D3400 with Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G - Live View manual focus?

[GatineauRoss]

Hi
My first post to this group.
I bought (2023) this camera new to me for the purposes of photographing mushrooms in the nature - macro photography.
I recently purchased the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens to improve my macro photos.
I will be using an Oben CTT-1000L Carbon Fiber Tabletop Tripod (Long) to steady the camera, and a Wireless ML-L3 Remote.

When I setup the camera body and micro lens for manual focus, I see a red box outline on the Live View screen.

My question is: how can I tell the image is in focus in Live View under manual focus? Thank you.

 

[Clovishound]

I would recommend that once you compose, use the magnification button on the left side of the backscreen to enlarge the image. It's the button with a magnifying glass symbol and a + sign in the middle.

Be aware that there will be a delay on shutter release when using LV on the D3400. I believe that it resets the mirror to the down position and then goes through the normal process of raising the mirror and taking the image. Anyway it does a lot of clunking before it actually takes the picture. Fortunately, the mushrooms will sit still for you. If you get into insects, it can become an issue.

Good luck, and we would love to see some of your images. Macro is probably my favorite genre of photography.

 

[GatineauRoss]

I would recommend that once you compose, use the magnification button on the left side of the backscreen to enlarge the image. It's the button with a magnifying glass symbol and a + sign in the middle.

Be aware that there will be a delay on shutter release when using LV on the D3400. I believe that it resets the mirror to the down position and then goes through the normal process of raising the mirror and taking the image. Anyway it does a lot of clunking before it actually takes the picture. Fortunately, the mushrooms will sit still for you. If you get into insects, it can become an issue.

Good luck, and we would love to see some of your images. Macro is probably my favorite genre of photography.

Thank you for your reply. I have a couple of follow up questions.

1) I can press the magnification button five times, and each time the image is magnified on the Live View screen. What does pressing the magnification button actually do. Because the image taken looks the same whether I pressed the magnification button any one of the five times or don't press the magnification button at all?

2) If I use the magnification button, how do I know if the the image is in focus when viewed from the Live View screen? Am I to assume that wherever the red box is located within my composition that is what is in focus?

 

[BF Hammer]

Your eyes are unable to see what is in focus? Zooming in allows you to see the micro details of the photo to judge focus. Turn the focus ring and watch the details get sharper or blurry.

 

[Needa]

Thank you for your reply. I have a couple of follow up questions.

1) I can press the magnification button five times, and each time the image is magnified on the Live View screen. What does pressing the magnification button actually do. Because the image taken looks the same whether I pressed the magnification button any one of the five times or don't press the magnification button at all?

It only enlarges the image on th LCD screen. Unlike phone cameras which often have digital enlargement the size of the picture will remain the same size. The only way to increase the size of the image with a fixed focal length lens is to get closer until you reach the minimum focal distance.

2) If I use the magnification button, how do I know if the the image is in focus when viewed from the Live View screen? Am I to assume that wherever the red box is located within my composition that is what is in focus?

No the red box will not change it only changes if you use one of the automated focus functions. You are able to chose the area you want to see by moving the area selected by using the Multi-selector on the back of the camera.

 

[Clovishound]

As BF Hammer said, it is basically a focusing aid. It's much easier to see if an area is in focus when it is magnified. As you discovered, It doesn't change the magnification of the final image, only what you see on the backscreen.

Another thing I frequently do is to look at the image after taking it, and magnifying it using that same button, to make sure that the image is not only in focus, but the focus is exactly where I want it. That is more critical with macro than other types of photography that have more depth of field. With a clump of mushrooms, you may not be able to get the entire clump in focus. In this case, you will have a choice of where your pint of focus is for aesthetic reasons.

At some point you will probably want to try focus stacking, if you haven't already. That can make a huge difference in your macro images, especially with static subjects like mushrooms.

 

[GatineauRoss]

It only enlarges the image on th LCD screen. Unlike phone cameras which often have digital enlargement the size of the picture will remain the same size. The only way to increase the size of the image with a fixed focal length lens is to get closer until you reach the minimum focal distance.


No the red box will not change it only changes if you use one of the automated focus functions. You are able to chose the area you want to see by moving the area selected by using the Multi-selector on the back of the camera.

Thank you for your replying to my questions. You have provided me with good information.

 

[GatineauRoss]

As BF Hammer said, it is basically a focusing aid. It's much easier to see if an area is in focus when it is magnified. As you discovered, It doesn't change the magnification of the final image, only what you see on the backscreen.

Another thing I frequently do is to look at the image after taking it, and magnifying it using that same button, to make sure that the image is not only in focus, but the focus is exactly where I want it. That is more critical with macro than other types of photography that have more depth of field. With a clump of mushrooms, you may not be able to get the entire clump in focus. In this case, you will have a choice of where your pint of focus is for aesthetic reasons.

At some point you will probably want to try focus stacking, if you haven't already. That can make a huge difference in your macro images, especially with static subjects like mushrooms.

The more replies I get to my questions the better understanding I am developing on the use of the magnification button...I think I get it now. Thank you for all your replies.

