Flash use in P Mode

[JJM]

Hello,
I am trying to use the P Mode as I read that A Mode is not much use. However even in broad daylight I keep getting the flash symbol flashing which I take to mean it is too dark and I need to adjust to Shutter/aperture. I realise these two work in tandem but don't know how to change the setting. My only recourse so far has been to revert to A Mode when I have taken a reasonable photo. Any help would be gratefully received.
JJM

 

[WayneF]

Hello,
I am trying to use the P Mode as I read that A Mode is not much use. However even in broad daylight I keep getting the flash symbol flashing which I take to mean it is too dark and I need to adjust to Shutter/aperture. I realise these two work in tandem but don't know how to change the setting. My only recourse so far has been to revert to A Mode when I have taken a reasonable photo. Any help would be gratefully received.
JJM

Camera mode A or M is preferred for flash indoors, but mode P is helpful for flash in daylight. There is no problem with mode P in this case (it may be best). Daylight is a worst case, in that the flash power has to compete with the sunlight. Obviously aperture in sunlight has to be in the ballpark of Sunny 16, and competing with sunlight requires lots of illumination, and f/16 or f/11 requires lots of power. The little popup internal flash does not have lots of power.

The flashing flash symbol is telling you that the flash does not have enough power for the subject distance you are trying to reach. It doesn't mean "too dark" exactly. Yes, it will be too dark, but specifically, it is saying the flash unit does not have enough power to deliver to the subject at that distance in this case. The flash power simply is unable to illuminate the subject at that distance. Not much you can do then. Opening aperture helps flash power, but bright sunlight and shutter sync speed are limits. Increasing ISO helps flash power, but bright sunlight and shutter sync speed are limits. Camera P mode knows all about what can be done, but what it needs is a bigger flash. What you can do is to reduce your subject distance (stand closer) and it will help. Possibly much closer.

Camera A or M mode is how your change the shutter/aperture settings. Camera P mode will set both settings the way it thinks is correct, and it does it well. However, camera mode cannot make your flash have more power than it does have.

So which flash is it? The camera internal popup flash? It has very low power, and very limited range. And about what subject distance is it? Stand closer, possibly much closer. If the internal flash, then try maybe two feet (one time, of something like a bush in sun, not human eyes that close), which is way too close for a good picture of people, but the internal flash might work there (in bright sun), and you will get the idea about the power capability.

If an external hot shoe flash, it has much more power, and you have hopes of maybe ten feet subject distance working fine for fill flash in bright daylight. But flash in bright sun needs a big flash.

You possibly may be interested in Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Flash pictures are Double Exposures

 

[JJM]

Many thanks WayneF,
I am new to this camera and previously just had to point and shoot. Most of my photos are of travel scenes, churches and listed buildings etc. I thought in broad daylight with the sun shining I do not need a flash at all? I do not have an external hot shoe flash attached in this instance. Maybe I better try learning to use M mode? Thanks for your comments and I will check out the site you suggest.

 

[nickt]

I'm not sure from your question if you are wanting to use flash or if you prefer not to use flash. Wayne gave you advice for using flash and explained the limitations of the on camera flash. If you meant that you prefer not to use flash, that is a different story. P mode is good for many things unless you need a specific aperture or shutter speed. Your auto mode, as you know, will pop up the flash as needed. Auto might also be set for auto iso. When the light is low, the camera will choose a higher iso for more sensitivity to light and it will also add flash if needed. Higher iso can give you a lesser quality picture. Your P mode will not add flash automatically. And it may not be set for auto iso. It may be locked into a low iso (requires more light, but gives better quality image) and that's why you are getting the warning for flash. As Wayne said, the on camera flash may not be strong enough for some scenes especially outdoors.
So, in P mode you don't need to worry about shutter or aperture other than hoping shutter speed is fast enough for hand holding. But if you want to take the shot without flash, you will need to crank up your iso to a point where you don't need flash AND the shutter speed automatically chosen is high enough. Or you could set iso to auto, but then you are making P mode more like auto mode. I would keep P mode with manual iso.

