D800 as Point and Shoot
- Thread starter JDFlood
- Start date
I like this conversation and appreciate the post. I really do. These are thoughts I've had as well. There is not question that cameras are getting smarter. And just like any other advancing technology, are they replacing the need for human input? Automation is only successful if it eliminates manual input. I've had these thoughts as well. And all it takes is a few shots in Auto or Auto ISO and I decide... no, my images need me.
I agree that with a lot of computing power cameras are becoming smarter day by day. I would also like to capture moments just as I see them, with minimal twiddling of dials.
I started with film more than 40 years ago. All of the film cameras I had used were fully manual, where you had to transfer the meter reading to the speed and aperture dials. The ISO was fixed.:grumpy: Depending on whether I needed the DOF or to shoot action I would set the speed/aperture combination.
Now a days I mostly shoot with the Cell phone camera. It is excellent if the light is there, else it sucks. So what I would like a camera to have in today's highly computerized environment
1. High MP
2. Excellent low light capabilities
3. Modes
- Sports for action
- High DOF for general shots
- Shallow DOF for portraits
With these capabilities most of my photographic needs are satisfied. If Nokia had excellent low light performance in its 40MP camera, it would be all I need for 95% of the time.
I started with film more than 40 years ago. All of the film cameras I had used were fully manual, where you had to transfer the meter reading to the speed and aperture dials. The ISO was fixed.:grumpy: Depending on whether I needed the DOF or to shoot action I would set the speed/aperture combination.
Now a days I mostly shoot with the Cell phone camera. It is excellent if the light is there, else it sucks. So what I would like a camera to have in today's highly computerized environment
1. High MP
2. Excellent low light capabilities
3. Modes
- Sports for action
- High DOF for general shots
- Shallow DOF for portraits
With these capabilities most of my photographic needs are satisfied. If Nokia had excellent low light performance in its 40MP camera, it would be all I need for 95% of the time.
Cowleystjames
Senior Member
I'm impressed that no one has shot you down in flames. On other forums I frequent, the hostility that statement would have incited would have been cataclysmic!
Your right though, you bought the camera, you use it how you like. If auto is working for you then use it, just expect some hard liners to turn in their (yet to be occupied) graves and spout anger and fury that you must use manual settings with the sun in your face and Pluto aligned with Saturn.
We'll done that man....
Your right though, you bought the camera, you use it how you like. If auto is working for you then use it, just expect some hard liners to turn in their (yet to be occupied) graves and spout anger and fury that you must use manual settings with the sun in your face and Pluto aligned with Saturn.
We'll done that man....
Bob Blaylock
Senior Member
My first “real” camera, even before my F2—an Argus C3, one of the very first, made in 1939 or 1940. Argus continue to make variants on this model until some time in the late 1960s. It was popular, even when it ought to have been considered long-obsolete. Several times, sales of this camera slumped, and Argus announced its intention to discontinue it, which would trigger a run by dealers and customers to buy up what they thought would be the last of them.
ISO wasn't really fixed. You just had to choose it when you chose what film to use, and then you were stuck with that until you used up that roll of film and could start a different roll. You couldn't change it from one picture to the next, as you can on a modern digital camera. And it didn't go as high, either. I think the fastest film I ever shot (other than some B&W Polaroid that went up to 3000) was Tri-X at about 400.
I know what you mean. I had this suspicion from other posts that what I was saying was heresy. But it is funny, when I think about it.... I am the one that is probably using the camera as intended... I have "the bible" on this camera... Don't remember author... Hogan? And I read all the details about the incredible sophistication of the auto functions... And so learned how to use them... But given all the detailed comments on line, it sounded like most other people were still choosing everything manually. That is what prompted me to start the post. Hate mail would prove I am right. In the absence of facts... It becomes religious... And the guns come out. jD
Just a comment to clarify something that may confuse people. There isn't a setting for minimum ISO. That is always ISO 100 when Auto ISO is turned on. What I believe you are referring to is the minimum shutter speed setting. Also keep in mind that the camera can override either of these settings in certain situations.
While I agree with the other responses that basically say, if you bought it, you can use it however you want, I always question why people are so quick to use auto-ISO. Personally, ISO is the last thing I will adjust after aperture and shutter speed simply because as soon as I start adjusting it I start losing DR and start introducing more noise. If I could stay at ISO 100 all of the time I would but of course that is impossible especially when shooting sports in poorly lit environments.
As long as you understand the compromises and are okay with that, use your camera however you want.
While I agree with the other responses that basically say, if you bought it, you can use it however you want, I always question why people are so quick to use auto-ISO. Personally, ISO is the last thing I will adjust after aperture and shutter speed simply because as soon as I start adjusting it I start losing DR and start introducing more noise. If I could stay at ISO 100 all of the time I would but of course that is impossible especially when shooting sports in poorly lit environments.
As long as you understand the compromises and are okay with that, use your camera however you want.
Minimum shutter speed is probably what I meant. I am not quick to use auto ISO. I normally leave ISO = 200, unless I think I am going to be light bound... Which happens to me a lot. I shoot in the Pacific NW... In the forest, on rainy days most of the time... So light is always an issue. So, I am careful to choose a max ISO I can live with.
