Fong's Lightsphere vs SpinLight 360

[gohan2091]

If I want to buy the spinlight I would have by now without replying on here. You are questioning my idea and I am listening, however, I don't think I agree. Talking of Neil van Neikerk...I heard he uses the spinlight himself. He endorses it and earns a bit of money for its sale. He also came up with the black formie thing. The spinlight is a more professional replacement for the black formie thing without the drawbacks and offers other options too. It appears to be several existing flash accessories in one.

I didn't say I don't want indirect light to hit the subject, you didn't read my sentence correctly. I said what if I want to bounce off the wall and ONLY want indirect light to hit my subject WHILE blocking flash spill? This is the scenario that caused Neil to come up with the black formie thing.

I will check the photographers you mentioned, thanks. And just to clarify, you are saying flash is not needed outdoors when the subject is back lit? The subject would be in shadow if there is no shade, but you are saying this is wrong? I've watched all kinds of YouTube videos from professional photographers and photography companies like Adorama.

 

[pistnbroke]

All this emphasis on equipment is not what wedding photography is all about...the equipment is secondary..F8 for sufficient depth of field ( unless you are doing Bokeh) 1/30 is minimum speed and iso 100-6400 ..what you forget is that these last two will float to give the right exposue around F8 .
Wedding photography is about "control " and interaction with the Band G not faffing with equipment ..never touch mine other than flash on/off U1 Bokeh U2 outside and A (aperture ) in the church ...the wife always uses P because her eyesight means she cannot see the camera controls !!! does great photos because the viewfinder matches her eyesight..!!!( and I got the parameters set right in P mode)

 

[Robert Mitchell]

The black foam thing and a bounce card are both items that you can DIY, as many people do. No other device needed. Many people use this method. It's not new or innovative on Neil's part and the Spinlight 360 is simply taking the concept and working it into a manufactured device that has an unreasonable retail price. There are other devices that do similar things that cost far less and do a similar job if you don't want to DIY something.

Did you see that Neil has this article?
http://neilvn.com/tangents/throw-away-the-tupperware/

I realize that Neil endorses the Spinlight 360 but it's not doing anything for him that he can't do with a white card and/or black foam. He says he 'feels comfortable' endorsing the product. Sure. it's close to what he does on his own but in the case of the Spinlight 360 and some other devices, he is given these products to test and use and if they do the job, he'll give it the thumbs up.

On the other hand, if you ever see him work or take one of his workshops you'll find that in practice he doesn't use them. So you can take that for what it's worth. There are many people like Neil that do the same type of thing and feel comfortable endorsing a product but don't really use it when they work and are making money. I've seen tons of videos and read articles and his books and he does not endorse those products there.

Thank you for clarifying. I did misread, and yes, in those situations, a piece of black foam for $2 at Michael's and a rubber band or some velcro gets the job done beautifully.

I'm not saying that devices like the Spinlight 360 don't work. All I'm saying is that it's not necessary to do the job you want to do, and you can accomplish the same thing for almost nothing. If you're Neil, then you're given the device to test.

I test gear for a few manufacturers and I know how those 'arrangements' work. I've endorsed products that I think work well but I don't use them in my work. It's very common.

Strong backlighting doesn't always put your subjects in shade or darkness but when it does, then sure, fill flash comes in handy, assuming that your flash has enough power to compete or exceed the Sun's brightness. When shooting in bright Sun you fire your flash straight ahead with no modifier.

 

[pistnbroke]

I think what this first time wedding guy needs to do it turn of Nikonites and get his head around what he is going to do ...Prior Prepartion Prevents Piss Poor Photographs thats the 7 P's of photography...

 

[gohan2091]

The problem with the black foamie thing is, if you want to rotate the flash head, you have to take the foam off, reposition it and then attach it back on. The spinlight allows you to do this all within seconds. It acts as a better bounce card too and has other features. I know it's overpriced though.

Outdoors, I will use the bare flash head pointed directly at the subjects for fill flash. Indoors in the registry office, bouncing flash off the yellow walls behind me, I use a bare flash head. Neil VN sometimes uses the omni bounce. Would you recommend I use the omni bounce in the indoor situation or just the bare flash head? Is the Omni bounce useless? I do have one in my bag, it came with my SB700.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Hi gohan2091,

If you're shooting indoors and have reflective surface for bouncing light then the omni bounce isn't needed. If you adjust the zoom setting on the flash head to give you wide coverage (24mm, 35mm or 50mm) then that will take care of diffusing the light. Having the omni bounce on the flash just cuts back on the light. By pointing the light behind or off to one side you're creating a directional light source. Adding a diffuser won't make that light any better or softer.

