Steve Perry Article on the New D7500

[pforsell]

The D5000 line is the best selling Nikon camera line. On the other hand the D3000 line is really struggling, despite being cheaper than ever. I mean, one can get a 24 mpix DSLR with a lens for 299 at my local brick & mortar store. The first Nikon with 24 mpix was 8000 without lens.

The situation might be that the imagined 'entry level buyer' doesn't exist anymore because of phone cams. Buying a separate camera, a complex and bulky one, requires some amount of enthusiasm to begin with.

Looks like Nikon is moving the DX line up a notch, with a bit higher price point.

The lineup was D7200, D5600 and D3400. The conclusion Nikon made was that because D5600 sells well and D3400 not at all, they should concentrate on the enthusiast models (7 and 5 series) instead of the entry level that has disappeared.

The new lineup is D500, D7500 and perhaps a new line that takes the best of 5-series but maybe at a little lower price. Perhaps named D5700 to sound more upmarket, perhaps D4500 to signify a new product line. In any case I doubt that Nikon will keep 4 lines of DX cameras in production.

 

[Leif]

Isn't that picey for entry level?

Are you saying the D7500 is entry level?

I do agree the D7500 is overpriced though the price may well drift downwards once the initial demand slows, assuming there is initial demand given the comments here ...

 

[Leif]

On the other hand the D3000 line is really struggling, despite being cheaper than ever. I mean, one can get a 24 mpix DSLR with a lens for 299 at my local brick & mortar store.

It is astonishing for what you get. And yet the D300 might be the drug that gets the user hooked, and she then moves onto harder substances such as the D7500. So perhaps the D3XXX should not be judged in isolation. Of course this might be wrong thinking, only research can determine the truth.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

You can only rehash something so much before it gets lackluster. That being said, I think Nikon is shooting itself in the ass again by not including an option for a grip on the 7500 line. Nikon is going backwards in all of it's development of several of its new bodies. Number 1, no second SD slot, #2, no opportunity for a grip. That signifies that to me, Nikon has hit a crossroads where those options are going to mean that they're premium bodies if they come ready to fire on all cylinders. Nikon doesn't want to create a problem free body because that would stop the hunt for the perfect camera. That would dramatically slow sales. So, when Nikon gets to a certain point in development, they choose to go back to the beginning. I kinda wish I hadn't sold my D7100 now. It was a great camera for what it was. The D500 has more features, sure, but it too, has it's limitations. It has a red headed stepchild in having two different card slot sizes. What kind of mental freak decided on that kind of solution?

 

[jay_dean]

It has a red headed stepchild in having two different card slot sizes. What kind of mental freak decided on that kind of solution?

I think the idea was to give the option of getting the maximum out of the D500 the choice of using XQD cards is there. They are painfully expensive tho, and many would also need to invest in a new card reader on top. My D810 and D4 also have different card slot sizes so its nothing new really

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

I think the idea was to give the option of getting the maximum out of the D500 the choice of using XQD cards is there. They are painfully expensive tho, and many would also need to invest in a new card reader on top. My D810 and D4 also have different card slot sizes so its nothing new really

Does the d4 and 810 have xqd cards or cf?

 

[jay_dean]

Does the d4 and 810 have xqd cards or cf?

The D810 has SD and CF, and the D4 XQD and CF slots

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

The D810 has SD and CF, and the D4 XQD and CF slots

Well....if Nikon is gonna use two different slot cards, they ought to stick to only 2. The problem is shooting fps. If you're blasting off 10 fps using the xqd card, and you backup to the sd card, you're slowing the whole process down. What was 10 fps is probably only 8 fps after you account for the buffer filling faster using that combo.

 

[spb_stan]

There will be grips, just not from Nikon and might not have all the controls. The D70 had the same problem but a grip that extended up into the battery compartment allowed a battery grip and a small cable to attach to the accessory socket. The D90 had the same sort of grip that replaced the body battery and the Chinese makers could not build grips fast enough. It did not have the joy stick capability on the grip but AF-On function worked fine.
The price is bit excessive for the image processor and sensor combination. Anyone shooting events or sports who needed to send off JPGs right way knows the D500 rendering engine is great. In low light and high ISO is embarrasses my D800. The color fidelity and saturation in low light is GREAT.
When I switched from Canon film(A-1) to Nikon digital, my first cameras was a D90, still have it with 130,000 frames on it. That was $1396.00 back when the dollar was about 20% more valuable than now. So a new higher performance camera for $1400 is not outrageous.