 

[WayneF]

Many thanks WayneF,
I am new to this camera and previously just had to point and shoot. Most of my photos are of travel scenes, churches and listed buildings etc. I thought in broad daylight with the sun shining I do not need a flash at all? I do not have an external hot shoe flash attached in this instance. Maybe I better try learning to use M mode? Thanks for your comments and I will check out the site you suggest.

Bright sun of course normally needs no flash for very many pictures, such as landscapes. The flash has so little distance range anyway, it cannot work for landscapes (except maybe near foreground objects). But specifically, pictures of people in bright sun have harsh unpleasing shadows on their face (from the sun), and the the flash can add a lot to fill those shadows (still some shadow left to look natural, but reduced, softened, much better... see the link page I mentioned). The little popup flash might be sufficient to add that fill up to say maybe five feet from the flash, maybe (in this bright sun condition). But that is real close, pictures of people have better perspective if slightly farther, 6 or 8 feet from the camera (perspective, causing near noses to appear larger, etc). A hot shoe speedlight would be necessary then (greater power capability, but still far from infinite power).

I should not have confused it with camera mode M, but the point of mode M does allow setting any aperture and shutter speed you want. You have to choose those that will work of course. Camera M mode is important to indoor flash, where the ambient is too dim (why we need flash), which is very different than in bright sun where ambient is overwhelming. We can usually ignore the ambient indoors (we are using flash). So yes, often we use camera M mode with flash indoors, usually to set a fast shutter to keep out all traces of ambient, or maybe a slow shutter to intentionally blur or show the weak ambient - but whatever, generally the ambient is too dim indoors to much matter what shutter speed is. The flash exposure is concerned with aperture, and we can choose shutter speed for other reasons (indoors with flash - but NOT in bright sun of course).

Another solution for portraits in bright sun, very good, but maybe more awkward to do, is to have an assistant hold a large white reflector (maybe 3 foot size) fairly near the subject person (just slightly out of camera view), to illuminate those dark harsh shadows that way. Works great, if you are prepared to do it.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

Hello,
I am trying to use the P Mode as I read that A Mode is not much use. However even in broad daylight I keep getting the flash symbol flashing which I take to mean it is too dark and I need to adjust to Shutter/aperture. I realise these two work in tandem but don't know how to change the setting. My only recourse so far has been to revert to A Mode when I have taken a reasonable photo. Any help would be gratefully received.
JJM

P mode works quite well for what you are doing. You need to tell us a little more about what you are trying to do and what aperture and shutter speed and ISO you have it on when you are shooting outdoors in the P mode. This will give us the information we need to help you without having to guess at what you want to do.

 

[JJM]

Thank you all for your help.
All I am trying to do whilst learning how to use the camera is to take architectural photos in broad daylight with a blue sky and the sun shining. It is my belief that these conditions do not need the flash so why does the flash symbol tell me otherwise? The camera, in Mode P, I thought, automatically adjusts shutter speed and aperture so I guess that figure changes with each situation. Taking the same photo in the same conditions standing on the same spot in A Mode works perfect without the flash. I know I have a lot of learning and a lot of reading up to do. In the meantime I have now set the ISO Sensitivity Control to on and will try it in the sun later and report back if I may.
Many thanks.

 

[WayneF]

Wow! I am sorry for my confusion JJM, I had assumed you were intentionally trying to use the flash in that situation. I did not realize you were not. What you describe in bright sun is nothing I have ever seen.

You are speaking of the Flash-Ready indicator, right? The lightning-bolt symbol at the extreme right end of the viewfinder display? Normally, it indicates the TTL flash did not have sufficient power to fullfill the conditions of the last immediate flash shot. I assumed you meant that, but I realize now you did not.

D7000 manual page 219 describes menu D12, which can be set On to flash if it thinks flash is necessary. It does not mention P mode being any different than A mode (and normally Nikon is very careful to specify differences). One really would never expect that in bright sun, unless maybe there were large areas of dark shade.

So, to better understand, what are the exposure conditions when this happens? Look back at the Exif data in your previous images when this happens in P mode and also not in A mode in same situation. What is the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO and camera mode - when this does and does not happen in identical bright sun situations? Since it is so unimaginable, it would be great if you could also post a picture when P mode did this blinking in bright sun (hopefully with Exif data still present).

