Camera Market
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AC016
Senior Member
I have a feeling that Samsung is pulling out of the market. Their whole display was taken down at B&H and there are some tidbits on the internet that indicate that they are done with cameras. Time will tell i guess. I would not want to be the owner of a Samsung camera at this moment, not knowing if i could have it serviced down the road. Keep in mind that many camera brands are just one segment of a much bigger corporation. As we all know, Nikon & Canon make more then just cameras. Sony makes the bulk of its profits off of life insurance and Fuji has all sorts of companies under it's umbrella. Therefore, if someone like Samsung stops making cameras, it's but a little blip on their radar. They make so many other products. They are not "camera companies", they are but a piece of the pie of larger corporations.
Sorry. I had Taco Bell for dinner.:beguiled:
Danno_RIP
Senior Member
I think that mirrorless will be here eventually. There is a reason that Nikon and Canon have not made the move yet. You know there is a bean counter somewhere doing a cost/benefit analysis on mirrorless vs. DSLR. It is not enough to develop the tech, you have to know folks will be willing to pay for it at a level that will assure profit.
I know when I did market research I looked at what people liked, what people wanted and what they were willing to pay for... pretty broad spread between these three... especially between "want" and "pay for".
You gotta believe that the there is a bunch of people looking at the DSLR market and trying to gage what it would take X'1000s of consumers to change platforms. Market share and margin is what drives the bus. When they get the tech reliable at a cost effective price to assure the quality people not only desire, but are getting you will see someone stick their toe in the water.
I know when I did market research I looked at what people liked, what people wanted and what they were willing to pay for... pretty broad spread between these three... especially between "want" and "pay for".
You gotta believe that the there is a bunch of people looking at the DSLR market and trying to gage what it would take X'1000s of consumers to change platforms. Market share and margin is what drives the bus. When they get the tech reliable at a cost effective price to assure the quality people not only desire, but are getting you will see someone stick their toe in the water.
AC016
Senior Member
I think mirrorless is here already; but as you say, not with Nikon or Canon. Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic had a huge advantage over Nikon and Canon when they started to go mirrorless. That advantage was the fact that neither one of them had huge DSLR markets that they could not afford to ignore. Personally, i think Nikon & Canon should stick to doing what they know and let everyone else do mirrorless. I really can't see either one of them bring out something that would blow away any of the cameras that Fuji, Sony or Oly have at the moment.
Danno_RIP
Senior Member
And that is why we all have opinions... The joy of being able to choose to agree or disagree. Who knows, you may be right, only the future will tell... glad I got a seat to watch it unfold. Should be interesting. I have to admit it has been so far...
AC016
Senior Member
It certainly will be interesting. If Nikon were to come out with a true APS-C, interchangeable lens, mirrorless camera, i will certainly root for them. I'm just wondering if they would make a new line of lenses or not. Could that be something they are hung up on?
What made me come back to Nikon from Canon was their commitment for the F mount (Canon abandoned the FD lens owners). So as much as I wish for a Nikon mirrorless, mainly for less vibrations at low shutter speeds and lighter bodies, I certainly hope they keep the lens mount-sensor distance the same, allowing existing lenses to be used on newer bodies WITHOUT adapters.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
I'm certainly no lens expert but I'm thinking an APS-C mirrorless body would require a new line of lenses to match even if the new mirrorless body used the standard F-mount. I say that because of there's going to be a drastic difference in distance between the rear-most lens element and the sensor for the two different bodies. Now, if I'm not mistaken (and I certainly could be) that's a pretty big issue, but as I said, I'm no lens expert. Nor have I ever played one on TV.
AC016
Senior Member
And here i was thinking i saw you on Ken Rockwell TV talking about lenses, lol
Yeah, as Mike said, they could always make the body thicker so as to take on the current line of Nikon lenses. That, or they could come up with a brand new line of lenses and then make an adapter to adapt all the other Nikon glass. I would say that is a big decision to make, perhaps one that is holding them back. I would rather see them come up with a new line of lenses in order to take advantage of getting closer to the sensor with the light. In regards to the adapter, they can make one that will keep all the auto controls of today's Nikon lenses.
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Which sounds good on paper but a big selling point of the mirrorless format is the compact form factor. Taking that out of the equation of your new line of mirrorless cameras in an ocean of competition that doesn't have to seems dodgy to me at best even when you can pitch the idea of using all that pre-existing Nikon glass. I suppose Nikon could promote the "fat is in" concept ("It's a FEATURE!") but I'm dubious the idea would fly. Also, I'm sure Nikon has wondered, assuming you were able to use your existing Nikon (and third party F-mount) glass, just how much new, mirrorless-format glass you *won't* be buying? Ouch! Because I'll bet you dollars to donuts Nikon is very much going to want you to buy new mirrorless format glass. And any of this, of course, assumes there is not some other engineering issue(s) that we're not aware of when it comes to putting a mirrorless camera in a DSLR body. As they say, the devil is in the details.
.....
Now that sounds far more plausible. But again, it would have to be weighed against the new mirrorless format glass you won't be buying if this converter becomes a viable option. Third-party converters would almost be a certainty, though, assuming they proved feasible.
