Photoshop and Lightroom questions..

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Alright you two...

I don't want to jump the proverbial gun here, or squash a good debate, but if I say "break", I want a clean break. In the event of a knock-down, you will be directed to go to a neutral corner. You are both upstanding gents so I expect a good, clean conversation. No hitting below the belt, no rabbit punches and protect yourself at all times.

....
 

J-see

Senior Member
Alright you two...

I don't want to jump the proverbial gun here, or squash a good debate, but if I say "break", I want a clean break. In the event of a knock-down, you will be directed to go to a neutral corner. You are both upstanding gents so I expect a good, clean conversation. No hitting below the belt, no rabbit punches and protect yourself at all times.

....

I'm not interested in a fight. Mind you, I'm not too shabby at it but it just doesn't tickle me like it did.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I'm not interested in a fight. Mind you, I'm not too shabby at it but it just doesn't tickle me like it did.
Right. I don't see you two stripping to the waist and going at it bare-knuckled, but some of the comments were getting a little personal is all soooooooo...

Let's just chill on that.

Thank you.

....
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
I'm of the opinion that there's a huge difference in a post trying to determine something not known (i.e. the light leak thread) and a post where a novice is looking for learned information. No one knows anything concrete about the D750 light leak, so throw images and video up there because we're all trying to figure it out. But stating opinion as fact when someone asks for real information is a disservice to the original poster. When you teach do you realize you have to work 3-4x as hard to get someone to unlearn something they learned incorrectly than it is to teach them something new the right way the first time? It's not about nannying, it's about serving the forum rather than yourself. Like it or not there's a big difference between ,"LR is basically PS fleshed out for photography" (stated as fact) and "For me, LR feels like PS fleshed out for photography" (stated as opinion), particularly when you're the first one out of the box.

It wouldn't bother me so much (or be an issue at all) except that you don't think that it matters when you mislead someone, simply because they have a brain and can figure it out for themselves eventually. Easily 75% of the questions on this forum could be figured out by a quick search of Youtube and a full read of the manual, so we can rule out the idea of the OP ever figuring it out for themselves - they want a learned response. You have a lot of valuable things to say, and you're more than willing to go the extra mile to help with a problem, and I commend you for that. But with this I've got a problem with you, because I can't count the number of times I've gone to post an answer to something only to find that you've already dragged someone so far down a path of half-truth that it would take me more time to undo the damage already done than to have simply answered the question directly and correctly in the first place.
 

J-see

Senior Member
In another thread I responded something akin "shooting RAW without post processing is like cooking without spices".

People could yell at me saying I couldn't be more wrong because for cooking you need pots and pans and a stove. And did I ever see anyone use a chicken while processing RAW?

Yet even when my response wasn't literal truth, I doubt many didn't get it.

The same goes for this. Novice or not, about everyone knows what Photoshop is, at least where I live. It is that common it gained its place in the dictionary and photoshopping is a commonly used word.

When I then say I consider LR a fleshed out version of PS, that is not too different from cooking without spices, besides maybe more context appropriate.



The moment you complain, you're waving that chicken.
 

Lawrence

Senior Member
I have to agree with Jake on this one. Misinformation from a source that is considered reliable could well result in me walking away from something.

​My flatmate got started on elements 11 way before me simply because I wasn't ready to get on the treadmill that is the learning curve,

When I was ready to move on I was absolutely overwhelmed by what there was to learn and had I read that LR was "photoshop fleshed out for photography" I think I would have run a mile seeing as Elements 11 was such a struggle initially.

Fortunately I din't read that and on learning that LR was designed specifically for photographers (which I understand PS isn't) I was happy to take the step of subscribing for $10.00 per month. The fact that PS came as part of the bundle was a bonus that I could choose to ignore. I find that the two work well together.

I guess my interpretation of "fleshed out for photography" - given as a statement of fact from a superior source - would have been the deciding factor in me heading for the hills.
 