 

[nickt]

We are guessing without a sample photo with data, but to further guess, I'm still going with the possibility that in P mode JJM is using a lower ISO where as Auto mode is probably set to auto-ISO. I'm going to further guess that maybe he is set to spot metering in P mode. This came up the other day on the forum with someone complaining of randomly poorly exposed shots and it turned out they were using spot metering.
Its hard to envision a warning to use flash in a bright outdoor scene, but the combination of a low ISO and spot metering on a dark area of the scene could do it.

 

[JJM]

OK Many thanks for your patience. I did a test this morning and will try to attach the three photos here. On each of the three shots the lightening bolt symbol in the bottom right corner of the viewfinder was flashing. (I took other shots where it was not flashing in the same area also) In the Custom Settings Menu the Exposure Delay Mode is set to off.
I do try to see and remember the settings as I take a photo but they are only in the viewfinder for seconds and I am sure I would forget them before I had time to write anything down

1) Exposure 1/400 - f/10 - ISO800
2) Exposure 1/400 - f/10 - ISO800
3) Exposure 1/500 - f/11 - ISO800
Thanks very much all for much needed assistance.

 

[WayneF]

OK Many thanks for your patience. I did a test this morning and will try to attach the three photos here. On each of the three shots the lightening bolt symbol in the bottom right corner of the viewfinder was flashing. (I took other shots where it was not flashing in the same area also) In the Custom Settings Menu the Exposure Delay Mode is set to off.
I do try to see and remember the settings as I take a photo but they are only in the viewfinder for seconds and I am sure I would forget them before I had time to write anything down

1) Exposure 1/400 - f/10 - ISO800
2) Exposure 1/400 - f/10 - ISO800
3) Exposure 1/500 - f/11 - ISO800

This is no doubt very frustrating for everyone. There is no reasonable explanation why the Flash-Ready indicator would blink in bright sun when the flash was not being used. There is even less reason why it would do this in P mode but not in A mode. No one will know why this time, we simply need more info about the situation. Aperture would be about the only candidate, but Auto ISO could affect it. As is, we know nothing. Frankly, it is sounding like a camera defect. Certainly it is not normal operation.

An experienced troubleshooter with access to the camera (like a repair shop) would try different things, hoping to chance onto any additional information that might show some possible cause.

Short of that access, it would at least be be good to see the Exif data (the complete data).

The camera records in the image file just about every possible setting that was used. This is called Exif data, and most photo programs show it, or at least some of it. However, when Adobe programs rewrite the file, some of the Nikon data is omitted then. And worse, when Adobe programs save it with the File - Save For Web menu, they omit ALL of the Exif data.

Also, even if present in your image upload, some posting host sites strip away the Exif data. I am not sure about this site, but it certainly does appears to strip it, at least I have never seen an exception here with the Exif data. So sorry, I doubt posting the image here can help. If you could post it on your own web site, the Exif probably would show.

So... it's very difficult to know more than what you can tell us.

You did post guesses about exposure, but frankly, if ISO 800, Sunny 16 says f/11 would be about 1/1600 second shutter in bright sun. That would be the normal expectation. But you said 1/400, and that does not compute. There are some darker areas in your pictures, but the bright areas mostly do not look overexposed.

Also the big key would would see data for BOTH the P mode case when it blinked, and also see the A mode case when it did not, to try to find out what the difference was. There must be some difference. In camera A mode, you set aperture yourself, but we have no clue what it was. Seeing the Exif data can only help to know what the situation was.

Here is one way to see more, if you care to proceed. Tedious to describe, but easy to do.

You could go to this site: PhotoME - Exif, IPTC & ICC Metadata Editor
and download their free Exif viewer Photome. It is one of the more excellent ones, and it is free.

Then you could install it, and use its File - Open menu to open an original image straight from the camera (JPG or RAW, it does not matter, but one that does this problem). However, if you have let Adobe resave it, much Exif stuff will be gone then, only the basics left.

Then you could select its menu File - Export, as Text Output.
Then to the right side, you could select Sections checked to be Image, Camera, Manufacturer note (all three).

You can see it then. We could see it if you continue this way:
Then you click at the bottom: Copy to Clipboard.

