Old flashes - need help

hrphotography

Senior Member
so i guess when sunpak (using TTL) preflashes the slave goes off and sunpak responds to that light by lowering its power and the result is the photo is darker than with sunpak alone (without slave).....does that sound right ?
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
There has to be a way to put that Sunpak in manual mode. Read the instructions again as I've never heard of a flash that can't be used in full manual mode. It might be buried inside a menu somewhere, but it has to be in there and you have to use it in manual mode.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
so i guess when sunpak (using TTL) preflashes the slave goes off and sunpak responds to that light by lowering its power and the result is the photo is darker than with sunpak alone (without slave).....does that sound right ?

That is sounding possible, at least imaginably possible.

Digital TTL works by first triggering a low level preflash. The camera meters that preflash and determines a proper level to program for the final flash. Then it opens the shutter and fires the final flash at working level.

So the preflash also triggers the slave flash (it simply triggers at any flash it sees). So since it flashes when the Sunpak preflash occurs, it cannot influence the final flash. But the camera meters that combination of the two, and says "Wow! That was some preflash", and greatly reduces the flash it would have otherwise programmed.

I have never seen that effect occur, normally the slave simply does not register in the picture. But I have not spent much time false triggering a slave. :)

But why couldn't it happen? The camera does meter the preflash and set a corresponding final flash level.


There has to be a way to put that Sunpak in manual mode. Read the instructions again as I've never heard of a flash that can't be used in full manual mode. It might be buried inside a menu somewhere, but it has to be in there and you have to use it in manual mode.

Oh yes, there are some, and I think the PZ30X is one. There are inexpensive flashes that only do manual mode. There are even less expensive models that only do TTL... $50 class. They don't even have to provide a display and menu and buttons to set a manual power level. The camera does all the TTL work.

The PZ30X has buttons to program a flash compensation, a +/- EV difference from what the camera meters that it should do. But that is not Manual flash.
 
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hrphotography

Senior Member
@Marcel unfortunately no :(

i checked the manual, then searched online....this particular flash only works as TTL :(

but its ok, now i know more, will get better flash later :)

Thank you WayneF, Marcel & MikeD90 :)
 

hrphotography

Senior Member
so even though the camera is set to manual, the sunpak pre flashes & somehow adjusts (lowers) its final flash power after sensing the light (from the optical slave flash).
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Yes, the camera E3 menu only controls the cameras own internal flash. It does not affect a hot shoe flash, which ordinarily has its own menu (SB-300/SB-400 are the only exceptions, I think, part of the Nikon system).
If the camera flash door is shut, the camera E3 menu has no effect on anything, simply does not matter what it says then.

And yes, when the camera meters that TTL preflash, and instead sees also the Vivitar flashing, triggered by the preflash (and at much higher level than the minimum preflash), the camera thinks that was a very strong preflash, and programs the final flash much lower.

Said another way (and I am just making up numbers), but the preflash is a minimum power level, like maybe 1/128 power. The camera meters it and computes that the final flash ought to be, say.... about 5 stops stronger (say 1/4 power). So it tells the flash to increase its power level 5 stops for the final flash.

But if the Vivitar also triggers due to the preflash, maybe say at full power level. And the camera meters all this, and says (for example), wow! That preflash is a couple of stops too much already, and it tries to set a much lower the flash level. I don't know what its capability is then, but a much weaker flash could be expected.
 

hrphotography

Senior Member
got it...thanks :)
so when the built in flash is closed, and since sunpak has no manual mode, the TTL is still working....and lowering the final flash power because of slave.
thank you very much...for your time and help :)
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I don't think there is any way to use that Sunpak and the Viviatars together, but camera internal flash set to Manual flash mode would trigger the slave(s) on the Vivitar(s). Because there is no preflash in Manual flash mode.

Or, FWIW, both the Neewer and Yongnuo manual flashes mentioned also have a S2 slave trigger which knows to ignore a TTL preflash (and trigger at the second flash), so they could be used with that Sunpak.
 

aroy

Senior Member
I have a couple of 20 year old flash similar to these. They fire at full power. After you set the ASA and distance the dial/slider gives the F stop. That is all.
 

aroy

Senior Member
These older flashes have to be used off the camera, as their contacts pass through high voltage which fries the DSLR electronics.

The best use I find for them is as a slave flash for filling in the background. Either use a flash meter to check the exposure or a few trial shots will get it right.
 

Mike D90

Senior Member
These older flashes have to be used off the camera, as their contacts pass through high voltage which fries the DSLR electronics.

The best use I find for them is as a slave flash for filling in the background. Either use a flash meter to check the exposure or a few trial shots will get it right.

They work very well as the primary strobes as well as for fill. You can also place multiple flash units into one umbrella. Lots of possibilities.
 

hrphotography

Senior Member
received TT560, a very good non TTL flash, S2 mode works well with TTL light :)
i am very pleased with the built quality :)
anyone knows if there is a cable available for the charging socket?
 

WayneF

Senior Member
received TT560, a very good non TTL flash, S2 mode works well with TTL light :)
i am very pleased with the built quality :)
anyone knows if there is a cable available for the charging socket?

It may just be syntax, but there is no "charging cable". They call it a charging port, but the TT560 power port supports an external battery pack.

This external power pack does NOT charge the batteries. It is a high voltage power converter (around 300 volts DC) which charges the flash capacitor directly for faster recycle and longer battery life. It works in parallel with the regular power converter built into the flash unit (both recycle the capacitor, faster).
 
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