Need advice on purchasing a second flash

[Revet]

I am starting flash photography and want to start experimenting and learning off-camera flash photography. I currently have a Nikon D3100 camera (not a commander) and an SB-700 Speedlight.
I have been looking at the SB-600 and SB-800 flashes to add as my second. I have read up on them and understand the differences but since I do not have experience in flash photography, I do not know if I need the bell's and whistles of the 800. Here are some of my thoughts and questions;

1) I can fire the 800 with my pop-up on the 3100 in SU-4 mode. That would give me 3 flashes to use; the 700 and 800 off the camera, and the pop-up to provide some direct fill if needed. Is there any value to using the pop-up in photographing portraits, or something you are shooting within it's range?? Or am I just better off getting a radio transmitter to fire the two off-camera flashes and forget about the pop-up? I guess another way to phrase the question is; can I use the pop-up (to fire the other two) as a fill by turning the flash compensation down to a level that it still fires the other flashes but doesn't overpower the shot (again in SU-4 mode)?

2) If I go with the radio transmitter, do they have TTL capability with the 600, 700 and 800? How about CLS capability? I know there will be times when I use flashes in manual but I do want to be able to use TTL when I'm pressed for time or just being lazy. Do I need the Nikon-CLS also (from you people out there that have experience using it).

3) The 800 has the added power over the 600 (and 700). Is that a huge bonus or is the 600 enough (with a 700 added if needed) for most shots??

​Thanks for any thoughts and advice on my thought processes going on here.

 

[Marcel]

I personally would get another 700 just for the sake of having the same menu to deal with. I know from having the SB600 and 700 that I much prefer the SB700 menu from the other that I almost never use since I've had the 700. I'm not sure if the power difference would make it that much better, but you've got to make your own decisions at some point. Happy shooting with your Nikon.

 

[Revet]

That makes sense. The menus on the 800 and 600 are quite a bit different (I think much harder to learn). I was hoping to purchase a used flash to compliment my 700 so I might have to wait a bit before the 700 is readily available used. That would solve all problems then, it would work in TTL and SU-4 mode. I still wonder though, is the pop-up flash ever useful if I have two off camera remotes (forgive me for not having the experience with off-camera flash or the equipment yet to answer this question on my own)? Also, since my D3100 is not a commander, if I use two off camera flashes, I would have to use SU-4 mode unless I purchase a radio trigger. Can I dial it down enough (by decreasing the flash compensation) so that it doesn't influence the exposure but still triggers the remotes?? Or as stated above, having it dialed down a little to maybe light the face end eyes a little, using it as a third flash with the two remotes. Hope that makes sense.

 

[gqtuazon]

​Thanks for any thoughts and advice on my thought processes going on here.

Since your intention is to start a studio type set up, why don't you just get strobes? They are not that expensive and can provide better light output. Alien bees are pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[Revet]

Well, to start I want to see what I can do with speedlights and some diffusers. So far I am pretty much an outdoor photographer (hobbyist) and I do use the speedlight as a fill. Not even sure if portrait or still life indoor photography will even float my boat (I'm just starting to play with it with the one flash but so far I really enjoy it).

 

[WayneF]

I am starting flash photography and want to start experimenting and learning off-camera flash photography. I currently have a Nikon D3100 camera (not a commander) and an SB-700 Speedlight.
I have been looking at the SB-600 and SB-800 flashes to add as my second. I have read up on them and understand the differences but since I do not have experience in flash photography, I do not know if I need the bell's and whistles of the 800. Here are some of my thoughts and questions;

1) I can fire the 800 with my pop-up on the 3100 in SU-4 mode. That would give me 3 flashes to use; the 700 and 800 off the camera, and the pop-up to provide some direct fill if needed. Is there any value to using the pop-up in photographing portraits, or something you are shooting within it's range?? Or am I just better off getting a radio transmitter to fire the two off-camera flashes and forget about the pop-up? I guess another way to phrase the question is; can I use the pop-up (to fire the other two) as a fill by turning the flash compensation down to a level that it still fires the other flashes but doesn't overpower the shot (again in SU-4 mode)?