Then you can compose a reply here, and position the mouse cursor where you want insert this, and hold CTRL and type V, which will Paste the clipboard text into that message. There is a lot of it (settings from this picture):

Here is an arbitrary sample of the Exif data that you would see then (and we could see then):
But you can see that there is much more you could tell us.

[ PhotoME ]
PhotoME version: 0.8ß2 (Build 891)

[ Overview ]
File name: E:\Camera\20130510\800_4059.NEF
File type: Nikon Camera RAW
File size: 32,903 KB
Creation date: 5/10/2013 15:26
Last modification: 5/10/2013 15:26
Make: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera: NIKON D800
Lens: AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-70mm F2.8G ED
Software: Ver.1.02
Focal length: 38 mm (equiv. 38 mm)
Aperture: F5.6
Exposure time: 1/60"
ISO speed rating: 100/21°
Program: Aperture priority
Metering Mode: Pattern
White Balance: Flash
Focus Mode: AF-S
Image Stabilizer: Off
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode, return light detected

[ Image ]
New subfile type: Reduced-resolution image data
Image width: 160 px
Image height: 120 px
Number of bits per component: 8, 8, 8
Compression scheme: uncompressed
Pixel scheme: RGB
Manufacturer: NIKON CORPORATION
Image input equipment model: NIKON D800
Image data location: 0x0001F7D0
Orientation of image: 0° (top/left)
Number of components: 3
Number of rows per strip: 120 rows
Bytes per compressed strip: 57600 bytes
Image resolution in width direction: 300 dpi
Image resolution in height direction: 300 dpi
Image data arrangement: Chunky Format (Interleaved)
Unit of X and Y resolution: inch
Software: Ver.1.02
File change date and time: 2013-05-10 15:26:19
Person who created the image:
SubIFD Pointer: 0x0002D8D0, 0x0002D948, 0x0002DA2C
Pair of black and white reference values: [0, 255, 0, 255, 0, 255]
Copyright holder:
Exif IFD Pointer: 0x00000668
GPS IFD Pointer: 0x0001F7BC
Date and time of original data generation: 2013-05-10 15:26:19
TIFF/EP Standard ID: 1.0.0.0

[ Camera ]
Exposure time: 1/60"
F number: F5.6
Exposure program: Aperture priority
ISO speed rating: 100/21°
??? (8830): 2
Date and time of original data generation: 2013-05-10 15:26:19
Date and time of digital data generation: 2013-05-10 15:26:19
Exposure bias: ±0 EV
Maximum lens aperture: 3 Av (F2.8)
Metering mode: Pattern
Light source: Flash
Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode, return light detected
Lens focal length: 38 mm
Manufacturer notes: 0x00000888
User comment:
DateTime subseconds: 0.6"
DateTimeOriginal subseconds: 0.6"
DateTimeDigitized subseconds: 0.6"
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
File source: Digital Camera
Scene type: A directly photographed image
CFA pattern: [Red, Green], [Green, Blue]
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Auto exposure
White balance: Manual
Digital zoom ratio: Digital zoom was not used
Focal length in 35 mm film: 38 mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Gain control: None
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Subject distance range: Unknown