J-see

Senior Member
Let quit fooling around. This isn't about misinformation. There's nothing devastating about that reply. There's more than that one sentence and I suggested to test the trial. I didn't command him to do anything.

This is just an excuse to tiptoe around the real issue. I rub Jake wrong. It's rather obvious why. Considering the pomposity that seeps all through a previous reply, it's almost as if he considers himself a Photo Yoda and what Yoda says true must be. I'm an annoying little twat that has his own opinion and doesn't necessarily agree. If right or wrong is irrelevant. I have an opinion and speak my mind. If people can't handle that, too bad for them.

That's really all this is.
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
Okay, I'd like to ask you two to knock it off. I come to Nikonites rather than other sites because this crap goes on so infrequently here. You've both made your points, we get it, already.

I used to think there was no way I'd go for the $10 a month thing with Adobe, because I hate recurring charges and don't like cloud storage. Then I found out that the cloud part is totally optional, that updates are automatic, and when I thought of how much LR and Photoshop cost individually, I realized that this is a great deal. I haven't changed only because I have been using Aperture, and I don't look forward to transferring all of my files to a different system, and learning a couple of new programs. I realize that's my loss, because PS and LR are clearly better tools.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
You can find box copies of Photoshop CS6, but it's no longer being updated (all improvements since the CC announcement are only available by subscription).

I use CS6, and there are to be no updates to it, but it does still receive all the ACR updates (for new cameras and such).


Photoshop can be daunting, particularly with its layers, filters, tools and blend modes. Lightroom has none of those complexities. What it does have is a develop module containing the basic tools of Adobe Camera RAW, plus cataloging and workflow management functions, as well as multiple publishing and printing modules not available in Photoshop. It's almost nothing like Photoshop. It can remind you of it, and hell, it can remind you of Christmas, but it doesn't mean it's in any way the one product rearranged as another.

You want "Photoshop Lite"? It's called Elements.

I agree with Jake on this. Photoshop and Lightroom are not remotely alike, but they do both use the same ACR raw module. In that way only (for Raw processing), they are alike.

Photoshop is ACR with a very heavy photo editor attached. It does have Bridge, which is organized as a less sophisticated data base. Works for me. It leaves my images where I put them.

Lightroom is ACR with a heavy data base manager attached. I guess it does have the most minimal photo edit, only the very basics.

I know little about Lightroom. I tried very hard two times to learn to like it, but I failed. All that crap just gets in my way. I guess I have already learned to ignore all the crap in Photoshshop. :) But the ACR stuff is the same either way.
 

Lawrence

Senior Member
Lightroom is ACR with a heavy data base manager attached. I guess it does have the most minimal photo edit, only the very basics.

I know little about Lightroom. I tried very hard two times to learn to like it, but I failed. All that crap just gets in my way. I guess I have already learned to ignore all the crap in Photoshshop. :) But the ACR stuff is the same either way.

Learning it an learning to like it are definitely 2 different things. :)

Check out this video (47 minutes - sorry, but he is worth watching so "sorry" is kind of withdrawn!) which is the one that convinced me that there is a LOT more to Light Room than first meets the eye.

How To Get Started With Lightroom 5 - 10 Things Beginners Want To Know How To Do - YouTube

He's teaching style suits me and I find it easy to follow.
 

PapaST

Senior Member
Whoa whoa whoa... the misinformation in this thread is ridiculous. You CANNOT get a six pack of craft beer for $10. No way, no how. ;)
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
Learning it an learning to like it are definitely 2 different things. :)

Check out this video (47 minutes - sorry, but he is worth watching so "sorry" is kind of withdrawn!) which is the one that convinced me that there is a LOT more to Light Room than first meets the eye.

How To Get Started With Lightroom 5 - 10 Things Beginners Want To Know How To Do - YouTube

He's teaching style suits me and I find it easy to follow.

​I've watched that video several times.....very informative! Terry White is a very good teacher!
 
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