Should I step across from FX to DX?

Ta2Dave

Senior Member
How does a person who has never picked up an instrument in their life justify a $3000 PRS to take their first guitar lesson?

How does an old fart with bad reaction times justify a six-figure automobile that they'll never drive over 70mph, expect maybe on an interstate, to drive themselves to play golf on the weekends?

"Secret sauce" is not something hidden away and pulled out like a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle for only a special few on a special occasion, it's called technological advancement and it takes time and costs money. Full framed bodies always cost more because the sensors cost more to manufacture. Cropped sensors could easily perform as well as full frame if photographers were willing to live with 44% of the MP's. Nikon could have easily given you a DX camera that has the D750's high ISO capabilities if you were willing to shoot at 10 MP's.

Here's a 24x36 block grid over a photo, the unshaded 16x24 area represents the DX coverage.

View attachment 215426

Because the pixels are the same size you can easily collect the same light information, but at a cost of 56% of your image size. You want the same file size, same MP's, and would love to have the same "secret sauce". Well...

View attachment 215427

...now you have to cram all that goodness into a space that's 44% as big. That's a whole lot of physics to overcome. Oh yeah, I forgot, since it's a DX camera you also expect it to be cheaper. Where's that sauce bottle, I need to pour another shot to try and figure out why it is something is always supposed to be had for nothing?

Getting a DX camera that comes close to what Nikon did with the D750 sensor took time and money, which is why you now have a $2000 cropped sensor rig. What you have is a 10 fps beast that can shoot for(almost)ever in a sport or wildlife situation, and yet with the right glass can hold its own with full framed bodies. A DX body that doesn't prevent you from shooting in a needed situation is probably a photographer's greatest gift. With the right glass and proper skill it's probably the only camera you'd need.

So how can a slouch such as myself who spends far more than he makes on the photos I take possibly justify a D500 and a D750 (it's not a "backup", it's a second camera) for my photography? Because it's my photography - my art, my vice, and in many ways my voice. I write words - lots of words. I make music - lots of music. I've expressed myself in different ways throughout my life and for the last 5 years this has been the channel I've chosen - or I should say, the channel that's chosen me.

How does one justify the $50 bottle of wine when the $10 will get them just as drunk? Ah, because the person asking the question doesn't know enough to realize that "drunk" is just the end result and hasn't experienced enough to realize that there's a whole lot going on between Point A and Point B. One would certainly love to find a $10 fare for that same journey, but it's not an easy find. At the same time, the $50 bottle given to the unexperienced and uneducated palate wouldn't provide the same level of satisfaction because they don't have the points of reference to fully understand the nuances.

You need to do a lot of picture taking to know why something doesn't work for you. If you don't understand when you're up against your limitations and not your tool's then you need to spend more time with the tools you have. Once you grasp that then it's simply a matter of finding the right tool for the job. As I said above, I write words - lots of words. The true justification for having this combination is spewed across 4 years of posts here. The journey is documented. The data collected and presented. Geoff's been part of it - a sounding board at times as we've tackled similar questions at coincident times, often reaching opposite conclusions. Dig if you want.

This man knows his bourbon!

And guitars!
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Without quoting everything, the "average Joe" who spends any amount on anything without understanding to some level of completeness the capability of the tools they're purchasing, as well as what needs will be met by the tools, is just an idiot with a credit card.
 
Weight ......D810 + 28-300 equals a D7200 with an 18-140 at least for wedding work but boy is that 810 combination heavy.
The 7200 and 810 pics mix perfectly and you cannot tell which camera shot which...so if you are getting older and weaker you know what to do ...Personally I hate the D800 horrible noisy clunky thing ...810 I love it . My 800 is going when Nikon bring out something I like and all the extra weight of flash flippers and grips could go if it was not for the weddings....
 

salukfan111

Senior Member
Without quoting everything, the "average Joe" who spends any amount on anything without understanding to some level of completeness the capability of the tools they're purchasing, as well as what needs will be met by the tools, is just an idiot with a credit card.
again with the "no true scotsman" routine
 

Geoffc

Senior Member
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Specifically thanks Jake ( @BackdoorHippie ) and Pete ( @Blacktop ) as you both confirmed my thinking that it is not a completely crazy approach to take.