Yes, you should be able to use the popup flash at its Minimum manual power to trigger the Nikon SU-4 mode flashes.
SB-700 and SB-800 has the SU-4 mode optical slave trigger, but the SB-600 does not. An inexpensive accessory can be added to the foot of the SB-600 to add it, but the SB-600 is special - it has lower sync voltage than many flashes, and this is what powers the slave, and some don't work, others do. See Optical slave triggers for speedlights regarding this.

Fill flash is most desirably placed near camera lens axis. On axis lighting is by definition even (flat). It makes shadows behind the subject, but ON THE SUBJECT, this evenness is near shadowless. However fill normally uses an umbrella anyway, but there are worse things than direct fill. Outside in bright sun with hot shoe flash would be an obvious exception.

2) If I go with the radio transmitter, do they have TTL capability with the 600, 700 and 800? How about CLS capability? I know there will be times when I use flashes in manual but I do want to be able to use TTL when I'm pressed for time or just being lazy. Do I need the Nikon-CLS also (from you people out there that have experience using it).

Only a tiny very few high end radio triggers can offer TTL. Most are manual flash only. Optical slaves are manual flash only also.

3) The 800 has the added power over the 600 (and 700). Is that a huge bonus or is the 600 enough (with a 700 added if needed) for most shots??

It varies with zoom, but at 24mm (in an umbrella), the SB-800 is maybe 0.4 stop more power than a SB-600. SB-700 is maybe 0.8 stop less than SB-800 (24mm FX).

 

[Revet]

Thanks, that answers all my questions. I think what will work for me is get a 2nd SB-700 or an 800 so I can use them in manual mode (SU-4) and then at some point when my wife will let me, upgrade to a camera like the D90 which can act as a commander so I can use TTL if i want it quick and easy.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks, that answers all my questions. I think what will work for me is get a 2nd SB-700 or an 800 so I can use them in manual mode (SU-4) and then at some point when my wife will let me, upgrade to a camera like the D90 which can act as a commander so I can use TTL if i want it quick and easy.

The SB-800 or SB-700 can be the commander on present camera, when on the hot shoe (or connected to it with SC-28 extension cord, which could also be the fill flash).

However, camera models without the commander also do not have FV Lock, which will be essentially necessary for portraits of people (due to commander flashing causing pictures of subject blinking). This will not matter for TTL pictures of inanimate things that do not blink.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks, that answers all my questions. I think what will work for me is get a 2nd SB-700 or an 800 so I can use them in manual mode (SU-4) and then at some point when my wife will let me, upgrade to a camera like the D90 which can act as a commander so I can use TTL if i want it quick and easy.

The SB-800 or SB-700 can be the commander on present camera, when on the hot shoe (or connected to it with SC-28 extension cord), which could also be the fill flash.

However, camera models without the commander also do not have FV Lock, which will be essentially necessary for TTL portraits of people (due to commander flashing causing pictures of subject blinking). This will not matter for TTL pictures of inanimate things that do not blink.

 

[ShootRaw]

Why are you needing a second flash at this point? Have you mastered the one flash you have now? There are ways to use reflectors and mirrors to act as a second light source..Have you tried using your one flash yet with a umbrella, softbox etc? I say put your money into a trigger and receiver and modifier at this point..Another SB-700 would be my next purchase once I master the one I have now..I recently bought the new Wescott 26inch rapid box for my 700..I have Pocket wizard flex trigger and receiver that I am extremely happy with..I do not dig using the pop up flash as part of the equation..Good Luck

 

[Revet]

Yes, ShootRaw, I see the wisdom behind your statement. I am learning now all I can about using a single flash on and off the camera. I have a long way to go. I know the book stuff in and out and I'm sure I could ace a written test but put the thing in front of me at photo op time and I am dumb as a door knob. Practice, Practice, Practice!!!

I think the reason I wanted that second flash is because I was supposed to due a large group photo for a family event so I learned how to trigger 3 other off camera flashes with my SB-700 on the camera. I was all set to go and luckily my sister grabbed a Pro at the last moment. I never got the chance to put what I had learned into action so I really want to try to trigger some other flashes using mine as commander. It was like being all pumped up for the big game and then at the last moment the game was cancelled. It took me a few days to realize that was not a good enough reason to buy a second flash when I still have to learn the first one.