Starting a serie - first image

[Browncoat]

If you don't know what you want, and you don't know how to express to your subjects what kind of project this is, then how can you expect anyone viewing the images to follow along? It doesn't make any sense.

I mean, if you just want to take photos of people who are:

• Married 25+ years
• Age 50+

...and have no real direction, then it's not a photo project. You might as well just do a casting call and take snapshot portraits with a Polaroid or do street photos. We WANT to see a bit of you in the images. If you think that a themed project is just showing up and taking pics with no direction, wardrobe, posing, or any kind of input from the photographer, then you are missing the entire point.

If the goal is to show love, then show love. If the goal is to show how people who have been married a long time can fall out of love, then show that. Instead of having two people blankly stare into the camera, have them face opposite directions with their backs to each other. Have one sleeping soundly while the other looks angry or sad. Being in a couple's bedroom is about the most private experience a photographer can hope to capture (aside from point blank porn). I think you have the makings of a great idea, but what you have shown here is just confusing.

Talk to people who are open to doing a shoot like this. Ask them if they're honestly happy. Maybe he sits up on the computer all night and she doesn't like it. That's something you can photograph. Maybe she snores like a banshee. Perhaps he's a drunk. These are all things you can work with, but they're all going to need your direction and input in order to shine.

 

[wud]

If you don't know what you want, and you don't know how to express to your subjects what kind of project this is, then how can you expect anyone viewing the images to follow along? It doesn't make any sense.

This would mean me not posting anything until the project was done.

I mean, if you just want to take photos of people who are:

• Married 25+ years
• Age 50+

...and have no real direction, then it's not a photo project. You might as well just do a casting call and take snapshot portraits with a Polaroid or do street photos. We WANT to see a bit of you in the images. If you think that a themed project is just showing up and taking pics with no direction, wardrobe, posing, or any kind of input from the photographer, then you are missing the entire point.

I have 3 specifications: age, marriage, bed. Thats it.
I don't want this to be a project about how every 50+ married people love each other. Or every 50+ people are annoyed with each other. Everybody are different, I want to find out when visiting people, how THEY look in bed, feel, act - I dont understand why you want it to be so narrow? I mean, placing people in bed already limits a whole lot, all I am left with are a little different poses, different faces and hopefully - which should be why people would look at the images - different expressions.

Maybe you should see at it more as, looking at these people. Instead of me asking them to act like I want them too.
In the end you will of course see me in the series. After all, I pick out the final pictures.

If the goal is to show love, then show love. If the goal is to show how people who have been married a long time can fall out of love, then show that. Instead of having two people blankly stare into the camera, have them face opposite directions with their backs to each other. Have one sleeping soundly while the other looks angry or sad. Being in a couple's bedroom is about the most private experience a photographer can hope to capture (aside from point blank porn). I think you have the makings of a great idea, but what you have shown here is just confusing.

Talk to people who are open to doing a shoot like this. Ask them if they're honestly happy. Maybe he sits up on the computer all night and she doesn't like it. That's something you can photograph. Maybe she snores like a banshee. Perhaps he's a drunk. These are all things you can work with, but they're all going to need your direction and input in order to shine.

This part is finally something I can work with, thoughts instead of what you want to see or how you would do a project. As I wrote in the first post, I have been thinking about questions but since I am not sure about the direction, I cannot pick out the questions yet. These people know I am testing what works and what doesn't work, so they already know I might be coming back for more pictures - maybe even 2 times. Which they didn't mind. Lucky me

 

[Browncoat]

No matter how you try to spin it, if you have to explain what the photo is about, then you have failed.

If this is just some idea you're tossing around, I'm not sure why you posted it in the critique section to begin with. I, along with others, have noted that there is something missing here. Forget about the technical aspects of the photo. The feeling, and the message, are not clear. That's your critique. Whatever it is you were trying to accomplish here, it needs to go back to the drawing board.

I don't want this to be anything. I'm not trying to define it. I'm saying that YOU need to make it something and define it. As is, no one really knows what to make of it. You keep going back to the idea of doing this as a series of candids, and I'm telling you that is a mistake. You'll end up with a bunch of shots just like this, which leaves your viewers scratching their heads.

You want to meet with these people and have them invite you into their bedroom. The most private thing in someone's life, the holiest of holies. And then what? Smile at the birdie? Do you really expect people to open up to you and make a stellar photo by themselves? That's kind of what it sounds like to me. You just want to show up to press the button. It would be more interesting to let them keep your camera overnight and take their own photos.

 

[wud]

I think it's a little strange, you just assume how I work instead of asking.