 

[gohan2091]

how can a flash make the shadows in the face lighter without making the lit parts brighter as well.....its bullshit...

This was taken from the comment section of Neil's blog:

if you’re already exposing correctly for the ambient light in the scenario you describe, then you will over-expose if you add flash as if the flash is the main source of light. However, if you more realistically just use flash as fill light in that instance, then the flash will just lift shadow detail and help the contrast, and not add significantly to the overall exposure. Neil vN

Hi gohan2091,

If you're shooting indoors and have reflective surface for bouncing light then the omni bounce isn't needed. If you adjust the zoom setting on the flash head to give you wide coverage (24mm, 35mm or 50mm) then that will take care of diffusing the light. Having the omni bounce on the flash just cuts back on the light. By pointing the light behind or off to one side you're creating a directional light source. Adding a diffuser won't make that light any better or softer.

Ok thank you. So when would you use the omni bounce? I was playing around with my flash head last night and I could go to 11mm. This is even wider than the figures you mentioned, so is wider, better indoors? I haven't seen the registry room, but I know it has yellow mongolia walls. I wouldn't imagine there would be much reflective surfaces in this room. I guess I will just have to go there and guess the settings until I get something right. I shouldn't take so long. I would use TTL with flash compensation if the bounce light isn't powerful enough. Cranking up the ISO to 400 should be sufficient. Unfortunately, I only have a D5100 so I can't use ISO's like 3200 or 6400 with good effect. I'm also unsure what lens to use, I think my 50mm 1.8G would do, although I have a Tamron 70-300 but this ranges from 3.5 to 5.6 and I think I would be too close in this small room. Perhaps I would use the Tamron outside where I can step back a bit. The long focal length should throw the background out of focus a good amount I think and of course being outside, there is more light so shutter speeds should be good.

 

[pistnbroke]

I have never found any advantage in using any sort of diffuer or bounce other than it absorbs power ...waiting for the zoom on the flash to move is a waste of time just set it at the 18mm end and disable the flash zoom ,,,or you will end up with multiple exposures from the camera that the flash cannot keep up with,,,,,,

old peope know what they are talking about ..they have been there and done it
young peope like to re invent the wheel

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Ok thank you. So when would you use the omni bounce? I was playing around with my flash head last night and I could go to 11mm. This is even wider than the figures you mentioned, so is wider, better indoors? I haven't seen the registry room, but I know it has yellow mongolia walls. I wouldn't imagine there would be much reflective surfaces in this room. I guess I will just have to go there and guess the settings until I get something right. I shouldn't take so long. I would use TTL with flash compensation if the bounce light isn't powerful enough. Cranking up the ISO to 400 should be sufficient. Unfortunately, I only have a D5100 so I can't use ISO's like 3200 or 6400 with good effect. I'm also unsure what lens to use, I think my 50mm 1.8G would do, although I have a Tamron 70-300 but this ranges from 3.5 to 5.6 and I think I would be too close in this small room. Perhaps I would use the Tamron outside where I can step back a bit. The long focal length should throw the background out of focus a good amount I think and of course being outside, there is more light so shutter speeds should be good.

Personally, I wouldn't use the omni bounce. I've never found a reason to use one and it's no different from the other devices that pour light out in all directions. As a directional main light source it's not needed and for fill I don't find it useful.

I've also found that if you're bouncing off of a reflective surface, there's no reason to use the ultra wide or wide zoom setting on the flash head. The 24mm setting does the job and at times I will zoom further to 35mm or 50mm to concentrate the light. Spreading the light out will once again waste a lot of light and power and serves no purpose. Once you're firing the flash at a large wall, that wall becomes a light source, but you don't need the entire wall to become the light source. All you need is a reasonably sized area for a directional main light source and that area is huge compared to the size of the rectangular flash head on your Speedlight.

I generally shoot in manual mode but TTL will work just as well. You will have to ride the flash exposure compensation depending on the size of the bounce surface, your distance from that surface, and the distance that the subject is from you.

Once you're in a room or hall you can usually do a few quick tests to get a feel for the amount of compensation. If you're indoors then you can let the shutter speed stay at maximum sync speed since you probably won't need or want to adjust the ambient contribution to the shot. When outdoors, as you lose light towards sundown or under a cloud cover, you may want to slow down the shutter to bring more ambient into the shot.

 

[gohan2091]

What controls ambient light in TTL flash? You say the shutter speed but I heard only in manual flash does shutter control ambient. In TTL, it's aperture?