Exactly what I meant Mike. Wether it's an extension tube or not I "wish" they keep the distance the same so we can use all existing lenses. Other companies do have what they call "adapter" which are in reality extension tubes just to match the Nikon lenses pre-determined focal plane to sensor distance to allow infinity focusing.Not if you made the body as thick as a DSLR
AC016
Senior Member
Either way you slice it, they will lose a percentage of lens sales, all mirrorless brands do. I just bought a Canon 50mm F1.8 FDn and an adapter. That's money right out of Fuji's pocket. Even if Nikon did not make a mount, there are numerous companies out there that can make one. Nikon is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to mirrorless. They either make one that eats into their DSLR segment or they make one that sucks and leaves them wondering why they spent all that money on R&D and production. Companies like Fuji and Olympus don't have to worry about such things. They don't have another camera line within their own company to compete with. When Fuji came out with their X series, the S pro cameras were done with and they only had compacts and MF film cameras in their line up. This is why i think that we won't see Nikon come out with something like the X-T1 or the Oly. Just my prediction.
With owning the V2 and using the FT-1 adapter from nikon i dont share all your distaste for the idea,my only dislike is with the system i have some of the shall we say fancy facility's of the V2 are not available,i wonder if the new E range of lenses are designed to over come this.
To me, mirrorless cameras are just point-and-shoot cameras with delusions of grandeur.
But just like any other "weird" newfangled technology, like that "iphone" gadget, it has a fair chance of catching on and becoming mainstream.
And there's the rub: Even today, the DSLR is not really a mainstream item. It is ALWAYS associated with someone whose interest level is beyond simply taking a few pics of the family at special occasions.
I can't recall having read the statistics on it but these days I'll wager that most pictures that are made are made via smartphone. Which, although convenient, is hardly a tool that is taken seriously by anyone who even thinks of himself as a hobbyist or amateur photographer.
I could be wrong, but I do not see mirrorless cameras as taking the place of the DSLR, except perhaps the lower end of the range, unless the mirrorless camera evolves to become a fully professional photographic instrument with the same versatility and range of capabilities. Chief of which would be to have a full range of interchangeable lenses to suit the needs of the moment, and coupled with high resolution, a broad ISO range, and, particularly for sports photography, the ability to take many pictures very rapidly.
For mirrorless to replace the DSLR, it will have to BECOME the DSLR, in every way that really matters.
Shooting in live view mode with a D810 practically makes the mirrorless camera an afterthought. If the DSLR still had an image in the viewfinder via a small but excellent display stuffed in there, one that closely replicates the view of the viewfinder optics, and got rid of the mirror, then that WOULD be the mirrorless camera that would take over the top end of the market.
Eventually, though, some inventors and engineers are going to create an image sensor that can be run full time in full exposure to light, with no need at all for a shutter and no limitations on performance because of it.
That, I think, will be MORE revolutionary to the photography industry than the invention of the mirrorless camera. In particular, it will be an incredible tool for sports photographers because it could constantly be capturing frames in a rolling buffer and the act of pressing the release button would allow you to capture not just this moment, but one you just missed, too. Time machine mode.
But just like any other "weird" newfangled technology, like that "iphone" gadget, it has a fair chance of catching on and becoming mainstream.
And there's the rub: Even today, the DSLR is not really a mainstream item. It is ALWAYS associated with someone whose interest level is beyond simply taking a few pics of the family at special occasions.
I can't recall having read the statistics on it but these days I'll wager that most pictures that are made are made via smartphone. Which, although convenient, is hardly a tool that is taken seriously by anyone who even thinks of himself as a hobbyist or amateur photographer.
I could be wrong, but I do not see mirrorless cameras as taking the place of the DSLR, except perhaps the lower end of the range, unless the mirrorless camera evolves to become a fully professional photographic instrument with the same versatility and range of capabilities. Chief of which would be to have a full range of interchangeable lenses to suit the needs of the moment, and coupled with high resolution, a broad ISO range, and, particularly for sports photography, the ability to take many pictures very rapidly.
For mirrorless to replace the DSLR, it will have to BECOME the DSLR, in every way that really matters.
Shooting in live view mode with a D810 practically makes the mirrorless camera an afterthought. If the DSLR still had an image in the viewfinder via a small but excellent display stuffed in there, one that closely replicates the view of the viewfinder optics, and got rid of the mirror, then that WOULD be the mirrorless camera that would take over the top end of the market.
Eventually, though, some inventors and engineers are going to create an image sensor that can be run full time in full exposure to light, with no need at all for a shutter and no limitations on performance because of it.
That, I think, will be MORE revolutionary to the photography industry than the invention of the mirrorless camera. In particular, it will be an incredible tool for sports photographers because it could constantly be capturing frames in a rolling buffer and the act of pressing the release button would allow you to capture not just this moment, but one you just missed, too. Time machine mode.
Yes, many, but it really depends on the tool you want to use. Both DSLR's and mirrorless systems have pluses and minuses. There were more pluses for me on the mirrorless side, so I went there.