Nikon SB-400

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WayneF

Senior Member
wud said:
Okay tried out some different settings and it looks like the flash wash away some details if its to bright (even though I pointed it up and also to the sides).
Do you often use flash exposure compensation?

How come in program mode, shutter max is 1/60? I used manual too, just wanted to see what the camera went for.
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Yes, we always watch results regarding consideration of flash compensation. Yes, reflective metering varies with subject, and a bit of flash compensation is sometimes necessary, but not necessarily always. TTL BL flashes probably need +1EV much of the time indoors. TTL mode fill flashes always need about -1.7EV in bright sun. TTL mode indoors, less so, but it definitely depends on the subject you aim at. But Compensation is NOT about a one time calibration of the flash or camera.... it is about whatever subject you aim it at. Just watch, and do what you see you need to do.

The D3 is a bit unique, in that it does not have an internal flash. It of course works with external flashes, and even includes the FV Lock option (normally omitted from lesser cameras without Commander). But a search of the D3 manual appears that it does not have a Flash Compensation control. Normally, it is the same button as Flash Mode (sync mode), same button, just the other wheel.

But there are still choices. The flash unit itself has flash compensation, which does the same thing. Called Flash Output Level Compensation in the SB-900 manual, D-37 English version. It adds +EV or -EV of TTL flash exposure, affecting the metered value.

And also camera Exposure Compensation does this indoors. Exposure Compensation affects both ambient and flash, together, but indoors with only insignificant ambient, it mostly just affects flash. But it does affect ambient, i.e., it does change the P mode shutter/aperture values to be other values. However in camera M mode, Exposure Compensation will not change shutter/aperture values (affects the meter you see, but M mode sets the controls manually), but it will affect TTL flash, so in that sense, it is Flash Compensation. If both Flash compensation on the flash, and Exposure Compensation in camera, are both on (non-zero values), they will add at the flash.

The 1/60 second is Minimum Shutter Speed with Flash, see menu E2. Default is 1/60. To explain, if you turn the flash off, an exposure indoors might be maybe 1/2 second f/5. (where you need flash). Reach up and turn the flash on, and shutter changes to 1/60 minimum. Because, you are using flash, and you do not need it slower. This may appear to be a "max" (then), but is a Minimum, since the light only meters 1/2 second. You have to go out into brighter light for it to meter more. And Slow Sync mode or Rear Sync mode will keep it at the metered 1/2 second. This all applies to camera P and A modes (not to camera M or S modes). In camera M mode, you can set any shutter speed you want (up to Maximum sync speed, 1/250 second). The shutter speed affects continuous ambient light, does not affect the flash.

And (a very different subject, not recommended indoors, nor for normal work, and I should not even mention it), menu E1 and Auto FP will allow "flash" at any faster shutter speed like 1/8000 second (but camera P mode will try its hardest to ignore Auto FP, you have to get to maximum aperture like f/22 for it to trigger on). This is an extremely different mode (not speedlight flash) and you have to be outdoors in sunlight to be able to meter faster shutter speeds.

You may want the shutter faster than minimum 1/60 however, to keep out more of the orange incandescent room light. Setting it near maximum sync speed (1/250 second) is the common thing to do for studio work (where all is controlled). Snapshots might sometimes like a bit of the orange warming however. Camera M mode will allow that, any syncable shutter speed. The flash is not affected by shutter speed, it is much faster than the shutter, so it never cares about shutter. But longer shutter speed allows in more of the ambient light, which indoors, may be orange incandescent. Same thing with high ISO, with flash indoors, you probably get a lot of orange incandescent.
 
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wud

wud

Senior Member
Aaaaah! I thought the flash somehow required 1/60-1/250, I dont know, must have misunderstood what it says in the manual. Just tried at 1/1250 and it gave a much better result (imo). More black in the shadows. Pretty clean image and not a lot of orange (which I almost never prefer, like my images on the cold side most of the time).

Working with dogs, 1/60 isn't enough most of the time. So Im glad I can go up.


What is this you write with shutter 1/8000 used for? Action..?

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W

WayneF

Senior Member
wud said:
Aaaaah! I thought the flash somehow required 1/60-1/250, I dont know, must have misunderstood what it says in the manual. Just tried at 1/1250 and it gave a much better result (imo). More black in the shadows. Pretty clean image and not a lot of orange (which I almost never prefer, like my images on the cold side most of the time).

Working with dogs, 1/60 isn't enough most of the time. So Im glad I can go up.


What is this you write with shutter 1/8000 used for? Action..?

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Oops! An unintended result. :) I knew I shouldn't have mentioned it. :)

The flash could not care less what shutter speed it was. The flash is a very fast pulse of light (called a speedlight). The flash, in the specification chart in rear of manual, shows the flash durations. For example, SB-900, page F-15, 1/10,000 second duration at 1/16 power.

This is faster than any shutter. It is the shutter that cannot 'sync" flash faster than maximum sync speed, which is 1/250 second for your D3 shutter. But the flash can be duration 1/10,000 (or 1/30,000 second) in a dim room with say, a 2 second shutter speed. If the flash duration is only illuminating the subject for such a short time (subject is dark otherwise), that is the same thing a 1/10,000 second shutter would have done.

The speedlight name is because it can capture extremely fast action (of the speeding bullet variety), called High Speed Flash Photography. It does this up close at low flash power levels (the duration chart), faster than any possible shutter speed (speaking of regular flash mode, shutter speed not exceeding maximum sync speed). But this needs to done in dim ambient, so that the brighter ambient will not provide enough light for the ambient to blur what the fast flash already stopped.

