Do I need it? Do you use? How often? HSS

[cwgrizz]

OK, I have read a lot of Wayne's stuff as well as other threads here on flashes and at one time thought I new what I was going to buy in a hot shoe flash, but now.................
I have a D7100 which has joined a D5300. The VK750II was going to be my purchase, but now with the Commander mode of the D7100, I am looking at possibly the Yongnuo 565 or 568. Here is my question concerning the last two: the 565 does not have HSS capabilities, but the 568 does. Those of you who have a camera/flash combo that is HSS capable, how often do you use it, what type of photography do you use it for, etc. Sport action maybe?

Just clue me in, please. Ha!

 

[Horoscope Fish]

OK, I have read a lot of Wayne's stuff as well as other threads here on flashes and at one time thought I new what I was going to buy in a hot shoe flash, but now.................
I have a D7100 which has joined a D5300. The VK750II was going to be my purchase, but now with the Commander mode of the D7100, I am looking at possibly the Yongnuo 565 or 568. Here is my question concerning the last two: the 565 does not have HSS capabilities, but the 568 does. Those of you who have a camera/flash combo that is HSS capable, how often do you use it, what type of photography do you use it for, etc. Sport action maybe?

I have used HSS but you could count the number of times on the fingers of one hand (assuming it has the default number to start with). The few times I've used HSS I was shooting portraits in very strong sunlight. HSS allowed for the higher shutter speeds needed for the wider apertures I wanted to use (e.g. f/2) so I could get shots with a very shallow depth of field. That same goal probably could have been achieved with a something like a four-stop ND filter, but the HSS option was there so I used it.

How useful a feature it is, I think, depends greatly on what you shoot most often and how. For me it's just another tool in the bag.

 

[WayneF]

I use flash a lot (anytime indoors)... because I am not a fan of high ISO. High ISO is great when there is no alternative, but it is never first choice for me.

And normally the speedlight is on the hot shoe (bounce flash when possible, etc), I use both Manual flash and TTL flash at different times. I think a TTL flash is extremely useful, and we should have the option, even if we can still select manual flash mode.

For two flashes not on the hot shoe, I often use manual flash with conventional trigger modes (which for me is rarely radio triggers), but sometimes I will use the Commander (and sometimes TTL). Commander works well for me indoors, with two remote flashes. I guess I think of Commander for the quick automatic shots, it is great to get in and out quick (with TTL). Commander TTL offers lighting ratio as an easy automatic option. Still, I favor manual flash and a hand held meter for anything more serious with more time to fuss with it (and often with studio lights). Except of course when the subject is moving fast. TTL seems required for action, unless you focus on one spot.

HSS, I have had no use for it. It is fun to play with, but I find no realistic or necessary use. IMO, the only possible use would be portraits in bright sun, but only then when you want to use f/2.8 for no depth of field. I never do, I'm a big fan of depth of field. So otherwise, conventional TTL flash compensation works fine for me in bright sun, I have no issue with f/11. In sunlight, HSS probably cannot give faster shutter speeds for stopping sports action, because that action is typically beyond the range of the minimal HSS flash power. If not in sunlight, regular speedlight flash mode runs circles around HSS, power, range, motion stopping, etc.

The HSS concept was invented long ago (I dunno when, but I know more than 60 years ago), with longer burning FP flash bulbs. Camera FP shutters synced flash at only 1/60 second back then and the longer burning FP bulbs allowed faster shutter speed, considered a plus sometimes (and of course, often it makes no real difference, when the ambient is not fully exposed). HSS is same thing for electronic flash.. But today, shutters are much faster, 1/200 second, and the D7100 and others can do 1/320 second with flash.

But if the camera does provide the feature, be it TTL, or Commander, or HSS, it would seem very reasonable to get a flash that can also do it, in case something does come up in the future. We don't have to use it. But things do happen, and minds could change. TTL certainly seems like the first essential to me.

 

[hark]

I have not used it, but when I bought my flashes, I wanted ones that would allow HSS. Bryan Peterson has a book on flash photography that is centered around HSS. Some of his photos/effects look really interesting, and if I ever want to try them, I don't have to go out and buy another flash unit. If you can manage the difference in price now, should you ever decide to try HSS, you won't need to upgrade to a different flash unit.

