Ok, ok, you were right... Hehehe

F

Flugelbinder

Senior Member
I'm here to take back some things I wrote about not wanting to do any post processing on my images. After I got the D90, I started shooting RAW only, and I really thought I could "live" with the camera conversion. I guess I could, but I really want to "take the images to the next level", as many people mention.... That said, I hope you can forgive the arrogance (due to inexperience) and will be willing to share some tips or tricks on the workflow. I am thinking of getting the Lightroom, mainly because I "hear" it has an easy learning curve and it can deliver great results. Any thoughts/advice? Please keep in mind my extremely limited budget - I'm even considering an older version because of that... Thank you in advance. :)
 
D

Don Kuykendall_RIP

RIP :(
I shot JPEG only for a long time and did some PP. Had one photo that for some reason I shot JPEG fine and RAW. Outdoor at night under mixed street light. The JPEG was not usable no matter what I tried. The RAW I corrected in about a minute. That was my turning point. These Nikons we have are great but they still have some limitations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I'll just toss out that Adobe's Creative Cloud for Photographers membership comes with Lightroom and Photoshop for $10 a month. I know some people don't like the CC "concept" but I have CC both at work and at home and think it's great, personally. And with just one membership you can install both applications on two computers, which is nice.

As for Photoshop vs Lightroom, I learned Photoshop first and I still prefer it. What I don't like about LR is one it's "best" features; but I don't want anything "cataloging" my images for me, I do that myself; but that's me and how I work with my photos. There are several articles, videos, etc. that detail the differences between LR and PS and you should probably spend some time doing some research before you dive in and commit to one application or the other. I didn't find PS difficult to learn and don't know why it has a reputation for being difficult; I think it's all a matter of what you start out with. There are tons of videos and books and such that will get you up to speed quickly on either application.

......
 
Watoh

Watoh

Senior Member
Well I'm defiantly advise shooting in RAW. But obviously there is little point doing so unless you have some half decent post processing software.

I've been using Photoshop for years for web design work and Lightroom for about a year for my photography hobby. They are both excellent. Photoshop is complicated and has a lot of features that are not needed for 99% of hobbyist photographers needs, Lightroom is slick and easy to use but in my opinion lacks one very important feature, masks. But definaly that way to go if you are new and on a budget.

In regards to work flow... well that differs with regards of your images & taste. impossible to really give advise without photo examples. Generally I alter contrast, highlight & shadow exposure, vibrancy, noise, lens corrections etc etc.

Hope this helps.
 
W

WayneF

Senior Member
Flugelbinder said:
I'm here to take back some things I wrote about not wanting to do any post processing on my images. After I got the D90, I started shooting RAW only, and I really thought I could "live" with the camera conversion. I guess I could, but I really want to "take the images to the next level", as many people mention.... That said, I hope you can forgive the arrogance (due to inexperience) and will be willing to share some tips or tricks on the workflow. I am thinking of getting the Lightroom, mainly because I "hear" it has an easy learning curve and it can deliver great results. Any thoughts/advice? Please keep in mind my extremely limited budget - I'm even considering an older version because of that... Thank you in advance. :)
Click to expand...

Not sure it exactly matches your question, but if you have a few minutes, I'd offer Why you should shoot Raw

Raw will change your life.

This is Photoshop, but it shares the same Raw module with Lightroom.
 
N

nickt

Senior Member
Watch some of the free Lightroom training videos on the adobe website and then take the 30 day trial. You can check out Photoshop too or the cheaper Photoshop Elements. I'd watch some of the getting started videos first to get an idea of the features, then take one trial at a time. Its a lot to swallow and 30 days goes quickly. I'm not a cloud guy at this time, but the deal Horoscope mentioned is something to consider.
 
J

jwstl

Senior Member
Jonathan said:
Isn't Photoshop v Lightroom Apple v Windows, VHS v Betamax?
Click to expand...

