BIF - D500 with the 200-500 lens

[BackdoorArts]

shot in manual, auto ISO set to 4000, these were shot at 1/2000 SS, adjusted in LR and noise removed, any advances of how these can be improved, there no where near as pin sharp as what ive seen.

First off, lovely bird. We don't get them over here. What is it?

For some reason the forum software isn't letting me display them any larger than the inset, but I can see that you're shooting wide open and that's the first thing I'd recommend changing as if a lens will be soft it's there, particular with big zooms. I shoot with the 500mm f5.6pf and it's pretty sharp across the board, but I still keep it at f7.1 because I can see a difference.

Next thing I'd recommend is moving beyond Lightroom for post-processing. I've used just about everything but I ran into a guy while shooting a pair of bald eagles near my mom in Florida and he turned me on to Topaz Adjust AI (which subsequently led me to Topaz Denoise AI). It's fundamentally changed the way I post-process wildlife shots. Adjust has a section much like the Basic tab in the Lightroom Develop module and honestly I've found that to be useless. But it has Clarity and Detail sections that are effectively very focused breakdowns of the Texture and Clarity sliders in Lightroom/Camera Raw that allow you to focus how those are applied, and then a sharpening slider that seems to have built in intelligent masking. It's easy to overdo it at first but after you figure out how each slider impacts the image it's easy to hone in on a beautifully sharp image. Nice thing about them is that you can download fully functional 30-day trial versions, so when you're ready to try them you can do it without buying.

 

[DaveNewman]

i use the denoise topaz at present on a 30day, i have 3 days left, found denoising from there is excellent, but thats all i use.

the bird is a RED KITE (in the UK) stunning birds and fly so low, they dont care about us humans...

my lens was found to be at its sharpest at 6.3, granted, i shot it 5.6, so that can easily be changed....

would upper the shutter speed then?? as i was shooting in the sky my exposure comp was i think 2.3 or 2.7

 

[hark]

For some reason the forum software isn't letting me display them any larger than the inset...

@DaveNewman I hope it's okay that I reposted your images to make them larger for forum members to view. Hopefully it will allow them see any issues with shutter speed.

 

[DaveNewman]

not at all, no worries... i jsut think i needed to up my SS speed for these... also, the images straight off the camera into LR, if you zoomed in, they were noisey (topaz helped that though)

 

[hark]

not at all, no worries... i jsut think i needed to up my SS speed for these... also, the images straight off the camera into LR, if you zoomed in, they were noisey (topaz helped that though)

I'm surprised they were that noisy straight out of camera. Your ISO certainly is low enough for both images.

 

[DaveNewman]

I'm surprised they were that noisy straight out of camera. Your ISO certainly is low enough for both images.

i cropped it 1st, then zoomed in (maybe thats why?)

 

[hark]

i cropped it 1st, then zoomed in (maybe thats why?)

That might display more noticeable noise (larger splotches) - so it's definitely possibly. I've been running into a problem after testing out 2 teleconverters. Now when I take any images, they are slightly blurred. I don't have Topaz yet, but what I've found helps is using Shake Reduction in Photoshop. It does require keeping an eye on artifacting - and usually I move my artifacting slider to around 55 or 57. Coincidentally Jake/BackdoorArts is the one who clued me into that a few years back.

 

[DaveNewman]

i know i have the gear to produce the sharp, crisp photos i see on flickr or on here, i know it gets bloody frustrating, its all a learning curve, so im grateful for all advice

 

[BackdoorArts]

i use the denoise topaz at present on a 30day, i have 3 days left, found denoising from there is excellent, but thats all i use.

the bird is a RED KITE (in the UK) stunning birds and fly so low, they dont care about us humans...

my lens was found to be at its sharpest at 6.3, granted, i shot it 5.6, so that can easily be changed....

would upper the shutter speed then?? as i was shooting in the sky my exposure comp was i think 2.3 or 2.7

The difference between 1/1600 and 1/2000 gets me about an additional 30% in terms of usable sharpness for a shot like this. From 1/2000 to 1/2500 is an additional 30%. The farther away the bird is the more it seems to make a difference, though that seems counter intuitive. As you crop in you really see where you just missed moreso than when it fills the frame.

Topaz makes a big deal about how well Denoise sharpens, and it does do that. But if you want real details Adjust is amazing.

 

[DaveNewman]

just cant justify the cost for 1 small little section of topaz......

 

[BackdoorArts]

just cant justify the cost for 1 small little section of topaz......