Didn't know critique section was only for finished projects. Thanks for your time.

 

[Woodyg3]

I think that each couple will tell their own story in one way or another. If you feel uncomfortable looking at an image because of what message it conveys to you, then that is a powerful image. Unsettled thoughts or tension caused by viewing art is not a bad thing. We don't want all photos to be feel good images, do we? Why should all the images in a series follow one standard? Why only images of super happy couples in love; or all of hardened, bitter couples who no longer care for each other? There are both kinds of people in the world, so why can't this series show that?

Just my 2 cents here.

 

[hark]

cri·tique
kriˈtēk/
noun

• 1.
  a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.
  

  synonyms:

  analysis, evaluation, assessment, appraisal, appreciation, criticism,review, study, commentary, exposition, exegesis

I think posting this in the Photo Critique section was a good choice--NO question by me as to why you posted it here. You specifically asked for critiques based on the photo series being Lovers 50+, and that is exactly what you got (well...I say that loosely as you got a little more than you expected ). Hopefully you will take some of the constructive comments to heart and mold your idea into images that tell the story of Lovers 50+...no matter whether the story has a happy or sad ending. The project definitely sounds promising--and knowing your ability, I am looking forward to seeing how this develops.

 

[RON_RIP]

I too, will withhold comment until I see how the project progresses. A good idea but your vision will have to be the final arbitrator. I have great faith in you Mai and know you are capable into turning your series in to something memorable.

 

[Eyelight]

I get it or maybe I got it. This was kind of like posting a single page of a book, so I see it needing a little explanation as to the purpose of the book in order for someone to gain something form the single image (or set).

I also see the purpose of allowing the story develop as the story unfolds.

 

[wud]

I don't mind your thoughts about the image, critique, ideas you get - as long as it somewhat goes along with my intentions, not just what someone else would do. - I know Im not the best in the world explaining, but ask then, if you don't get what I am saying.

I get really annoyed about stuff like this: Do you really expect people to open up to you and make a stellar photo by themselves? That's kind of what it sounds like to me. You just want to show up to press the button.

As this is not anywhere near the way I work. Did it cross your mind, I didn't want to spill peoples personal thoughts on the internet? And I don't think I need to. Its not about what they told me, its about the image. You figure out what you see.


I KNOW one image doesn't make all the sense. Thats why I am doing a series. I want happy love, annoyed, angry, sleepy, calm, crazy, bored, tired, as I expect people to be different.

When posting, I thought people would say if the processing were bad, the composition could be better, maybe try this angle, and yes, what they saw when looking at the image but not how they would do the project. Its fine saying the title doesn't make any sense, maybe a huge mistake I even been thinking of a title when I haven't even met the people who will be on the images.

I got stuff I could use - both that you don't see anything in these images, but specially when Eyelight mentioned the direction of her eyes, which I couldn't put my finger on myself but that is so right and I will try something else for that. I find it very difficult placing 2 separate images next to each other, as I still want them to fit somehow.
There are one huge mistake: I forgot to ask her to remove her watch.

(Also. Don't know if it matters, I couldn't get my like bottom to function yesterday, but I do appreciate a lot of your comments).



Im just posting 3 images again. Separate and should be viewed separate. I would love, if someone would just say what they see when looking, one image at a time. What feelings you see - what feelings you get. If you get none at all, just write that, thats also useful for me.

 

[Michael J.]

When I look at the man I get: "What a boring Night" in my mind.

The woman, which looks into the camera, I get: "Where is he why is he coming home everyday so late".

The last, woman looks not in th ecamera I get: "I just need someone to talk. I feel lonely and lost".

 

[Browncoat]

You don't get to pick and choose what kind of critique you get, @wud.

If you only want affirmation and pats on the back, then don't post in the critique section. As I said before, I don't give two sh#ts what direction you take with this project. Only that as-is, there is no direction. If you have to explain what the photos are about, then you have failed. It doesn't get anymore cut and dried than that. No one cares how you work. No one cares what goes on behind the scenes. No one cares about the production crew, the caterer, or what kind of gas you put in your car on the drive over to the set. No one cares if your poured heart and soul into it, or if you just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

All that matters is the image.