And yes I have tried focus stacking, and I will definitely make it a regular practice when shooting mushrooms.

 

[GatineauRoss]

I should explain, I had an expectation of getting some type of camera signal that I was in focus when using manual focus with the Live View.

I now understand how to use the camera to focus my images (magnification button )with the micro lens and manual focus as seen through the Live View.

I do have a follow up question.

For macro photography of still subjects like mushrooms with the D3400 and the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens, I do have a choice of using Automatic focus or Manual focus.

Is one method of focus better than the other, and if so why? Thank you.

 

[BF Hammer]

I should explain, I had an expectation of getting some type of camera signal that I was in focus when using manual focus with the Live View.

I now understand how to use the camera to focus my images (magnification button )with the micro lens and manual focus as seen through the Live View.

I do have a follow up question.

For macro photography of still subjects like mushrooms with the D3400 and the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens, I do have a choice of using Automatic focus or Manual focus.

Is one method of focus better than the other, and if so why? Thank you.

I want to say it's no problem, just do this and that. But that is not true. You can move the focus point square around the screen to select your point of focus. The camera will to focus there and should beep to acknowledge focus (if in default operation). Your mushroom subjects are not really moving so you may find it more accurate to do the manual focus. But if subject moves, you may have to autofocus to get the shot done faster.

The truth here is that DSLR Liveview is primitive compared to a Z-series mirrorless body. Every thing you are asking for that D3400 to do is solved in a Z50 camera. On a mirrorless you would set up, touch the screen to move the focus point indicator, the color of the indicator will change to green to indicate in focus, and it is ready to take the photo. And manual focus has a different aid called "focus peaking" where everything that is currently in focus has a yellow outline drawn around it. It is an outstanding aid for a still-life. But that is not available in a D3400.

But this is about working with your D3400, so yes you do have to work a bit at getting the correct focus. And there are advantages and disadvantages with both autofocus and manual focus. But with a still-life subject using Liveview, you will get the best focus manually if you zoom in the display so you can judge spot you want to be focused on.

 

[GatineauRoss]

I want to say it's no problem, just do this and that. But that is not true. You can move the focus point square around the screen to select your point of focus. The camera will to focus there and should beep to acknowledge focus (if in default operation). Your mushroom subjects are not really moving so you may find it more accurate to do the manual focus. But if subject moves, you may have to autofocus to get the shot done faster.

The truth here is that DSLR Liveview is primitive compared to a Z-series mirrorless body. Every thing you are asking for that D3400 to do is solved in a Z50 camera. On a mirrorless you would set up, touch the screen to move the focus point indicator, the color of the indicator will change to green to indicate in focus, and it is ready to take the photo. And manual focus has a different aid called "focus peaking" where everything that is currently in focus has a yellow outline drawn around it. It is an outstanding aid for a still-life. But that is not available in a D3400.

But this is about working with your D3400, so yes you do have to work a bit at getting the correct focus. And there are advantages and disadvantages with both autofocus and manual focus. But with a still-life subject using Liveview, you will get the best focus manually if you zoom in the display so you can judge spot you want to be focused on.

Thank you for your thoughtful response of information. I will note the reference to the Z50 camera for a possible future upgrade.

Do you know if any of my lenses from the D3400 would fit/work with a Z50?

 

[BF Hammer]

Thank you for your thoughtful response of information. I will note the reference to the Z50 camera for a possible future upgrade.

Do you know if any of my lenses from the D3400 would fit/work with a Z50?

It's a different lens mount. They will work with the Nikon FTZ adapter in-between.

 

[GatineauRoss]

Thank you.

 

[Clovishound]

I haven't really tried much macro with the D3400, but my experience with other cameras leads me to believe that using AF with a static subject like mushrooms is doable. The main issue, IMO, is it may difficult to get focus where you want it. You can use a single point focus mode and move that point to where you want focus, but, for me, that is an awkward situation. Manual focus is the technique of choice for many macro shooters. It's what I use most of the time. Try different methods and see what works for you. It's not a one size fits all.

Given your subject, you might want to look into a focusing rail. They attach to your tripod head and give you the ability to rack the camera back and forth very precisely. You do an initial coarse focus using the focusing ring of the camera, and then fine tune with the geared rail which moves the camera closer or farther away from the subject. This might be a great piece of gear for focus stacking, since the D3400 doesn't support it in camera. When I am shooting insects handheld, I coarse focus, then just rock back and forth as needed until I have the focus point where I want it. This is the same principal as the focusing rail, without the precision. Of course with handheld macro, you have to shoot lots of images and pick the sharp ones out. You aren't going to nail focus every time, like you do with static subjects.

I have been using AF more often for macro since I got my Z8 last year. The AF on it is very good, and with some subjects, I get a higher percentage of sharp images, as well as being easier to manage. I was unable to do that with my previous cameras, as the AF just wasn't up to it. Keep in mind, I am in my 70s, so I'm not as stable as I was 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[GatineauRoss]

After organizing all the valuable information from your replies. This has led to some further questions on the macro photography process.

