rocketman122
Senior Member
double post
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First Wedding In June (Continued from Flashes Forum)
- Thread starter mrpbnm
- Start date
@rocketman122 First, let me say Thank You. You even made a video... Thank You!
In the church, should I place the flashes on the seat for the duration of the ceremony? Or should I place them near the middle of the church for the processional and then move them closer to the front for the vows?
I think I deal with stress fairly well. But I guess I'll see in a couple of weeks. I don't want to be too creative on this one, just get it done with photos that the couple will be happy with.
Yes, I'm familiar with EC and FEC.
I am going to reread and summarize all the things you told me and study and practice them. I have about 2 weeks to get it down. One question: Now that you've seen my photos of the reception hall ceiling, do you still think I should just use the OCF stands at the shortest height and bounce them up (no white card?)
Many Thanks,
Phil
In the church, should I place the flashes on the seat for the duration of the ceremony? Or should I place them near the middle of the church for the processional and then move them closer to the front for the vows?
I think I deal with stress fairly well. But I guess I'll see in a couple of weeks. I don't want to be too creative on this one, just get it done with photos that the couple will be happy with.
Yes, I'm familiar with EC and FEC.
I am going to reread and summarize all the things you told me and study and practice them. I have about 2 weeks to get it down. One question: Now that you've seen my photos of the reception hall ceiling, do you still think I should just use the OCF stands at the shortest height and bounce them up (no white card?)
Many Thanks,
Phil
rocketman122
Senior Member
yes I think you must use ocf flash as additional supplementary light. look at your images. most are underexposed. heavy flash falloff and no even lighting. thats what I would do. you will get light fall off if u dont and your ocf will get light all over to create a nice blanket thats uniform so when you shoot from different angles most will have even light. and thats what you want. I sense youre hesitant. because 1600/3200 isnt enough to capture enough ambient light from the 7 pic example you posted. one of them specifically, the last one actually, which is the best of them and most natural looking is what you want to get it to. if you would have shot that with flash at -1.3, it would have looked perfect. the flash kills the flat look. like catchlights in portraits. notice images of portraits with bad or little catchlights look off. same here.
problem is in that last image, youre shooting at 1600 and at 1/60. thats shutter is fine for a static shot with no one moving but with the 70-200 you need 1/200 thats almost 2 stops. and them walking down the isle, you must shoot at 1/200. and I dont know how stable you are but even 1/ 60 isnt that fast to get extremely tack sharp images. the little added flash light will "fill" in what the camera/lens combo wont do. all the other images u posted are underexposed and look flat actually. the flash would blend with the camera exposure and give it a little zing.
get the flash stands in one of the seat. not in the walk aisle. you can keep the flash stand lowish. no issue there. people will see the stand and just not sit there. wedding photographers do it all the time. they place some camera gear in one of the seats to save it for another photog to sit there and shoot unobtrusively people walking down the aisle. you have 4 rows of seats. more than enough seating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECS_GPhXRWg
@rocketman122 I'm glad you made another video. It made things more clear.
At the church, I will use OCF with light stands in one row of seats. At the reception (I think for dance photos only) I will also use the OCF on light stands - flashes pointing up. In the church OCF at 1/16 power, at the reception 1/4 power.
Also, you've convinced me that I need not be afraid of higher ISO. Now, I have to practice.
Thanks for all of your help.
Cheers,
Phil
At the church, I will use OCF with light stands in one row of seats. At the reception (I think for dance photos only) I will also use the OCF on light stands - flashes pointing up. In the church OCF at 1/16 power, at the reception 1/4 power.
Also, you've convinced me that I need not be afraid of higher ISO. Now, I have to practice.
Thanks for all of your help.
Cheers,
Phil
rocketman122
Senior Member
I dont think youll need 1/4 power at the reception. problem with OCF is where to put it. its a low ceiling and a big area. unlike the church which has a high ceiling but the area your concentrated on is in one general area more or less.
looking at the reception, its going to be even more difficult than the church. why? low ceilings are a plus, but the back light coming in from the patio outside. ull have a hard time with that. dont shoot with the people with their backs against the wall. dont have a solution for you other than if youll shoot at high iso with their backs toward the window, youll get heavy flare. so lower the iso and bump up the flash to adjust levels so more light comes to their face then from the back. it will be flashed images but thats what u have to deal with. if its evebing, then for you, it will be better. nothing to affect your expsoure. I could deal with it better but still itd be challenging for me as well.