[ Manufacturer notes ]
MakerNote Version: Version 2.1.0
ISO: 100/21°
Quality: RAW
White Balance: Flash
Focus Mode: AF-S
Flash Setting: Normal
Flash Type: Optional,TTL-BL
White Balance Fine Tune: ±0, ±0?
Color Balance 1: 2.1875, 1.20703125, 1, 1
Program Shift: ±0 EV
Exposure Difference: -2.17 EV
Preview IFD Pointer: 0x00005A06
Flash Exposure Compensation: ±0 EV
ISO Setting: 100/21°
??? (0017): 1.6.0
Flash Exposure Bracket Value: ±0 EV
Exposure Bracket Value: ±0 EV
Hi-Speed Crop: Off (7424x4924 cropped to 7424x4924 at pixel 0, 0)
??? (001C): 1.6
Serial Number: 3046677
Color Space: sRGB
VR Info Version: 1.0.0
Vibration Reduction: Off
??? (001F): 2 (Off?)
Active D-Lighting: Off
Picture Control Version: 1.0.0
Picture Control Name: STANDARD
Picture Control Base: STANDARD
Picture Control Adjust: Default Settings
Picture Control Quick Adjust: ±0
Sharpness: +3
Contrast: ±0
Brightness: ±0
Saturation: ±0
Hue Adjustment: ±0
Filter Effect: not set
Toning Effect: not set
Toning Saturation: Not set
Time Zone: UTC -6:00 (Chicago, Houston, Mexico City)
Daylight Saving Time: Off
Date Format: Month/day/year
ISO: 100/21°
ISO Expansion: Off
ISO (2): 100/21°
ISO Expansion (2): Off
Vignette Control: Normal
Lens Type: D, G
Lens: 24-70mm F2.8
Flash Mode: Fired, External
Shooting Mode: Single-Frame
Auto Bracket Release: Auto Release
Lens F-Stops: 6
Shot Info Version: 2.2.2
RAW Compression: Lossless
Noise Reduction: Off
Color Balance Version: 2.1.7
Lens Data Version: 2.0.4
Used Lens: AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-70mm F2.8G ED
Exit Pupil Position: 107.8 mm
AF Aperture: F2.9
??? (0098): 9
??? (0098): 3
Focus Position: 0x42
??? (0098): 64
Focus Distance: 2 m
Focal Length: 38.9 mm
Lens ID Number: 147
Lens F-Stops: 6
Min Focal Length: 24.5 mm
Max Focal Length: 71.3 mm
Max Aperture At Min Focal: F2.8
Max Aperture At Max Focal: F2.8
MCU Version: 149
Effective Max Aperture: F2.8
??? (0098): 3
??? (0098): 72
??? (0098): 26
??? (0098): 82
??? (0098): 6
??? (0098): 0
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??? (0098): 0
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??? (0098): 0
??? (0098): F1.1?
RAW Image Center: x = 3712, y = 2462
Retouch History: None
??? (00A3): 0
??? (00A4): 3.0.0
Shutter Count: 4278
Multi Exposure Data Version: 1.0.0
Multi Exposure Mode: Off
Multi Exposure Shots: 0
Multi Exposure Auto Gain: Off
High ISO Noise Reduction: Normal
AF Info Version: 1.0.0
??? (00B7): 0
AF Area Mode: Single-point AF
??? (00B7): 0x0
Auto Focus: On
??? (00B7): 1
File Informations Version: 1.0.0
Directory Number: 100
File Number: 4059
??? (00B9): 0x00FF0000

 

[JJM]