The first accessory I ordered for it was a Chinese grip and it still looks like new. I added a D7000 several years later and have 110,000 frames on it and got a D800 a few months after it was released. All have grips and serve enough purpose for me to be an essential add on. Even though the D7500 has a lot of upgrades that would be useful, I would rather save a bit longer to get the D500. I don't shoot burst, but the AF performance and sensor/image processor makes it a desirable tool. Not having a dual card option is a problem for those using it for paid work but the rest of the features would probably be enough to sway some. I talked to a rep at B&H when my local dealer did not have grips in stock for the D7000 when I bought in the US, Action Camera in Roseville Ca...my plug for one of the last family owned high level of customer service and knowledge left in California....and the sales rep said B&H had a hard time keeping the Chinese grips in stock since they sold more grips than tripods.

I know here, they are a standard accessory, and about the only time seeing a D7x00 or D8x0 without a grip is on group bus tours. The local photographers seem pretty serious about their photography, while not buying a lot of D5s, they certainly buy a lot of D750s and D810s. Being a major tourist destination and photo rich city, a high percentage of tourists have more than a point and shoot. The D3x00 and D5x00 seem to be the majority but I see a lot more D750s and D810s than when visiting back in the US. I don't need another body but if had to get one it would not be the D7500, it would be the D500 plus a grip, but first need to save for a 105 1/4

 

[Dawg Pics]

Are you saying the D7500 is entry level?

I do agree the D7500 is overpriced though the price may well drift downwards once the initial demand slows, assuming there is initial demand given the comments here ...

Um, no. I was referring to another post that referred to it maybe becoming the new entry level camera, which confused me.
My apologies for not quoting the post I was referring to. Quote below.

For about two years now I have been helping out at the local photography school and I have seen exactly one gripped camera out of maybe 200 to 300 - one of the instructor's cameras. It makes me wonder if the D7500 is not going to be the new entry level offering.

 

[Samo]

That is exactly what I intended to say. Nikon has unequivocally stated in more than one press release they are retooling and focussing on no mirror and the high end.

If one looks hard enough across the net in some places, particularly in Japan and Asia, you will find mention of a posse of mirrorless units they are going to release all at once. There have been rumors about this for a few years now. They and Canon have already been playing with it. So what does it mean? If you ask me p&s will be replaced by no mirror compacts with Nikon branding and marketing crazy 3.0. Dslrs will be high end and depending how the 7500 and 850 or whatever does will determine how deep the dx and fx product lines go.

They must turn the boat around now. Really should have yesterday. We will see if it is to late or not probably by Christmas next year. Maybe Christmas this year if there are 3-5 no mirror models available for black friday/cyber monday.

 

[pforsell]

That is exactly what I intended to say. Nikon has unequivocally stated in more than one press release they are retooling and focussing on no mirror and the high end...

I personally have no hurry going to mirrorless. Either I am too demanding, or the others are blind. I just tested today a friend's Sony A7II EVF and was very was very disappointed in it. The image in the EVF is like looking at a Minecraft* video with stair-stepping artifacts and jaggies that move along with the subject. Unusable for me. And the autofocus... with moving subjects. Not ready for prime time yet.

I'll give the mirrorless tech the benefit of the doubt, and I'll check back in 5 years.


* Don't know Minecraft? See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvt2kquKRXQ

 

[Dawg Pics]

Since you don't have any sales numbers, all this is conjecture based on personal opinion. Just for fun I looked at the used D7100 on sale in ebay.co.uk, ebay.de, benl.ebay.be, ebay.fr and ebay.es There are 116 used D7100 on sale in Europe and three of those have the grip. Yes, the sample is limited both in size and temporal scope and proves nothing, but makes the "huge success" sound a little hollow.

I don't have a dog on this fight, but if by your own admission, looking at such a small sample of D7100s sold with a grip proves nothing, then it is like you put up your own straw man, knocked him down, and then followed it with meaningless conclusion. Spock, it just isn't logical.

Experienced people will navigate over to the model with the grip if it is important to them. Photographers who use a grip won't bother to look at it. It does seem to be a puzzlement to at least some as you can see by conversations on the net.

I just read the post by @spb_stan. I have no clue how after-market, third-party grips that may be developed will affect consideration of this model.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

I don't have a dog on this fight...

*Circular Reference Warning*
...

 

[Dawg Pics]

*Circular Reference Warning*
...

Touche', my friend.

 

[pforsell]

I don't have a dog on this fight, but if by your own admission, looking at such a small sample ...

I have no dog nor fight. I'm replying to posts. I couldn't think of more boring subject to fighting than some obscure camera grips.

I didn't prove anything, and I said so. No straw man either, just shooting breeze while waiting for the sales numbers showing huge success. This isn't a beauty contest, at least to me. I am interested in facts and would like to discuss about them with other interested parties. That's all.