Hey...maybe someone can run an HSS photo contest! :encouragement:

 

[cwgrizz]

Thanks for the replies. (Thinking out loud now) At the present time the VK750II would do all that I have in mind at the present. Hot shoe on camera for indoor shoot under fluorescent lighting. Some action, but I should be close enough for the flash to be useful. The iTTL mode should work fine. The YN565 will be a step up and has the Commander capability which can be used with the D7100, but not the D5300 and could be useful in the future (maybe). And then the YN568EX has the HSS which the D7100 also has HSS. $55 vs $85 vs $105. Is $30 or $50 more going to be worth it? Only I can say for sure. Ha!!

I need to make my decision soon, because I will have a use for it next month and I would like to play with it some before hand. Ha!

 

[cwgrizz]

Along with that, I just thought of something else. Can the Newer VK750II be placed on the camera and still have a YN560 or YN568 then work in Command Mode from the camera?

 

[WayneF]

Along with that, I just thought of something else. Can the Newer VK750II be placed on the camera and still have a YN560 or YN568 then work in Command Mode from the camera?

Neither the VK750 or the YN560 can work with the Commander or do HSS. YN560 doesn't even do TTL.

Any flash placed on the hot shoe will have to be a Commaner itself to use a commander, since it blocks the internal flash as commander. That then means mighty few non-Nikon flashes. The Aperlight YN-700 is one that can (be a commander), but its commander mode is extremely awkward to use.


The VK750 is a nice little flash, and an extreme bargain, but it has slightly less power than the Yongnuos. Maybe 0.7 stop less power. Which is more than half, and normally plenty and enough, except that bounce often needs all the power we can get.

 

[cwgrizz]

Thanks Wayne, you answered my question. I messed up knowing that the 560 was not Commander Capable but typed it anyway. Ha! Two 568's would be the only way to use the Commander Mode with one on camera and one off. Of course the On Camera Flash (built in) could be shut down (output wise) and still be used to trigger the 568's in Commander mode. Correct? Both 568's off camera that is

 

[hark]

Wait...now you lost me. In your original post you asked about the 565 and 568. Suddenly it switched to the 560 and 568. Did you get your question answered regarding the 565?

 

[cwgrizz]

Wait...now you lost me. In your original post you asked about the 565 and 568. Suddenly it switched to the 560 and 568. Did you get your question answered regarding the 565?

Don't mind me, I don't know what I am doing at this point. Ha! Originally it was the 565 & 568. I really don't know how I got the 560 thrown into the mix. Too many choices and no money to try them all.

Sorry for the confusion. I think I know what my answer is. I think I will go with a Commander capable flash, but I am still up in the air on the HSS. What ever I do, it will be an all of a sudden, spur of the moment, jump on it type of buy. LOL

 

[hark]

Don't mind me, I don't know what I am doing at this point. Ha! Originally it was the 565 & 568. I really don't know how I got the 560 thrown into the mix. Too many choices and no money to try them all.

Sorry for the confusion. I think I know what my answer is. I think I will go with a Commander capable flash, but I am still up in the air on the HSS. What ever I do, it will be an all of a sudden, spur of the moment, jump on it type of buy. LOL

That's fine!

In all seriousness, perhaps we need a couple of new threads. Post your HSS images and Post your Commander Flash images. Perhaps it would get people to try them out and engage in dialogues asking/answering questions.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks Wayne, you answered my question. I messed up knowing that the 560 was not Commander Capable but typed it anyway. Ha! Two 568's would be the only way to use the Commander Mode with one on camera and one off. Of course the On Camera Flash (built in) could be shut down (output wise) and still be used to trigger the 568's in Commander mode. Correct? Both 568's off camera that is

No, the YN568 does not contain a Commander. It can be a remote but not the commander itself. And if you put one on the hot shoe, then the internal flash cannot be the commander (because its door will not open).