What you have is an up in the air project with a few sample shots that may or may not be in line with your sort-of creative vision. That's it. And you expect us (or at least me) to fall into line and only offer up opinions on what you have checked off on your list as acceptable. I can't decide if your ego is bruised, or if you genuinely don't understand what it is I'm trying to convey here. Maybe this time I'll try going with an analogy:

You are showing us a few spare parts in the corner of your garage and are asking what we think of your 1967 Mustang. Yup, I know what that is supposed to look like. I get that you're undecided if you want Cherry Red or Electric Blue. I get that you have the capability of pulling it all off in the end, but right now, I just don't see it. There are too many missing components. I can't get past that there are only a few spare parts in the corner. The gap from A-Z is too large.

You want critique on technical merits? Gravy. The crop is slightly too tight, the posing could be more natural and interesting, and the lighting is at least 1/2 stop underexposed. Definitely needs a bit of fill lighting, or at least a bounce flash to highlight the top of the heads. Your lighting is very directional, and considering the context of laying in bed, lighting doesn't typically fall that way naturally. That being said, I like the hard contrast and grittiness. It adds to the value of your intended message. In particular, I want to see more of them. Bare chests (men), nite gowns, possibly even breasts if your female subjects are daring enough. The covers are pulled up a bit too far, especially on him since no arms are exposed. Leaves the impression that he's just a floating head.

 

[hark]

No one cares what goes on behind the scenes. No one cares about the production crew, the caterer, or what kind of gas you put in your car on the drive over to the set. No one cares if your poured heart and soul into it, or if you just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

*I* care. Speak for yourself, but do NOT speak for me.

wud, I highly doubt you will find writers who know every word, scene, and action that will get penned into their stories before they are written. Back when people used typewriters, it was common to see a photo of an author sitting at a typewriter with wads of crumpled up paper on the floor. Those wads of paper represented the number of times a writer started over and over. Like anything worth doing, quite often we need to adjust our sails to steer the boat...and you are doing just that. Keep it up, and those of us who are behind you will keep pulling for you. And those who don't like it can let the ol' Browncoat speak for them if they wish. :surprise:

 

[Patrick M]

I think the photo looks like two photos put together and there's no emotion. It would have more empathy had they at least have been looking at each other.
I like the tonality you've got though. Good idea.

 

[Woodyg3]

I get something a little different each time I look at these pictures. The man looks equally annoyed and amused to me. The first woman looks a little bothered by this intrusion into her personal life, and in the second she looks sad and thoughtful at the same time.

But, as I said, these images look different to me each time.

 

[Browncoat]

*I* care. Speak for yourself, but do NOT speak for me.

wud, I highly doubt you will find writers who know every word, scene, and action that will get penned into their stories before they are written. Back when people used typewriters, it was common to see a photo of an author sitting at a typewriter with wads of crumpled up paper on the floor. Those wads of paper represented the number of times a writer started over and over. Like anything worth doing, quite often we need to adjust our sails to steer the boat...and you are doing just that. Keep it up, and those of us who are behind you will keep pulling for you. And those who don't like it can let the ol' Browncoat speak for them if they wish. :surprise:

Did you keep a straight face when putting all of that together? Because I'm not buying it. You're being speculative, and it's a weak point that you didn't manage to expound on. You're going to sit there and tell me that you care a single iota when reading a story where it came from in previous drafts? "Gee, was this character's name always Isabella, maybe she started out as Clara? With black hair instead of blonde. Was this always set in the south? Was Vader always written to be Luke's father?" And that somehow adds to your enjoyment of the story or makes it complete?

Sure, as photographers we can all appreciate and identify with the process, and the struggles of. We can look in the catchlights of the eyes and get a feel for the behind the scenes stuff. But at the end of the day, when the chips are down, none of it matters.

 

[sonicbuffalo_RIP]

I can't believe anyone's wasting their time on this series. Hardly worth the words.

 

[hark]

Did you keep a straight face when putting all of that together? Because I'm not buying it. You're being speculative, and it's a weak point that you didn't manage to expound on.

In a nutshell, yes, I care and I had a straight face. I am surprised you'd even think otherwise. I care about the process that wud is going through and the pains she is taking trying to figure all of this out...perhaps some of us will even learn a thing or two from what she is doing; however, if people don't give a rats arse about the process, then they might miss any lesson that may come out of it.

 

[jazzjunkie]

Sometimes things that seem like a splendid idea in your head actually turn out to be complete idiocy. But it’s not until you take a leap of faith and put your ideas into practice that you can really know if they will work. There is a fine line between genius and getting hospitalised because your homemade Spiderman suit fails at the last minute.......

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Some of the posts in this thread are getting a little edgy for my liking and I'm flat out telling some of you to dial back the rhetoric. Yes, this is a critique forum and while critique should be critical, it should also be supportive. It's not always a matter of *what* you say, it's a matter of *how* you say it.

....