For dogs or sports outdoors in sun, we can underexpose the ambient at least two stops to make it be dim (but this is at the cost of the distant background in the picture).

That is speaking of regular speedlight flash mode, shutter speeds not exceeding maximum sync.

Auto FP is something entirely different.. No longer a speedlight. The "flash" becomes continuous light, same as the sun is continuous (FP flash is on from before shutter opens, until after shutter closes, no different than continuous). This does allow any fast shutter speed, since it is not flash, and continuous light has no sync requirement. It is called HSS (High Speed Sync), but it is anything but fast flash... It cannot stop motion, it simply has no sync limitation. Its motion stopping ability depends only on the shutter speed now, which is something less than speedlight duration could have been.

This FP mode has a cost. Due to its heroic efforts to remain illuminated continuously, we only have about 20% of the flash power remaining. This can work at close distances, a little less than half of normal flash range. Maybe as fill flash up to about 3 meters, maybe, in a good case. But it falls off fast after that distance. Serious users can combine 2 or 4 FP flashes, ganged to act as one, but providing 2 or 4 times more power (which is 1 or 2 stops more).


The SB-400 cannot do any of this FP business.

And one major property of FP flash (other than the limited power range) is that once we establish a proper exposure with it (FP flash is affected by BOTH shutter speed and aperture, just like sun light), but once we have a proper exposure, then ANY Equivalent Exposure also works. Same as it works for sunlight. So this is what allows combinations like f/1.8 at 1/8000 second, or f/9 at 1/320 second. Any Equivalent Exposure works, for both FP flash and ambient.

Regular flash mode does not work that way. :)
 
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wud

wud

Senior Member
Woow! 1: damn you know a lot about flash! 2: FB mode sounds so very interesting.
Thank you very much for all your words and also for the links, will go through them later tonight :)

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C

crycocyon

Senior Member
I'm not sure, but does the D3 shoot high speed sync in manual? On the D800 you can set it to manual and then just change the shutter speed to whatever you want.

Yes the way the camera meters TTL a lot of the time the images will be kind of bright. I routinely shoot with around -2 and 2/3 on the flash set to TTL and on my camera usually around -0.3-0.7 exp. Makes a big difference (that's what I use in my model shots).
 
wud

wud

Senior Member
Do you mean, if the flash works when Im in manual? If so, yes, it does :) I just got confused, as manual (and camera menu) said 1/250 as a max.


Used the flash for some of the family pictures I did yesterday, and only 1 got over exposed, to think I am starting to understand the basic :) The other test shot were of my dogs with white fur, guess thats a bit harder as the fur really fast loose texture, if over exposed.

I just used a higher shutter speed, this really works well. But might have to lower the flash compensation a bit too today, depends on the weather.

Finally the day have arrived, doing several dog portraits today, crossed fingers :)
 
W

WayneF

Senior Member
wud said:
Used the flash for some of the family pictures I did yesterday, and only 1 got over exposed, to think I am starting to understand the basic :) The other test shot were of my dogs with white fur, guess thats a bit harder as the fur really fast loose texture, if over exposed.

I just used a higher shutter speed, this really works well. But might have to lower the flash compensation a bit too today, depends on the weather.
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Not sure of your compensation issues, but there are details, and we do have to watch and help as appears necessary. White dogs for example (any white scene) tends to meter dark, and a bit +EV compensation is often necessary (flash or no flash). White reflects a lot of light, and the reflective meter wants to make all things average out middle tone, and therefore white is made to come out as gray, unless compensated. Black comes out as gray, unless compensated. However, a few ifs and buts...

I assume dog scenes are outdoors, in sunlight. Proper sun ambient exposure and proper flash exposure is two proper exposures, and when added, is 2x normal exposure at the subject, which is overexposed one stop. We simply learn to expect that. So with TTL flash mode, we simply just know to use -1.7 Flash Compensation then (in bright sun). Or this is what TTL BL flash mode is for, it tries to do this automatically for us (balanced, reduced flash, more point&shoot), so that 0 EV flash compensation is not far wrong, fill flash in bright sun, for TTL BL.

Direct flash suffers from inverse square law falloff, and generally tends to overexpose (since the indoor backgrounds are therefore dark, and metering tries to make all dark things be lighter middle gray).

Whereas, bounce (in a regular size room) remains more even lighting, everything is more equal distance from the ceiling, so less noticeable falloff, and is often less problem (plus, just generally superior lighting, NOT flat light like direct flash).
 
M

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
wud said:
Okay, got an image from a room where flash is really needed, but I am not satisfied. If any of you who really know how to use a flash would look at it, it would be really appreciated.

http://nikonites.com/project-365-daily-photos/12704-hello-camera-my-daily-photos-36.html#post197784
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That's something easily corrected for in post processing. Personally I wouldn't sweat getting the shot perfect in-camera because it's something easily corrected for in post processing. Not that you shouldn't try to get the best shot possible to begin with but with a RAW image this would be a cakewalk to correct for. At least you're not battling those horrible flash shadows! GAH!!
 
wud

wud

Senior Member
Horoscope Fish said:
That's something easily corrected for in post processing. Personally I wouldn't sweat getting the shot perfect in-camera because it's something easily corrected for in post processing. Not that you shouldn't try to get the best shot possible to begin with but with a RAW image this would be a cakewalk to correct for. At least you're not battling those horrible flash shadows! GAH!!
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The image being to dark, you mean?

I am so scared of the glare on peoples skin..... But I did get the flash shadows last weekend, in a room where light also were shining bright from one side. Dammit, lol. Thinking my shutter were to low, and that I should have pointed the flash in the other direction.
 
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