No. Both Photoshop and Lightroom are from the same company, Adobe, and serve different purposes. For most photographers, Lightroom is all they'll need. It was built for photographers, is an excellent product with lots of great features, and is easy to learn. If you decide you need the power of Photoshop by all means check it out. But for someone just starting out with RAW Lightroom is nearly perfect.
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
jwstl said:
No. Both Photoshop and Lightroom are from the same company, Adobe, and serve different purposes. For most photographers, Lightroom is all they'll need. It was built for photographers, is an excellent product with lots of great features, and is easy to learn. If you decide you need the power of Photoshop by all means check it out. But for someone just starting out with RAW Lightroom is nearly perfect.
Click to expand...
Having used both Lightroom and Photoshop I would say the differences are MUCH more significant and would hardly call Lightroom "nearly perfect"... I about choked on my chicken salad reading that. So what about Photoshop is so difficult to learn, exactly? I ask because while I hear this repeated a lot, no one ever states what *is* about PS that is so difficult to master. This tends to make me think this oft-repeated phrase is just something being parroted by people with little or no ACTUAL experience using PS. One major thing about Lightroom that I do not like is that it doesn't allow you to work with either layers or masks. That, to me, is a huge practical downside of Lightroom right there.

.....
 
J

jwstl

Senior Member
Horoscope Fish said:
Having used both Lightroom and Photoshop I would say the differences are MUCH more significant and would hardly call Lightroom "nearly perfect"... I about choked on my chicken salad reading that. So what about Photoshop is so difficult to learn, exactly? I ask because while I hear this repeated a lot, no one ever states what *is* about PS that is so difficult to master. This tends to make me think this oft-repeated phrase is just something being parroted by people with little or no ACTUAL experience using PS. One major thing about Lightroom that I do not like is that it doesn't allow you to work with either layers or masks. That, to me, is a huge practical downside of Lightroom right there.

.....
Click to expand...

You might not have chocked if you'd actually read what I wrote. I said: for someone just starting out with RAW it's nearly perfect. But that doesn't fit your rant so i guess you need to take the parts that fit. I've used and taught Photoshop since version 2 and made my living doing so for 8-12 hours a day for years and I've also used a good number of RAW processors including Aperture, Nikon Capture, Capture One Pro etc. so I know of what I speak. For someone just now getting into RAW shooting Photoshop is too much and so are some of the other RAW processors. Lightroom is an excellent tool for Photographers both beginners and advanced but I highly recommend it to someone just starting with RAW because it's easy to learn and shows you what you can do with RAW files. When you want to learn more step up to the next level. As or layers, there are a number of tools that add layers and other features to Lightroom if you really need it.
 
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Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
jwstl said:
You might not have chocked if you'd actually read what I wrote. I said: for someone just starting out with RAW it's nearly perfect. But that doesn't fit your rant so i guess you need to take the parts that fit. I've used and taught Photoshop since version 2 and made my living doing so for 8-12 hours a day for years and I've also used a good number of RAW processors including Aperture, Nikon Capture, Capture One Pro etc. so I know of what I speak. For someone just now getting into RAW shooting Photoshop is too much and so are some of the other RAW processors. Lightroom is an excellent tool for Photographers both beginners and advanced but I highly recommend it to someone just starting with RAW because it's easy to learn and shows you what you can do with RAW files. When you want to learn more step up to the next level. As or layers, there are a number of tools that add layers and other features to Lightroom if you really need it.
Click to expand...
If you think I'm ranting now, wow... You should see me when I'm *actually* ranting.

I still don't know what it is about PS that's hard to learn but whatever... And so sorry if you felt I impugned your experience and depth of knowledge on all things PP related. Just giving my two cents worth.

.....
 
W

WayneF

Senior Member
The basics in Photoshop are not difficult, but most of the rest can become very arcane. For example, to create a simple animated GIF:

1. Files - Scripts - Load Files into Stack
2. Window - Timeline
3. Create File Animation
4. box corner - Make Frames From Layers
5 set times and rotation (and probably need to reverse order)
6. File - Save for Web - GIF

That's arcane. Nothing obvious or straight forward.

But... for any help you want, just search Google, and it is all there, in detail, in many versions. Adobes help too, but it is never the best help.