 

[pistnbroke]

this OP is off to shoot his first wedding so firing off a few test shots whilst the registrar gets agitated and 50 guest wonder what you are up to is not the way to go. If you must bounce and are able to do it without firing into one of the guests faces then iTTL is the go ...most of the registry offices are tight for space and you could be surrounded by 20 phone cameras.
Why would you want to bounce from a wall anyway natural light comes from above ......

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Bouncing from a wall is an incredibly common practice. When you fire into a large wall you're creating directionality, both from the side and from above. Every great wedding photographer uses that method so I'm not sure why it seems foreign or incorrect to you. You want to create a light source that replicates portrait lighting, where a softbox or diffused light source is positioned to one side of camera position and just above. That's exactly what happens when you fire into a wall and exactly the reason why you don't want the light to bounce from the ceiling only. Having light coming from directly above will cast a downward shadow that is not desirable, nor is it pleasing, and it does not look like great portrait lighting.

Obviously, when using bounce flash, you place the light source and adjust as needed. It's no different from any other use of flash. There are times where you can bounce to the side or behind you and other times where you may not be able to do so. Part of being a great even photographer is the ability to think on your feet and problem solve on the fly.

 

[pistnbroke]

gohan...the more I read of your question the more I think you need to keep it simple so you can forget about the equipmet .you are trying to run before you can walk and it truth you dont need to run ....have you not noticed that when you put the flash on the camera it goes straight to 1/60 ..??? just keep the flash over the lens on iTTL ..now just shut this site down till after the wedding and concentrate on your shoot list . you must ensure you dont do any Prince Charles shots /Tesco bags/ parcels and cards and no gaps

 

[Robert Mitchell]

What controls ambient light in TTL flash? You say the shutter speed but I heard only in manual flash does shutter control ambient. In TTL, it's aperture?

Hey gohan2091,

I didn't actually say that you would adjust your shutter speed to control ambient contribution when in TTL. My last paragraph is simply describing what you would do but not what modes to use. When I know I want to control the ambient/flash exposure balance I'm in full manual mode, both on camera and flash. Sometimes it's the only way to really control your exposure and in those instances you don't want the camera or flash to do the thinking for you.

 

[pistnbroke]

You have one of the UKs most successfull wedding photographers telling you what to do and a studio based fashion/portrait photographer telling you what to do ..your life your choice ..

 

[gohan2091]

I appreciate all advice whether I agree or not, it's all valuable to me. I understand there are some people who like to use natural light only while others want to balance it with flash and some want to use flash and use ambient as a slight fill. There are no right or wrong ways, it's down to preference.

I am not shooting a large wedding, it's a couple and 2 friends.. That's it. Some shots will be indoors while others are outdoors. The bride isn't even wearing a wedding dress, just something smart.

Indoors I will take a test shot of the room without the couple, to get a slightly underexposed background. I'll ask the couple to sit down, and use a bare flash head and angle it up towards the ceiling and walls behind me with TTL. I understand that aiming straight up would result in racoon eyes and harsher shadows. I will then look at the LCD and histogram and adjust using FEC. Sounds good? I'm unsure what lens to use though.

Outdoors I will take a test shot of the background, point bare flash head towards couple on TTL and take another test shot. I want the ambient light to be the primary light and will use a negative FEC for fill flash. Again, not sure what lens I will use.

Both of these places I will be using Manual mode. I am comfortable in manual mode. I'm going to do some practice shooting on a doll and I will compare manual flash with TTL. If I'm using a zoom lens, I don't want to keep adjusting manual flash when my aperture changes (when I zoom) that's why I think TTL would be best.

 

[nikonjim]

Hi Gohan,
I saw a professional photographer friend of mine with the Gary Fong gizmo, and decided to do a bit of research on it, considering the price!!!
I found a much cheaper, and just as effective Chinese copy advertised in one of my magazines, so I sent for it, and it performs every bit as well as Gary Fong's, but at half the price!!

 

[pistnbroke]

well small weddings are more difficult than large..the last one with only 6 was very interesting ..the bride was very tall and had a short white dress ..it was slighty windy and she had no knickers...a very interesting site was seen by all and more than once......( 25% of brides wear no knickers as in a tight size 8 dress the line shows)

good luck with your wedding I shall be in chester with a 60 year old bride ..bet she has got knickers !!!!!

 

[Robert Mitchell]

You have one of the UKs most successfull wedding photographers telling you what to do and a studio based fashion/portrait photographer telling you what to do ..your life your choice ..

Interesting take on things. You unsubscribe in a huff and then come back to discredit me when you really know nothing about me or my experience.

 

[pistnbroke]

I read your website if its giving the wrong impression thats not my fault ...I still think the guy is going the wrong way but that will be his problem not mine...