@rocketman122 Wedding is in 2 days... I have one final question: You mentioned sniping people with the 70-200. Whenever I zoom in on someone far away with on camera TTL everything closer to the camera (between me and the subject) will get nuked by the flash. Do you just use the 70-200 with the slave OCF only (on camera flash turned off)? What is your technique for using a long lens inside church or wherever?
rocketman122
Senior Member
WHats up Phil.
this is what ive been saying for the longest time. ttl accuracy is just crap. technology has advanced so much, but metering(in a/s/p) and flash metering hasnt at all. shooting with the least amount of backlight renders images underexposed. and you are absolutely right. when I too compose tight the flash goes bonkers and flashes too much. I either adjust through the EC button (when I shoot in M shoot mode) on the body or the flash. I dont know what ill get on the first shot I do. basically shoot, see what the flash gives and adjust what the exposure shows. I look at the image and from experience adjust more or less see what I need to adjust. then adjust and shoot the same. sometimes its spot on, sometimes, its all over. shooting in center weighted sometimes helps but if youll have ambient light at the place, try TTLBL. metering is just a crap shoot. you learn to adjust exposure based on experience. at times on the dance floor any amount of people can stand in front of me wanting a picture. I shoot the same image 3-6 times and can get ONLY 1 usuble image. the dj dance lights makes the metering go berzerk. a ray of light will force the flash to close early and when a few people are wearing dark clothes and you did a half body shot, filling the frame with mostly dark clothing the flash will fire much more. and the same with white. but yea ttl is a crap shoot that hasnt gotten accurate as technology advanced and people take it as well its exposing for 18% grey nonsense. the D5 is supposedly supposed to have native rez to 100k and can do 15fps but they cant do anything about metering.you can try and quickly close the flash and see if the OCF is enough (should be since youre shooting quite open) and it could be that the OCF will give too much light. in that case stop down with aperture, adjust the iso a bit down and the shutter up. personally I almost never touch the iso when I shoot. one less thing to deal with. I adjust the shutter/aperture as I need.
something I want to mention. lets say youre in minimum light and (theoretically) you have enough light to shoot at iso 3200 (your limit youre willing to shoot at for grain) and you have 1/160 shutter and at f/4 (f/4 so you can get more sharpness because many lenses are a bit soft open and benefit from the minor 1 stop close), I personally would open to f/3.2 and bump my shutter. get the focus accuracy down pat and you will see the boosted shutter speed bring you better sharpness over stopping down because movement blur shows up easily 70-200 images closer to the 200mm mark, even when using vr. hand shake is exxaggerated so get your shutter up. VR is good in certain situations like still images. not for being stressesd and people moving in weddings. in WA the details are small because youre including a lot of things in the image. when youre sniping closeups, the fine details are in most of the image. tight head shot or torso shot. you need to get it frozen sharp. so get the shutter up and it will compensate for needing to stop down. it wont compensate for dof though so pay attention how you shoot 2+ people. if youre sniping candid shots then dont worry about it. but if two people stand in front of you, try to get parallel to them.
also pay attention, there is this phenomenon with people who stand in a group (and the bigger the group, the more pronnounced) they start doing a circle in front of you. those specifically who are at the edges of the frame. you have to minimize this. cause even shooting at f/8 wont help. stay at your shutter aperture. just adjust them. you have to guide them. be consident when standing in froint of people and they will feelcalmer. also pay attention to the men. they have a tendency to hug with their arms up and the jacket opens. so tell them to hag the person with their hands low around the waits of those people. watch the mens ties looking sloppy and watch womens breast line. some dont notice their cleavage showing badly. just be discrete and say "you might want o adjust your dress a bit" something like that. you want them to look their best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah0SX65tyuk&feature=youtu.be
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Love Nikon
Banned
Well I shoot 60 weddings a year with D7100/D800 and have none of your problems everything auto iso at f5.6 or F8 and perfect exposure ..Flash no problem .if i forget and leave it on outside no problem ..shots in the car some with flash some without no problem...
All you need is a Meikie MK 300 and a flash flipper -1stop . ( SB 400 does not high speed sync)...No side shaddows ..perfect.
As for disco dancing ..why would you want to use flash ?? Might as well go dance in a field at mid day ...And if peope stand in front of you then you must have not been giveing out the right vibes all day ..flashy lights no problem I take my own led and lazer array to light the couple and shoot in P mode
All you need is a Meikie MK 300 and a flash flipper -1stop . ( SB 400 does not high speed sync)...No side shaddows ..perfect.