As we have just moved to a different part of the UK and will have a bit more time on our hands, I think we will see what we are actually photographing over the coming months to see if this approach fits with our actual usage.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
I think we all at one point or another get caught with this "the more pixels the better" marketing from different manufacturers. Wether we want or not, it keeps bugging us with the ultimate hope to produce better pictures. Unfortunately, more pixels do not produce better pictures. As a matter of fact, it can produce more bad pictures since if the technique isn't flawless it's going to show big time.

I can only speak for myself, but I've used the D80, 90, 7000, 700, 600 and Df and when I look at some of my shots done with the 12 megapixels D90 and D700, I just love the feel I get from these sensors. When I sold my D90 to get the 7000, I thought my prints would be much better but found out otherwise. I had more blurred images than before. Same with the D600, my lenses showed more flaws than with the D700. So even I had twice the pixel count, I can't say my images were twice as good.

For someone who needs high frames per seconds and great low light performance, I think the D500 is just a dream camera. The only culprit for me would be the size and weight. I'm not certain I'd rather take a D500 on travel. The D750 or D7200 would be smaller, lighter and probably more fun for amateur usage and travel pictures.

If you're a pro and live from the work you use your gear with, then you don't have much of a choice. You've just got to invest in the best and keep up with the Jones. For amateurs, anything from a D90 to a D750 is usually good enough, unless one is feeling insecure and hope the newer gear will secure his/her feelings about himself.
 

wornish

Senior Member
I think we all at one point or another get caught with this "the more pixels the better" marketing from different manufacturers. Wether we want or not, it keeps bugging us with the ultimate hope to produce better pictures. Unfortunately, more pixels do not produce better pictures. As a matter of fact, it can produce more bad pictures since if the technique isn't flawless it's going to show big time.

Have to disagree a 36mp picture when reduced to 1024 pix long edge doesn't show any more flaws than a 10mp one. But you can do amazing crops. If you want to shoot wildlife then DX beats FX for reach and for frame/sec.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Have to disagree a 36mp picture when reduced to 1024 pix long edge doesn't show any more flaws than a 10mp one. But you can do amazing crops. If you want to shoot wildlife then DX beats FX for reach and for frame/sec.
I know, but then if you are going to reduce to 1024 on a regular basis, you don't need all those pixels that could cost you twice as much. You could get better lenses for that money spent on a body that will be outdated about 3-4 years after.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
So why did you say they produce more bad pictures if you know it's not true?
Ah, just because when you get such a megapixel beast one usually hurries to the computer and looks at his files at 100%. And sees a bit of blur and thinks... Oh my, this thing is not as sharp as I thought it would be. Shutter speed, mirror slap, camera movement, all these factors exist with most cameras, but the higher the definition, the most they will be apparent.
 

Bukitimah

Senior Member
This is a very interesting thread and the reason is simply because we are constantly thinking of the next 'upgrade'.

As far as technology wise, I am sure the performance will be getting better and better especially the sensor. As to 'should you' will be a very difficult question but with Al the spare $, why not?

For me coming from d300 to d610. Yes it does makes a lot of difference. At some point, I am sure the gaps are getting closer. Than we need to start another war. The lenses.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
The only culprit for me would be the size and weight. I'm not certain I'd rather take a D500 on travel. The D750 or D7200 would be smaller, lighter and probably more fun for amateur usage and travel pictures.

Truth is, if you're shooting with a D750 the D500 is the more seamless companion in terms of size and ergonomics. Having tilt screens on both and the same deep grip, the only difference is the pro setup of the controls. Weight difference is only 3 oz. and while it is bigger than both the D7200 and D750, it's just barely bigger than the D750 and it's sealed for those vacation days where the weather doesn't quite cooperate. But I suspect the cost is prohibitive simply for "amateur usage and travel pictures", and the functionality may indeed be far more than is needed.
 
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