repair-4,-5400-Exposures,-F22.JPG
http://www.mdbgroup.com/Nikon/Nikon-D800-1138-After-Repair-4,-5400-Exposures,-F32.JPG

Earlier in time, before the fourth repair I did a 90-minute time lapse to look at dirt accumulation during a single time lapse. The D800 with a freshly-cleaned 105mm AF-S micro lens set to F22 with a fixed white balance (sunlight). Manual focus, set to infinity. The camera was tripod mounted. A beige wall was lit with two 300 watt CFL studio lights. With the camera at F22 on aperture priority the camera selected a shutter speed of about 0.6 seconds. A time lapse was done with one image per second for 1.5 hours at JPG Large Fine. This produced 5,400 images that the D800 combined into a 180-second MOV video.

The video is available in two dimensions. The smaller is 11MB but more difficult to see. The larger is 30MB and may take quite a while to download for viewing. SAFETY PRECAUTION FOR THE VIDEOS - please note there is flicker from the CFL lights. If you are sensitive to flicker please do not watch the video - just look at the JPGs.

www.mdbgroup.com/Nikon/Nikon-D800-90-minute-time-lapse-105mm-before-repair-4-AFS-F22-854x480.mov
www.mdbgroup.com/Nikon/Nikon-D800-90-minute-time-lapse-105mm-before-repair-4-AFS-F22-1280x720.mov

The camera has been in to Nikon for repair four times. I have also written to the President of Nikon USA who just referred me to a senior customer service rep. They will not acknowledge that any of the dirt is oily nor that the shutter mechanism may be the source. They insist all the accumulation is environmental dust. They say all they can do is continue to clean the camera.

Ideally this would be fixed so that the oily accumulations stop occurring. Absent that I've started building quite a set of equipment to clean the sensor on my own...

I am looking for your recommendations how I should proceed and whether there is a way to resolve this problem.

Sorry to hear about this issue with your camera.

IF it it was me, I would rather do my own wet sensor cleaning instead of sending the camera to Nkon.

Welcome to the world of 600's. haha. I'm with Glen, in learning to clean it would be very valuable, and save you a lot of time without your camera. If your not satisfied, give it another swab.

I have about 20k clicks on mine. Gave it a cleaning at 10k and that has been it thus far. Knock on wood I guess.

I resonate with the comments about doing my own cleaning, especially given Nikon's response so far.

But the amount of dirt seems extraordinary. It tends to be visible only at apertures smaller than about F10. Even at that, it really starts showing up at about F16. For me, small apertures come into play for landscape, micro, and very long time exposures. I'd expect most of us do at least some shooting with smaller apertures.

Yet the lack of many others with similar problems seems to suggest my camera is a bit unique. But, then again, not in Nikon's eyes. They view it as normal. Quite a dilemma.

If you shoot you're going to get dirt. Six 15 minute exposures sequences comes to 5400 seconds, so I'm assuming each of your exposures was somewhere around 1 second. Even if they were 1/2 second you're talking about 45 minutes where the shutter is open after the mirror spend some time flapping around. Depending on where you are, even a closed system is going to be effected. if you're shooting waterfalls or anything where the ambient air is moist then it's going to get into the camera, if only slightly, so stuff like this doesn't surprise me. It seems any time I'm shooting long exposures, particularly with Live View, I finish off with a sensor that needs cleaning. Unless you can guarantee that you started with a pristine camera in front of the shutter then all that time is going to result in dust that was formerly in front of the mirror/shutter moving behind it and onto the sensor, and in a damp environment it's more likely to stick.

As folks have said, learn to clean your own. It's not that hard.

The exposures were 1/15 second which does still add up to 6 minutes, yes.

Your reasoning accounts for environmental dust although not for what many except Nikon believe to be oily spots such as on the following close-up of four spots from the 1139 image above.



That is the core concern, similar to what seems to have been the problem with the D600 and some earlier models. Indeed, cleaning on my own is better than sending it off to Nikon. Even better would be a camera that does not continue to generate oily spots presumably due to its shutter mechanism.

So I would be interested to hear if others inspect the original images or video clips. Do you believe these to be all conventional environmental dust or a mix of environmental dust and oily accumulations? Why?

Thanks,
Pete

Having cleaned a LOT of oil and dust from my D600 I look at your photo here and am compelled to say that while what I see here looks like there's a combination of moisture and dust, it looks nothing like the issue I had with the D600. The oil spots were of a more consistent density. The one in the upper left almost looks like an impact crater, with a ring of moisture spread by the particle in the middle. The specks at the bottom right appear to be more larger particles that stick out from the sensor (hence the soft edges) and not oil and dust. That's more a guess, but again they are very dissimilar to what I saw on my D600.

Unfortunately, I don't seem to have any of the old dust reference photos from that time. I can only point you to these two posts I made when finding spots on my D600.

http://nikonites.com/d600-d610/12495-post-repair-dust-spots-dammit.html
http://nikonites.com/d600-d610/14077-nothing-like-shooting-hdr-show-your-dust-back.html#post156922

As you can see these spots are much larger and concentrate in corners. And remember, we're talking two FX sensors, so even though the D800 has more MP's, the surface area is the same, so the size of said spots would be consistent if the problem was the same. I took your full res photo and pulled it into PS and it's difficult to see your spots until I zoom to 100%. Oil spots are immediately apparent, no zooming necessary, and tend to be concentrated in the corners of the sensor, and usually the upper left.

I have to side with Nikon and say that your sensor is simply dirty and shows no evidence of a specific problem other than showing evidence of dust on the sensor, and particularly the D600 issue. I've got a D800 and that's what my sensor looks like when it's dirty. When you say that the video was taken just after the camera was "freshly cleaned". That may mean the sensor was clean, but it does not mean that there were not dust particles in the camera, and if there are, 5400 mirror flaps are going to move them around, and some of them will wind up on the sensor. I'm not saying you don't have a potential issue, but I'm confident that if you do it's not the same issue experienced on the D600.