As for disco dancing ..why would you want to use flash ?? Might as well go dance in a field at mid day ...And if peope stand in front of you then you must have not been giveing out the right vibes all day ..flashy lights no problem I take my own led and lazer array to light the couple and shoot in P mode
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Hey @rocketman122 thanks again for the tons of info not the least of that being the videos. Many thanks.
@lovenikon ( can't get you name too work) thank you too. I'd like to see some images some day, but it's too late for me to entertain using your concepts at this wedding. I hope we can discuss it later
@lovenikon ( can't get you name too work) thank you too. I'd like to see some images some day, but it's too late for me to entertain using your concepts at this wedding. I hope we can discuss it later
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Thank You @rocketman122 The wedding happened and I got some good shots. There were problems (like many weddings): The church lady started the wedding with the bride still getting dressed. She didn't even come and warn us first. Thankfully, the groom's mother sent the bridal party back to come down the aisle again! Otherwise, I would have had to re-enact their photos after the ceremony. One of my OCF didn't work, but I just rolled with it. What else could I do? Anyway, all in all it was a good experience. I took over 1,000 photos. I'm doing the PP now...
Congrats. A big sigh of relief I bet.
rocketman122
Senior Member
the hardest part is when things change when u have a set plan. when I do the ktuba (the agreement between bg in jewish ceremonies) they know they need to call the video and stills guys first. it has happened in the past when I was shooting film that they didnt call me and half way through I find out they were doing it without me. usually its done in a different part of the venue and im shooting guests arriving and mingling and im waiting for someone to let me know its starting. we have weddings here with that are on average 300+ people so they are quite big and get hectic.
you should invest in sync cords. when the flash doesnt want to fire, connect the flash with a sync cord to the slave and that USUALLY will work. they cost peanuts on ebay. coiled is better than straight so you can wrap the slave around the flash body if you need. buy 4-5 and throw them in the bag. setting up and testing gear is important and im sure you did that. next time you could have tried to put it in slave mode by using the optic slave built in the flash itself.
maybe it went into sleep mode and when you can to use them they needed to wake up and the slave doesnt have wake on command the newer slaves have like the yongnuo 603II.
Amazon.com : Yongnuo RF-603NII-N3 Wireless Flash Trigger Kit for Nikon Nikon D90 / D7000 / D7100 / D5000 / D5100 / D5200 / D3100 / D3200 / D600 : Electronics
1000 pics is good. filter hard. choose only the best. quality over quantity. I shoot a lot just so I can get that great photo. your situation isnt so bad like mine but we have venues here that are like night clubs.
I can shoot two people standing in front of me for a picture 6 times and get one good image. the lights are all over and the flash tries to cope but a ray of light comes in and it drives the ttl crazy. its thinking too bright, too dark too bright too dark. and the lights shine in their face for a second then another comes in. the lights are moving all over the place.
you should invest in sync cords. when the flash doesnt want to fire, connect the flash with a sync cord to the slave and that USUALLY will work. they cost peanuts on ebay. coiled is better than straight so you can wrap the slave around the flash body if you need. buy 4-5 and throw them in the bag. setting up and testing gear is important and im sure you did that. next time you could have tried to put it in slave mode by using the optic slave built in the flash itself.
maybe it went into sleep mode and when you can to use them they needed to wake up and the slave doesnt have wake on command the newer slaves have like the yongnuo 603II.
Amazon.com : Yongnuo RF-603NII-N3 Wireless Flash Trigger Kit for Nikon Nikon D90 / D7000 / D7100 / D5000 / D5100 / D5200 / D3100 / D3200 / D600 : Electronics
1000 pics is good. filter hard. choose only the best. quality over quantity. I shoot a lot just so I can get that great photo. your situation isnt so bad like mine but we have venues here that are like night clubs.
I can shoot two people standing in front of me for a picture 6 times and get one good image. the lights are all over and the flash tries to cope but a ray of light comes in and it drives the ttl crazy. its thinking too bright, too dark too bright too dark. and the lights shine in their face for a second then another comes in. the lights are moving all over the place.
Love Nikon
Banned
I removed ny post because most of the stuff you are doing in church would not be allowed in the Uk and the disco areas are much smaller here ..
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Wow! I just loved the views of your wedding’s event venue. I must say that your wedding planner has done amazing job. Many many congratulation to him too! I was also looking for best wedding planner nyc for my wedding reception arrangements. Can you please help me on my search?
The wedding venue is very good.An the dance looks very nice!Also the backless wedding dresses you wearing are so charming .
Thanks for you suggestion.
Thanks for you suggestion.