On the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens, for manual focus does the Focus Limit Switch setting matter? Which setting should I use for manual focus?

On the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens, for auto focus which Focus Limit Switch setting should I use? Presumably I would use FULL – select this option for subject closer than 0.2 m (0.7 ft.)

Does using Auto Focus preclude the use of focus stacking?

 

[Clovishound]

The focus limiting is to keep the lens from "hunting" the full length of focus while in AF. Set it to full.

Focus stacking relies on a number of different images taken of the same subject while progressively advancing the focus point with overlapping depth of field. You then take the images and load them into a program that will stack, such as Photoshop. The program picks out the in focus bits and seamlessly (well usually) assembles them into a final image with much greater DOF than any of the individual images.

It doesn't matter the mechanism you use to get the individual images, as long as the focus overlaps sufficiently, and you don't have any major changes in composition. Many of the newer cameras have a focus stacking feature that will automatically take a certain number of images while advancing the focus point from near to far. When using this feature you must be in AF mode. While it may be possible to produce a manual focus stack with AF, it would be completely impractical IMO.

I actually do focus stacks manually, and handheld. I just pick a starting point, focus on that, take a shot and then progressively move my focus farther aft until I have covered the area I want in focus. I will sometimes then "back" my way out, taking a similar number of images in case something didn't go as planned in the first string. If need be, I can exclude images that cause issues, as long as I have sufficient coverage with other images.

It's actually a rather straightforward operation. The biggest issue is figuring out how much overlap you need. That will depend on your amount of magnification, and aperture. Lots of folks using the in camera feature will take a crazy amount of images. Sometimes they use as many as 100. I normally use around 6-15, although I normally use small apertures for greater DOF. This greatly reduces the number of images I need, but also can affect the look of the background.

Here is an example. The first image is a single shot. The second is a focus stack. I don't remember how many images I stacked, but I doubt it was over 10 and may have been as few as 3-5. Notice how the entire crab spider, as well as the majority of the plant is in focus in the second image.

 

[GatineauRoss]

The focus limiting is to keep the lens from "hunting" the full length of focus while in AF. Set it to full.

Focus stacking relies on a number of different images taken of the same subject while progressively advancing the focus point with overlapping depth of field. You then take the images and load them into a program that will stack, such as Photoshop. The program picks out the in focus bits and seamlessly (well usually) assembles them into a final image with much greater DOF than any of the individual images.

It doesn't matter the mechanism you use to get the individual images, as long as the focus overlaps sufficiently, and you don't have any major changes in composition. Many of the newer cameras have a focus stacking feature that will automatically take a certain number of images while advancing the focus point from near to far. When using this feature you must be in AF mode. While it may be possible to produce a manual focus stack with AF, it would be completely impractical IMO.

I actually do focus stacks manually, and handheld. I just pick a starting point, focus on that, take a shot and then progressively move my focus farther aft until I have covered the area I want in focus. I will sometimes then "back" my way out, taking a similar number of images in case something didn't go as planned in the first string. If need be, I can exclude images that cause issues, as long as I have sufficient coverage with other images.

It's actually a rather straightforward operation. The biggest issue is figuring out how much overlap you need. That will depend on your amount of magnification, and aperture. Lots of folks using the in camera feature will take a crazy amount of images. Sometimes they use as many as 100. I normally use around 6-15, although I normally use small apertures for greater DOF. This greatly reduces the number of images I need, but also can affect the look of the background.

Here is an example. The first image is a single shot. The second is a focus stack. I don't remember how many images I stacked, but I doubt it was over 10 and may have been as few as 3-5. Notice how the entire crab spider, as well as the majority of the plant is in focus in the second image.

View attachment 424975

View attachment 424974

Is the Focus Limit Switch operable in manual focus? If so do I set it to FULL as well?

Thank you for the description on focus stacking. I have used this technique in the past using my AF-P DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR before I purchased the Nikon AF-S DX Micro NIKKOR 40mm f/2.8G lens this past November. Now waiting for the snow to melt and for the mushrooms to emerge so I can try out my new (to me) micro lens in the field.

I have signed up for a couple of workshops on macro photography at a couple of local photography clubs. I plan on following this up with workshops on Adobe Lightroom; Adobe Photoshop; and Focus Stacking. Should keep me busy for awhile

 

[Clovishound]

I have no idea whether the focus limit switch does anything when you are in manual focus mode (I suspect not), but I would advise to keep it at full.

I usually switch to birds in the winter, but there are still lots of subjects to be had in the winter. I've seen some stunning shots of frost on dead leaves, to name just one idea. If you look on Youtube, you will see lots of videos with ideas for winter macro shooting.

My daughter and I joined a local nature photography group about 2 years ago. It has been a fantastic resource. They have many very good presentations at the meetings during the year on a variety of subjects related to nature/wildlife photography. They also have a monthly outing, which has given us information on great places to go shoot.

 

[BF Hammer]

Focus limiter is there to restrain autofocus to a specific range so it will not hunt as much. Just turn it off when working on manual focus and don't worry about it.