Many thanks WayneF for all your trouble.
I have downloaded PhotoMe and followed your excellent instructions and seems to works as stated so far. As this "problem" still produces what seems to me to be a reasonable photo then I can live with it. I'm sure I will have millions of other questions in the future about other aspects of the camera and my feeble attempts to use it. So please do not waste too much of your time on it.
Many thanks again[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)
[Overview]
File name: F:\My Documents\My Pictures\aaaaa Nikon Test\DSC_6302.JPG
File type: JPEG
File size: 9,707.9 KB
Creation date: 19/05/2013 10:51
Last modification: 19/05/2013 10:51
Make: NIKON CORPORATION (Nikon | Home)
Camera: NIKON D7000
Lens: AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm F3.5-5.6G IF-ED
Software: Ver.1.03
Dimension: 4928 x 3264 px (16.1 MP, 3:2)
Focal length: 18 mm (equiv. 27 mm)
Aperture: F11
Exposure time: 1/500"
ISO speed rating: 800/30°
Program: Normal program
Metering Mode: Center-weighted average
White Balance: AUTO1
Focus Mode: AF-S
Image Stabilizer: On
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
[Image]
Manufacturer: NIKON CORPORATION
Image input equipment model: NIKON D7000
Orientation of image: 0° (top/left)
Image resolution in width direction: 300 dpi
Image resolution in height direction: 300 dpi
Unit of X and Y resolution: inch
Software: Ver.1.03
File change date and time: 2013-05-19 10:51:45
Person who created the image:
Y and C positioning: Co-Sited
Copyright holder:
Exif IFD Pointer: 0x0000015C
GPS IFD Pointer: 0x0000839C
[Camera]
Exposure time: 1/500"
F number: F11
Exposure program: Normal program
ISO speed rating: 800/30°
??? (8830): 2
Exif version: Version 2.3
Date and time of original data generation: 2013-05-19 10:51:45
Date and time of digital data generation: 2013-05-19 10:51:45
Meaning of each component: YCbCr
Image compression mode: 4 bpp
Exposure bias: ±0 EV
Maximum lens aperture: 3.6 Av (F3.5)
Metering mode: Center-weighted average
Light source: Unknown
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 18 mm
Manufacturer notes: 0x000003E4
User comment:
DateTime subseconds: 0.3"
DateTimeOriginal subseconds: 0.3"
DateTimeDigitized subseconds: 0.3"
Supported Flashpix version: Version 1.0
Color space: sRGB
Image width: 4928 px
Image height: 3264 px
Interoperability IFD Pointer: 0x0000837E
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
File source: Digital Camera
Scene type: A directly photographed image
CFA pattern: [Red, Green], [Green, Blue]
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Auto exposure
White balance: Auto
Digital zoom ratio: 1x
Focal length in 35 mm film: 27 mm
Scene capture type: Landscape
Gain control: Low gain up
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Subject distance range: Unknown
[Manufacturer notes]
MakerNote Version: Version 2.1.0
ISO: 800/30°
Quality: Fine
White Balance: AUTO1
Focus Mode: AF-S
Flash Setting: Normal
Flash Type: None
White Balance Fine Tune: ±0
Color Balance 1: 2.01953125, 1.48828125, 1, 1
Program Shift: ±0 EV
Exposure Difference: ±0 EV
Preview IFD Pointer: 0x00002C56
Flash Exposure Compensation: ±0 EV
ISO Setting: 2500/35°
Image Boundary: left: 0, top: 0, width: 4928, height: 3264
??? (0017): 1.6.0
Flash Exposure Bracket Value: ±0 EV
Exposure Bracket Value: ±0 EV
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Color Space: sRGB
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Picture Control Version: 1.0.0
Picture Control Name: LANDSCAPE
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Picture Control Adjust: Default Settings
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Contrast: ±0
Brightness: ±0
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Hue Adjustment: ±0
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Toning Effect: not set
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Daylight Saving Time: Off
Date Format: day/month/year
ISO: 800/30°
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ISO (2): 2540/35°
ISO Expansion (2): Off
Lens Type: D, G, VR
Lens: 18-200mm F3.5-5.6
Flash Mode: Did Not Fire
Shooting Mode: Unused long exp. NR slowdown
Auto Bracket Release: Auto Release
Lens F-Stops: 5.33
Shot Info Version: 2.2.0
Noise Reduction: Off
Color Balance Version: 2.1.6
Lens Data Version: 2.0.4
Used Lens: AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm F3.5-5.6G IF-ED
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AF Aperture: F3.6
??? (0098): 6
??? (0098): 0
Focus Position: 0x44
??? (0098): 64
Focus Distance: 1.33 m
Focal Length: 18.3 mm
Lens ID Number: 139
Lens F-Stops: 5.33
Min Focal Length: 18.3 mm
Max Focal Length: 201.6 mm
Max Aperture At Min Focal: F3.6
Max Aperture At Max Focal: F5.7
MCU Version: 141
Effective Max Aperture: F3.6
??? (0098): 22
??? (0098): 92
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??? (0098): 4
??? (0098): 0
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??? (0098): F1?
Retouch History: None
Image Data Size: 9874729 bytes
??? (00A3): 0
Shutter Count: 6226
Flash Info Version: 1.0.4
Flash Model: No iTTL flash
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Vari Program: None
Multi Exposure Data Version: 1.0.0
Multi Exposure Mode: Off
Multi Exposure Shots: 0
Multi Exposure Auto Gain: Off
High ISO Noise Reduction: Off
AF Info Version: 1.0.0
??? (00B7): 0
AF Area Mode: Auto-area AF
Auto Focus: 0x3
??? (00B7): 1
File Informations Version: 1.0.0
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File Number: 6302
??? (00B9): 0x01FF0000

 

[Marcel]

Just a guess here, and a question to maybe help in this case. Does the flash work indoor in auto mode? Could it be possible that, if the flash had some kind of misfunction it would cause this warning to appear almost at all times?