And Raw is its own module, rather different (and better) than the rest of Photoshop. It's awesome.

To me, Lightroom is arcane. I've tried 3 or 4 times to like it, and just cannot. I don't need a file organizer or data base... I want some tools for the basic stuff.
 
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wud

wud

Senior Member
Flugelbinder said:
I'm here to take back some things I wrote about not wanting to do any post processing on my images. After I got the D90, I started shooting RAW only, and I really thought I could "live" with the camera conversion. I guess I could, but I really want to "take the images to the next level", as many people mention.... That said, I hope you can forgive the arrogance (due to inexperience) and will be willing to share some tips or tricks on the workflow. I am thinking of getting the Lightroom, mainly because I "hear" it has an easy learning curve and it can deliver great results. Any thoughts/advice? Please keep in mind my extremely limited budget - I'm even considering an older version because of that... Thank you in advance. :)
Click to expand...

Another one bites the dust!! Yay! Yeah, raw files really needs PP, some is fun to process a lot, some are just as they should be. I see it as photography and PP works together, to show exactly what you want us to see.

I think LR is pretty easy to learn, but I mostly use Photoshop. I adoooore Photoshop. Its a huge program and even though I used it for years and years, I dont even know half of it yet. I think one of the reasons I use PS most, is because I work in layers, like Horoscope Fish explains.

I think LR has a trial period?! PS should have too, as I remember? For PS, you can find a lot of useful videos on Youtube, either specific question (how to brighten my image photoshop) or intro to the program itself.
 
hark

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Flugelbinder said:
That's about perfect... Thank you. So, Lightroom is indeed the best choice?
Click to expand...

I don't have the full version of Photoshop. I use Photoshop Elements 10 (I have PSE12 but don't yet have it installed). Photoshop (and Photoshop Elements) allow working with layers which I don't think is an option in Lightroom. That said, I'm not too fond of working with RAW in PSE10--I use PSE10 more for jpegs. Sometimes I will start with a RAW file in Lightroom then export it as a jpeg to PSE10. Perhaps the full version of Photoshop is better geared towards RAW than PSE10 or PSE12? Since I've never used the full version of Photoshop, you will get better answers about their differences from other members.

And Horoscope Fish's comment about using both for $10 per month is another option for you to consider. Does your head hurt yet with all these options to consider? ;)
 
J

jwstl

Senior Member
I never said it was "hard'. I said : "Lightroom is easy to learn: and "if you decide you need the power of Photoshop by all means check it out".

Frankly, I expect better of the Moderators. Maybe you should stick to moderating instead of posting your opinions. Unless of course you decide to actually read the posts before commenting on them.
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
jwstl said:
I never said it was "hard'. I said : "Lightroom is easy to learn: and "if you decide you need the power of Photoshop by all means check it out".

Frankly, I expect better of the Moderators. Maybe you should stick to moderating instead of posting your opinions. Unless of course you decide to actually read the posts before commenting on them.
Click to expand...
If you have issues with my Moderation, or me posting my opinion(s), please feel free to discuss it with an Admin.

Thanks!

.....
 
R

RON_RIP

Senior Member
Somebody need a Snickers. Maybe several somebodies. That being said I have an enormous amount of respect for anyone who has mastered or is willing to try mastering photoshop. It is an awesome thing. But I for one do not need it or Lightroom. But that is because I stick to the simple edits that I can achieve in Aperture and am happy that at my advanced age I do not have to master such complicated programs. But I surely admire all of you that do.
 
Watoh

Watoh

Senior Member
I've been using Photoshop for 10 years and I still don't know how to correctly use all its features, I've been using Lightroom for a year or so and feel I know it inside out!
To use some basic PS features is easy, to master it fully is another matter. But to enhance a photo you don't need to, if you want to make art that is another matter.
LR has the main photography tools from PS and nothing more, if it had masks I'd be happy.

They are both great. Lightroom has a great library system as it's advance, Photoshop has a greater range of processing and rendering features.

Get them both! :p

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
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