Yes, you have to understand the compromises... And most of the time the camera does exactly what I would have done, only quicker. This frees me to do the creative part of the process, identifying the shot, subject, distance, composition... Lighting. This is what automation frees the human up for. Getting the exposure correct, is a lot like pumping gas, a necessary part, but not creative.
JD
Grumpy Old Bag
Senior Member
Hi JD,
I am one of those, “get to know your camera to avoid PP” freaks. I spend hours learning exactly what each setting can and cannot do. All the time the Photoshoppers spend in front of the computer “fixing” images I spend experimenting with settings.
I shoot any mode that I find appropriate. Shooting in Programmed Auto makes it so much easier when you are under pressure and you know you are going to mess up.
The only Manual mode on your camera is M, the A,S and P are basically Auto modes. Shooting in P is in my opinion no sin, provided you are not using a D800 and then “fix” your images in Photoshop. If you are you are wasting a very good camera and you could have bought a cheapie and spend more on a computer and software.
Shooting in P mode you still have parameters you can control and it still allows you to be more creative that those shooting non Pro cameras in Auto mode. As long as you know what parameters to set up correctly to get the shots looking like you like them to look, there is no reason why you should not use P mode. If you are comfortable shooting in P mode, like some others finding comfort shooting in A mode or S mode ( both are Automatic modes), so be it.
If you tell me you are “fixing” images in Photoshop after capturing it with a D800, I am not going to be very impressed. At most you should only enhance images coming from a D800, no more. If for any reason, you need to do more than you can do in Lightroom, you are wasting the D800.
Enjoy shooting in any mode you like, as long as you get the shots (without Photoshopping it).
(This is my personal opinion.)
I am one of those, “get to know your camera to avoid PP” freaks. I spend hours learning exactly what each setting can and cannot do. All the time the Photoshoppers spend in front of the computer “fixing” images I spend experimenting with settings.
I shoot any mode that I find appropriate. Shooting in Programmed Auto makes it so much easier when you are under pressure and you know you are going to mess up.
The only Manual mode on your camera is M, the A,S and P are basically Auto modes. Shooting in P is in my opinion no sin, provided you are not using a D800 and then “fix” your images in Photoshop. If you are you are wasting a very good camera and you could have bought a cheapie and spend more on a computer and software.
Shooting in P mode you still have parameters you can control and it still allows you to be more creative that those shooting non Pro cameras in Auto mode. As long as you know what parameters to set up correctly to get the shots looking like you like them to look, there is no reason why you should not use P mode. If you are comfortable shooting in P mode, like some others finding comfort shooting in A mode or S mode ( both are Automatic modes), so be it.
If you tell me you are “fixing” images in Photoshop after capturing it with a D800, I am not going to be very impressed. At most you should only enhance images coming from a D800, no more. If for any reason, you need to do more than you can do in Lightroom, you are wasting the D800.
Enjoy shooting in any mode you like, as long as you get the shots (without Photoshopping it).
(This is my personal opinion.)
Even I try to get it right in the camera, may be a hang over from film days. Spending time in Photoshop in "correcting" the photographs is not my idea of photography. Yes recovering shadows or highlights is fine as the camera DR is much more than the print DR, but that is just about it.
The only exception is to clear up the back ground or to get rid of those pesky electrical wires which always seem to insert themselves in you scenery.
The only exception is to clear up the back ground or to get rid of those pesky electrical wires which always seem to insert themselves in you scenery.
Now I think I know where some of you are coming from. To me that is the film paradigm: "I have to choose between the sunset or the foreground." With a D600 or D800 (HDR function does not do RAW) , I think you are leaving a HUGE part of the value of the camera on the table unless you post process (enhance, not fix). There are 4 or 5 fstops of additional info in the photo when you capture it optimally. But you have to post process to use that information. The automatic functions will attempt get the maximum data collected, so not to loose any highlights (if you keep your eye on the blinkie screen)... So it will be a good photo with as much info as possible, this is what I shoot for... and auto is really good at. This is why I think the auto functions work so well. However, you are not going to perceive it as working so well if you are making strong highlight or low light choices... then the camera is never going to make those like you would. But, it isn't trying to.
If you adjust away from the "optimal exposure", then the camera is not going to get the maximum data. So say you set it so the sunset looks perfect and foreground black, you have made a "this versus that" (film) choice and are taking a sub optimal photo because you are loosing details from the lowlights. If you take what I am calling the "optimal" photo... you capture the maximum detail, then you can have both (the sunset and foreground) in post processing, or exactly what balance you want. You are then getting the full capability of the camera. Post processing isn't chemicals, and a dark lab anymore. You can do all of the adjustments I am talking about in about the same amount of time it takes to upload your photos... after all, ya got the computer. All this can be done on Importation, then you can just check and fine tune or not.
I think 30 or 40% of the "goodness" of my D800 comes from the valued derived through workflow. To me "getting it right in the camera" is to optimally get ALL the information possible so I have the best possible photo when done (like a perfect negative). This means to get the optimal exposure that will allow the perfect photo to come out in post processing, which is midway between washed out highlights and too dark lowlights... I think this is the crux of why I think the auto functions are so good; they can nail the "optimal photo / negative" almost every time. I want no trade-offs. It works really well for that.
JD
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