Have you tried the flash to see if it does work?

​

 

[nickt]

I really never pay much attention to the flash warning. So when I saw this thread I tested it out on a few bright scenes. The warning seemed to flash consistently when shutter speed below 1/60 was called for.

Today it is dark and raining and I tried experimenting indoors. On a balanced indoor scene, the warning comes on below 1/60 as I saw before. BUT if I focus on a lighted lamp, I can get a quite a high, over 1/1000, shutter speed and the warning flashes. I tried this many times with other scenes that contain a lighted area and some shadow area with the same results, high shutter speed and a flash warning. I have to conclude that the warning is merely suggesting that the scene might benefit from fill flash. The owner's manual does not explain this in any useful way. I really never paid attention to this before, but I think that is the answer, it is just suggesting fill flash.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks JJM. Sorry, I still puzzled, but if Nickt says he sees it too, it must be a normal thing. My D800 and D300 do not have the D12 Fash Warning D12 menu, and I cannot make them do that flashing. Something new I guess, and I can believe other models might do it.

This image was 1/500 second, and the internal flash can never work at 1/500 second (external flash models can, but sync there requires Auto FP for even the shutter to work). If the internal flash were used, shutter speed would drop to 1/250 sync limit (menu E1 actually), and P mode would adjust the aperture accordingly. A different flash could be used though, and P mode could have shifted gears for (a different) flash, but a flash warning at 1/500 second seems unreasonable to me.

I rarely use P mode, but I could believe that maybe P mode is trying to offer more automation and help, where A mode does not? Camera automation is generally pretty dumb however. Meticulous maybe, it knows how to do what it does, but it is dumb in that it has absolutely zero human smarts about what the scene is or what it actually needs. The human photographer can be a huge help.

So far, it sounds like the solution is to turn OFF the D12 Flash Warning menu?

The Exif was from image number 6302, which was the first of the three images you posted. Says Program mode, ISO 800, 1/500 second, f/11, center weighted meter. I don't see anything odd there. I like Center metering best myself. Center metering was offering an averaged reading on the left dark and right bright areas of that center column. Seems just right.

We don't know what the Camera A mode Exif said, or how it might be different than this one, but much difference seems doubtful except aperture and shutter speed. So far, Nickt's theory sounds best to me.

 

[JJM]

Yep Marcel, the flash just fired on Auto. (Lightening Symbol showed in bottom right of viewfinder but not flashing)

Thanks Nickt , yes seems to be nothing to worry about as the shots that I have taken in P Mode with the flash symbol flashing but without using the flash look ok to me. I obviously have a lot to learn about the camera and its controls etc.
Many thanks to all

 

[JJM]

Thanks again WayneF for your assistance. It seems as if there is nothing to worry about. I went into the Custom Settings Menu and the Flash Warning item is greyed out and when I press ok it says something like "This option is not available on current settings" When the sun comes out again I will get out and about and have a bit more practise.

 

[nickt]

D12 is not available in Auto. Probably not available in scene modes either. I never noticed this flashing at me for 2 years.

 

[WayneF]

D12 is not available in Auto. Probably not available in scene modes either. I never noticed this flashing at me for 2 years.

Those modes would not warn, since they simply automatically pop open the internal flash, and automatically use it when deemed needed.


Surely they do not do this at 1/500 second in bright sun though ?

 

[nickt]

Surely they do not do this at 1/500 second in bright sun though ?

They have to be thinking fill flash. I tried a couple of feet away from a light bulb with spot metering right on the bulb and it was still flashing at me with a very fast shutter speed. On a less contrasty scene it goes back to flashing only below 1/60. The sun is out now and I just tried it outdoors. Almost anything I focus on that has strong shadows will make that thing flash even at a high shutter speed.
I figured out why I never noticed this.... I tend to shoot with my eye farther back from the view finder since I sometimes wear glasses and the flashing lightning bolt way to the right is just outside my field of view.