Post your birds (2)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marilynne

Marilynne

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
dsc_0442_01.jpg
 
S

Stoshowicz

Senior Member
Elliot87 said:
I don't know? Pretty hard to gauge what its preference is from one photo. I might have misunderstood your point maybe, thought you were suggesting litter is ok?
Click to expand...

Well working with whats in the pic, there appears to be vegetation , she doesnt appear to be clipped, and can fly swim or walk somewhere else. But they have cozily curled up to nap on the concrete. If there ever was a picture of contentment so pure , I havent seen it recently.
Litter looks unappealing to me... but ,, I think some things need to be taken with a grain of salt. Every person is not going to be perfectly neat , so one should not really expect the urban environment to be pristine. Perfect isolation of animals from people , just isnt feasible , there is GOING to be overlap or the animals will just have nowhere to be. A retention pond, a highway median , even rooftops and parks need to be considered dual purpose now. The photo shows the new reality, and if one is willing to concede that Utopian idea that pristine wild nature,, preserved human impact free, just isnt in the cards,, well then a new paradigm need be seriously considered. Compromise, tolerance, proactive improvements on natural areas , and so forth. Animals often like what we do , dont care much about some trash , and the real impact of the pollution is to make our own place ,an ugly mess, TO OUR OWN EYES.
 
E

Elliot87

Senior Member
Stoshowicz said:
Well working with whats in the pic, there appears to be vegetation , she doesnt appear to be clipped, and can fly swim or walk somewhere else. But they have cozily curled up to nap on the concrete. If there ever was a picture of contentment so pure , I havent seen it recently.
Litter looks unappealing to me... but ,, I think some things need to be taken with a grain of salt. Every person is not going to be perfectly neat , so one should not really expect the urban environment to be pristine. Perfect isolation of animals from people , just isnt feasible , there is GOING to be overlap or the animals will just have nowhere to be. A retention pond, a highway median , even rooftops and parks need to be considered dual purpose now. The photo shows the new reality, and if one is willing to concede that Utopian idea that pristine wild nature,, preserved human impact free, just isnt in the cards,, well then a new paradigm need be seriously considered. Compromise, tolerance, proactive improvements on natural areas , and so forth. Animals often like what we do , dont care much about some trash , and the real impact of the pollution is to make our own place ,an ugly mess, TO OUR OWN EYES.
Click to expand...

Of course wildlife can utilise man made structures, sometimes by preference and sometimes because they don't have a choice. Our buildings make artificial cliff faces, great for birds like pigeons (Rock Doves) to nest on. For other species urban sprawl is a disaster. There is no excuse for people deliberately dropping litter, sure some gets blown out of bins or dropped by mistake, it will always exist but we shouldn't tolerate the deliberate act of littering.
We have the intellect that other animals generally lack, to know the harm our litter can cause. A bird will swallow a piece of plastic not knowing that it will get blocked in its digestive system and eventually kill it as more accumulates, so the fact it doesn't appear to care about the litter is irrelevant.
Here is a quick google search to demonstrate why our waste is a problem. These picture paint a thousand different words to the one we're initially commenting on.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=b...a=X&ei=TWFWVYbLH8GysQGP6IDIAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
 
S

Stoshowicz

Senior Member
Elliot87 said:
Of course wildlife can utilise man made structures, sometimes by preference and sometimes because they don't have a choice. Our buildings make artificial cliff faces, great for birds like pigeons (Rock Doves) to nest on. For other species urban sprawl is a disaster. There is no excuse for people deliberately dropping litter, sure some gets blown out of bins or dropped by mistake, it will always exist but we shouldn't tolerate the deliberate act of littering.
We have the intellect that other animals generally lack, to know the harm our litter can cause. A bird will swallow a piece of plastic not knowing that it will get blocked in its digestive system and eventually kill it as more accumulates, so the fact it doesn't appear to care about the litter is irrelevant.
Here is a quick google search to demonstrate why our waste is a problem. These picture paint a thousand different words to the one we're initially commenting on.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=b...a=X&ei=TWFWVYbLH8GysQGP6IDIAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
Click to expand...