And I totally get that. For anyone who shoots only for themselves it's likely a luxury. I repeat myself not to twist an arm but to plant a seed for the time when you might be ready to think otherwise. When I started out shooting wildlife I used to run into guys out there with these long, expensive prime lenses who would show me their spectacularly sharp photos, and I would say to myself, "Yeah, but for what I'm doing to have to spend $X,XXX to $YY,YYY isn't justifiable." 7 years later 95% of my wildlife shooting is done with a pair of primes. That I've gone through that process makes a piece of software that takes the images coming out of those lenses up a notch and costs about as much as dinner out is easily justifiable, particularly when I consider that selling 2 or 3 prints of a fox I shot this week will repay me for most of what I've ever spent on Topaz.

 

[Woodyg3]

How much did you crop? If the subject was very small in the viewfinder, it can be quite a challenge for even the D500 autofocus system to get a good lock. I suspect some subject or camera movement blur, maybe some lens defraction since the subject is quite backlit, and slightly missed focus.

 

[DaveNewman]

lens is brand new, all calibrated to my camera, bang sharp at 6.3, everything with it is fine, so thats all good...

i always try and get the subject as close to the camera as possible and fill the view finder. these images have been altered in LR before posting here, so they in theory arent the originals.

i started on 153 but really didnt get on with it, so moved back to group

 

[DaveNewman]

Help here then lads, this is STRAIGHT off the camera, RAW file, not touched in LR or anything (not even cropped). Advice appreciated, this is also shot in S (SHUTTER MODE) on the D500 with the 200-500 lens

 

[Andy W]

For those shots I would have started with manual mode, 1/1600, f8 and whatever iso needed and checked results.

 

[DaveNewman]

For those shots I would have started with manual mode, 1/1600, f8 and whatever iso needed and checked results.

this is where i get told so many different things.......

in the week a canon pro said to me, 95% canon shooters for BIF use TV MODE, which is my book for the D500 is S mode (so i tested it last night, hence those pics) the pigeon was shifting fairly quick, even so not much flapping....

tonight ill swap to M mode and go from there.

i DO NOT use manual ISO though (im not that advanced) i use AUTO ISO which is currently set to a max of 2000 and im adjusting the exp comp

 

[hark]

i DO NOT use manual ISO though (im not that advanced) i use AUTO ISO which is currently set to a max of 2000 and im adjusting the exp comp

If you cap your ISO that low, most likely there will be situations where you reach the limits of the settings. For example, it sounds like you are in shutter priority with ISO capped at 2000. That means your aperture would be the remaining variable that will change. You can't go any wider than f/5.6 with that lens so for some lower lit shots, your images will start to be underexposed. And that's because the +/- button won't help if you max out your settings (camera can only go so high for shutter speed and only so wide for aperture).

Do you have a Dropbox account? If so, would you be willing to upload a NEF for others to play with? Many of us have different software and different levels of editing skills. Maybe we can find an editing workflow to help.

 

[Chris@sabor]

First, I would say that more practice is more important than too much fiddling with camera settings. Meaning you will be fine with "S", shutter priority. The only thing I don't like about it is it will always try to leave your camera "wide open" in terms of F stop. Sometimes I want more depth of field and perhaps better sharpness (on some lenses) by stopping down a bit.

In my opinion, manual mode is no more complicated than "A" or "S" mode. It just utilizes both dials to adjust shutter speed and F stop. It's easy to leave the F stop wide open or, with a couple click of the dial, stop down. I use auto ISO also and would recommend setting the limit a little higher.

The D500 is very capable but, it takes practice and learning to get the most out of it. I have been shooting it nearly everyday for 3 years in manual mode and I'm still learning how to get better images with it.

 

[DaveNewman]

Steve Perry did make a comment to be that 4000 ISO is where we would highly recommend to put this setup too.... who is to argue with him i guess... ill swap it back, easily done...

practice, i 100% agree, but i do like to get peoples opinion, with other ideas to try, doesnt take me long to change back.

its only BIF i cant get the best sharp images from, static subjects i use A mode and (for me) getting some excellent photos, which im happy with.

 

[BackdoorArts]

Mentioned it previously - a big zoom wide open is soft. With the shutter speeds we're using Manual Mode with Auto ISO is no different than Shutter Priority with Auto ISO except that YOU get to choose your aperture instead of having the camera shoot wide open all the time to minimize ISO. Crank it to f7.1 or f8 and it'll sharpen up. My D500's almost never leave Manual mode because with Auto ISO it's really not "manual".