Speaking of "pure" manual mode, it could be used in manual mode, and could trigger a remote also in manual mode, but this is not at all the same thing as being commander. Commander also allows TTL and lighting ratio, etc. The difference is all the commander signal flashing that occurs before the shutter. Saying, commander Manual mode is anything BUT real pure manual mode. All that extra flashing of commander signals is just not compatible with anything else in manual mode, like optical slaves or light meters.

There are two aspects of "commander"... the ability to be a remote flash triggered by the commander signals, and there is also the ability to be a commander, to control other remote flashes. A few of the Nikon flashes can be a hot shoe commander, but it is quite rare in third party flashes.

There is not much wrong with the internal flash as commander. The camera Commander menu can use it as the commander, but can disable its regular flash output (it still flashes commander commands, all before the shutter opens). Which can cause subject blinking in the pictures. There is also an infrared filter for the camera flash that can help a lot.

The SU-800 commander (on hot shoe) has advantage of being filtered to infrared, invisible so less likely to cause blinking in the subject, but it has a little less range (as commander). It could even be a commander on a camera like D5300 without one, except that models without commander also do not have FV Lock feature to be able to handle the subjects blinking. The SU-800 infrared minimizes that need, but if TTL is used, the remote flashes still do preflash (not infrared), which could still cause subject blinking. Less likely, but far from impossible. The blinking IS a problem, but is easily handled by FV Lock.

If you don't need HSS, the YN-565 would be very nice (can be a remote for the camera Commander). If you did want HSS, the YN-568 ought to be about the same, only real other difference it that it does not support an external power supply, which is doubtfully needed. Those would do anything the others can do (VK750 or YN560), and more too.

 

[cwgrizz]

A YN568EX is now on the way. It should be here in about a week to 10 days.

Thanks to all for your input and pray my wife doesn't find out. Ha!!

 

[RocketCowboy]

A YN568EX is now on the way. It should be here in about a week to 10 days.

Thanks to all for your input and pray my wife doesn't find out. Ha!!

You ordered before I could answer ...

I have three YN568EXs because I was pretty sure I wanted HSS. I've used HSS in exactly one shoot, and then it was with a Phottix Odin controller and a set of Odin strobes.

I like knowing that I have the functionality if it's ever needed (like Paul said, there's lots of ways to get around it), but I just haven't really needed it yet.

 

[cwgrizz]

You ordered before I could answer ...

I have three YN568EXs because I was pretty sure I wanted HSS. I've used HSS in exactly one shoot, and then it was with a Phottix Odin controller and a set of Odin strobes.

I like knowing that I have the functionality if it's ever needed (like Paul said, there's lots of ways to get around it), but I just haven't really needed it yet.

That has always been my problem. I want the capabilities, just in case.... I am that way with almost everything. Ha! It boiled down to almost the flip of a coin to decide what I wanted to do, but I couldn't find a three sided coin. VK750II, YN565, or YN568EX. I had them all in "MY CART", but then removed two by using the One Potato, Two Potato.... game. Ha!

Oh and I read almost everything you and others have said about the Yongnuo flashes.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Oh and I read almost everything you and others have said about the Yongnuo flashes.

The 568EX is an excellent flash; you have chosen wisely.

 

[mikeee]

I think I am about 2 weeks ahead of you in purchases, cgrizz.
I had my D7100 just before you, and I have had the 568EX just a couple weeks.
I just tried out the commander mode with the builtin flash today.
Now I have to learn a little about when you use some of these features!

 

[cwgrizz]

The 568EX showed up today. Charged up some batteries and hit the flash test button a couple of times. It flashes. Ha! Now to play with it on a camera and try to learn something. Too much to learn and too little time left.

 

[Blacktop]

The 568EX showed up today. Charged up some batteries and hit the flash test button a couple of times. It flashes. Ha! Now to play with it on a camera and try to learn something. Too much to learn and too little time left.

When you're outside, don't point it up. It won't bounce off the clouds.:encouragement:

 

[RocketCowboy]

When you're outside, don't point it up. It won't bounce off the clouds.:encouragement:

With a big enough battery pack it might!