When it turns into a shouting contest where the loudest person wants to have his way, I move along. Not interested in fights, only facts.

 

[Dawg Pics]

I have no dog nor fight. I'm replying to posts. I couldn't think of more boring subject to fighting than some obscure camera grips.

I didn't prove anything, and I said so. No straw man either, just shooting breeze while waiting for the sales numbers showing huge success. This isn't a beauty contest, at least to me. I am interested in facts and would like to discuss about them with other interested parties. That's all.

When it turns into a shouting contest where the loudest person wants to have his way, I move along. Not interested in fights, only facts.

Understood.
I agree, boring to look at grips.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you all are 't being civilized. Just a turn of phrase to suggest I really don't have a side with regards to battery grips being popular or not.

 

[Woodyg3]

LOL. I was gone for a couple of days and the thread kinda' went wild.

It's interesting how passionate people can get about new camera models. I think people have their own list of desired features and price point, and when the desires aren't met, they get upset. I'm certainly not immune to that. In this case, since I have a D500, I don't have any interest in a D7500 purchase.

From Nikon's marketing perspective, this camera makes a lot of sense in my opinion. It's mostly what you would expect from the little brother of the D500. If you want a sports/wildlife body but can't afford the D500, this is really a pretty attractive alternative. I scratch my head about the lack of a second card slot and optional grip. Still, if the D7200 was my main camera, I would gladly give up a card slot and grip for the bigger buffer and more FPS.

We'll know way more when the camera actually gets into people's hands, of course. It's always funny how much we camera geeks can talk about a new camera based on specs alone.

 

[spb_stan]

I am sure you are amused by the standard reaction to an announcement of being proof of Nikon being nuts since every new camera does not tick all the mental boxes of what a new camera ought to be, as I am. It happens to every model before it gets into hands of people who actually use it.
Every camera released since I started with Nikon has been a competent camera, all of them. And all were fretted over as being horrible bases on spec sheet driven opinions. The D500 might be the only one that had few complaints, such as price. All the others were terrible choices, and all turned out to be class leading.
Spec sheets in any field that has some technical element or reason to list measured parameters, and almost always way too much is read into them. Isolated specs,tested as an isolated performance value, is almost always misread, or imagined to somehow predict the overall operation of a complex system and it never does in my experience. Enjoyment and suitability of a complex system of hundreds of interactive parameters just does not collocate well to isolate spec values. To see if a car is interesting, exciting, confidence inspiring, enjoyable, suitable etc there is only one way to evaluate it...drive it a lot. Forget specs, too isolated from the complex interaction of thousands of variables to tell anything about how much you will enjoy driving it. Same with a camera. Every camera made is capable of gallery wall status images with a small house. If you enjoy using it and that makes you shoot more, it is a better camera than others that might have one or more spec values that are objectively "better"...but tells nothing of whether it is subjectively better. There is only one way to tell, use it, use it a lot..Reviews are often misleading, as are rating values, they seldom apply to your priority list or shooting habits.
I spent most of my life in professional audio as a designer EE, recording engineer/producer/major studio owner and few fields are more Spec driven yet less predictive of whether the total is satisfying. Often enjoyment gets lost in the sea of specs and technical rankings of isolated specs and enjoyment seldom has any relation to the spec sheet. Records I recorded with the highest praise by critics and multiplatinum awards were unrelated to their technical quality or perfection. One, which was disappointing on the technical side because of too many passed of the master tapes over the heads of the tape decks, technically clearing inferior to others, sold more than any album in history until Michael Jackson's Thriller album topped, 49 million album sales in the US alone, eventually 79 million world wide. There was no connection between enjoyment and technical refinement.
The same disconnect between specs and enjoyment with photographic equipment or finished photos. The D7500 is going to surprise a lot of people who are panning it. New owners are going to discover interactions between spec elements that actually are going to add to enjoyment, that don't appear to in the spec sheet. It is going to be a fine camera and in a year will be judged as the standard.
I suspect when people see how good D500 jpg rendering is in a prosumer camera it will be adopted by a lot of event and pro shooters for quick delivery assignments. After seeing how the D500 color fidelity and saturation holds up in low light like no other camera before the D500/D5 that alone will cause a lot of naysayers are going to be buyers in 6-12 months. I compared the D500 with my D800 in a low light event and was shocked how much better more usable without processing the D500 SOOC jpg's were.
The D7500 is going to be fine.

 

[JohnB]

Reading this thread gave me a headache so I went out to take some pics with my low res and low iso D300, I feel better now.