Just curious, have you tried using a bulb blower and taken before and after dust reference shots? Spots from oil or other wet causes will almost always persist in before and after shots, but so will things like sticky pollen particles, which you're bound to get if you shoot outdoors. Most plain dust will either be removed or at least move when using a bulb blower, so check some before/after shots with that and it will at least help you a bit with the diagnosis. But as a fellow Jersey shooter I can attest to the fact that there's plenty of particles around to sneak into your gear, and if I'm shooting out in the woods or in fields I'm dealing with pollen half the year, and then cold weather induced ion-charged dust from crumbling leaves and breaking stems and seed pods the rest of the year. I'm constantly blowing my sensor clean and I've done 3 sensor cleanings on my D600 and 2 on my D800 this year alone. Part of the price of doing business.

If you are looking to do your own cleanings I'd suggest waiting until a couple of us get our sensor gel sticks, which should be delivered in the next week or so. I've used a wet cleaner previously which works great but the wipes run about $3-4 each and a cleaning often requires more than 1. This holds promise to be a much easier and cost effective solution.

Hi Pete,

i too have a D800. Non of the above is a show stopper. I get dirt and oil on the sensor all the time from use.

i use a dry cleaning kit you can buy online for $60. Works like a charm. I am not a fan of wet wipes mostly due to the possible issues you might have. Many use them without trepidation.

Learn to clean your own sensor, forget Nikon. Much faster, cheaper and not much to it. Some where on Nikonites, I think I did a review of the kit I have, name escapes me at the moment.

Hi everyone,

Useful inputs, examples, and perspectives. Thanks.

I've had quite a few larger spots such as you showed.

I sometimes wonder if the predominance of spots in the top and corners is more due to the lighter sky being up there and spots being less visible in darker parts of the scene...

Jake - you asked about blowers. Absolutely. The spots you see don't move with a blower. Most spots I get don't and aren't even affected by an Arctic Butterfly. There have been a few large ones that a blower turned into an arc of successively-smaller spots. As in a blob of oil being blown out in an arc by the blower's breeze.

I've had decent success with Visible Dust's products - mostly the Arctic Butterfly II for dust particles, green swabs, corner swabs, Smear Away, and VDust Plus. I find their loupe low build quality and get much better results with Carson's less-expensive highly-adjustable SM-44 5X LED loupe.

I saw mention in one of Jake's links the idea of using a blower to clean the mirror chamber (mirror down) when changing lenses. Seems a useful idea.

I too have one of the gel sticks coming. Should be interesting although I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it works well on oily or sticky spots. Then again, I hope trying it on one doesn't get the gel stick too dirty and wreck it.

Photowyzard - I searched and found your review of the SensorKlear kit. Seems interesting, and it cleans oily, wet, or sticky spots? I'll look at it more closely.

PeteB said:

I sometimes wonder if the predominance of spots in the top and corners is more due to the lighter sky being up there and spots being less visible in darker parts of the scene...

Click to expand...

Pete, when I was having problems with my D600, I took test photos of the bed sheet--a plain light blue material that was consistent in color. You can also use a plain light colored wall or tape up white paper to use. That way the entire photo is more uniform in color and shading for a better analysis.

PeteB said:

The exposures were 1/15 second which does still add up to 6 minutes, yes.

Your reasoning accounts for environmental dust although not for what many except Nikon believe to be oily spots such as on the following close-up of four spots from the 1139 image above.

View attachment 63834

That is the core concern, similar to what seems to have been the problem with the D600 and some earlier models. Indeed, cleaning on my own is better than sending it off to Nikon. Even better would be a camera that does not continue to generate oily spots presumably due to its shutter mechanism.

So I would be interested to hear if others inspect the original images or video clips. Do you believe these to be all conventional environmental dust or a mix of environmental dust and oily accumulations? Why?

Thanks,
Pete

Click to expand...

What is shown here is termed as 'welded dust' its basically dust that has gotten wet some how either via moisture (humid areas) or possible oil which has collected the dust. I live in a humid environment where at present the humidity hovers around 80-90%, I get lens fogging and some welded dust but not much. My Sensorkleen from lenspro removes all of this so I am presuming its not oil as oil would smear.

PeteB said:

Hi everyone,

Photowyzard - I searched and found your review of the SensorKlear kit. Seems interesting, and it cleans oily, wet, or sticky spots? I'll look at it more closely.

Click to expand...

Pete,

Yes, it cleans it all. My sensor was easily 4 times dirtier than yours, cleaned it easily. I was told, when I was demoed the kit, to only stroke in one direction, lift, go back stroke it the same way again.

Works very nicely.

The pad on the wand is similar to the ones people buy to wipe their iPads or iPhones. I am more careful these days removing and attaching lenses so I have to clean it less often.

1) have the body always pointing down when I take a lens off.
2) I always have the lens caps ready to be put on
3) I use the Rocket Blower much more.

Dust bunnies have decreased in frequency. Tiny oil spots still show up but much much less. Yes, Nikon (at some point, Nikon, you are going to have to admit this) had an issue with drops of oil coming off the shutter. I don't care what they say, but it has substantially decreased if not outright disappeared with use.

This kit took the stress of spots on the sensor away because it is an easy clean and the risk of damage is minimal. Just remember, apply very light pressure, stroke in one direction only, lift return and do it again until it is clearer of dirt, oil etc.

I have an Arctic Butterfly. I will pass that over the sensor 2nd…I use the air blower first (Rocket is the best), then clean the oil. You know it is oil because the Butterfly will smudge oil, but remove the dust.

Good luck.