Yeah I can see that view clearly too. But what I said is not the normal lecture one sees on TV. Many people, , and I know these folks personally , are really sick and tired of the 'environmentalists'. At first I didnt understand ! I was like.. how can you not see that pollution is bad , people are an evil scourge ! blah blah blah , Im sure youve heard it. Anyway ,, if one is going to win over those folks who rebel at the browbeating , I think one has to understand what their gripes are,, and number one is , ridiculous expectations. To win the 'hearts and minds' of as many as possible , I dont think its in the best interests of environmentalism.. to keep banging on the same drum. Its not just pigeons Im talking about.
If I go to the beach there are people , and there are terns , they share the beach.. dividing the beach instead means that the terns are going to end up with a tiny little strip. That protected strip is good , but more is better. If you tell everyone all the beaches are reserved for terns during the summer, they are going to say screw the terns, they can go somewhere else.
In places , the deer population has gotten out of control , but , you cant cull the numbers because of extreme hands off views, so they strip the forest. Near me , You may not be able to build an important road, because five or six tortoises have decided to burrow in the right-of way. If there isnt compromise , you end up with a backlash. And extremism either way , doesn't compromise. Consider Siamthais swans , to an extremist , all those swans gotta go , ( as far as I know mute and black swans are not endemic to Thailand) to a compromiser , theyre beautiful, they increase appreciation for wildlife , help keep the weeds down and... why not just leave em to live too ?
 
Last edited:
E

Elliot87

Senior Member
Stoshowicz said:
Yeah I can see that view clearly too. But what I said is not the normal lecture one sees on TV. Many people, , and I know these folks personally , are really sick and tired of the 'environmentalists'. At first I didnt understand ! I was like.. how can you not see that pollution is bad , people are an evil scourge ! blah blah blah , Im sure youve heard it. Anyway ,, if one is going to win over those folks who rebel at the browbeating , I think one has to understand what their gripes are,, and number one is , ridiculous expectations. To win the 'hearts and minds' of as many as possible , I dont think its in the best interests of environmentalism.. to keep banging on the same drum. Its not just pigeons Im talking about.
If I go to the beach there are people , and there are terns , they share the beach.. dividing the beach instead means that the terns are going to end up with a tiny little strip. That protected strip is good , but more is better. If you tell everyone all the beaches are reserved for terns during the summer, they are going to say screw the terns, they can go somewhere else.
In places , the deer population has gotten out of control , but , you cant cull the numbers because of extreme hands off views, so they strip the forest. Near me , You may not be able to build an important road, because five or six tortoises have decided to burrow in the right-of way. If there isnt compromise , you end up with a backlash. And extremism either way , doesn't compromise. Consider Siamthais swans , to an extremist , all those swans gotta go , ( as far as I know mute and black swans are not endemic to Thailand) to a compromiser , theyre beautiful, they increase appreciation for wildlife , help keep the weeds down and... why not just leave em to live too ?
Click to expand...

I agree compromise is necessary and especially in urban areas we need to do more to integrate nature within man made structures. I was a warden on a nature reserve. The year before there was back lash about a dogs on leads everywhere policy to reduce disturbance to nesting birds, it didn't work. When I was there the policy was more dog walker friendly with only the most sensitive areas restricted and other areas not restricted at all. That had much better outcomes as people followed the rules a lot more. I got the impression that you were suggesting litter is fine and not a problem at all but I don't think that is what you were getting at. Anyway that's the last I'll say about it here as it is a photography thread and forum after all :)
 
N

nzswift

Senior Member
Someone posted some pix of a swallow... In NZ we call them Welcome Swallows. Sign of Spring.... These guys dart just everywhere almost impossible to track. Did my best with what I thought was the wrong lens but with any other longer would not have got the shot at all. Found out they can never land on the ground because their wings are so long they hit the ground and can't generate any lift... a bird that is destined to fly and perch....

swallow down.jpgswallow glide.jpg
 
Last edited:
E

Elliot87

Senior Member
nzswift said:
Someone posted some pix of a swallow... In NZ we call them Welcome Swallows. Sign of Spring.... These guys dart just everywhere almost impossible to track. Did my best with what I thought was the wrong lens but with any other longer would not have got the shot at all. Found out they can never land on the ground because their wings are so long they hit the ground and can't generate any lift... a bird that is destined to fly and perch....

View attachment 157031View attachment 157032
Click to expand...

I don't know if your swallow species is different to ours but in the UK swallows land on the ground often to collect mud from the sides of ponds and puddles in order to use to build their nests.
Swifts are unable to land on the ground and only ever land in order to nest. I had to rescue several fledglings that didn't make it on their first flight and couldn't take off. Once thrown up into the air they were fine.
Like I say your swallows might be more like our swifts...
 
N

nzswift

Senior Member
Ours nest often under eaves, the local multi storey hospital has heaps of nests and swallow droppings on the balconies undearneath so maybe they are different. I'll check it out. They are not native so probably fly across the ditch from Aussie.
 
N

nzswift

Senior Member
Maybe they are fork tailed swifts.....
Swifts are fast flying birds that spend most of the year on the wing, only landing during the breeding season. Their legs are so short and their wings so long that they are unable to take off if they are placed on the ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top