Advice please upgrade for birds

[JimL]

Hello - this is my first post. Intermediate / advanced beginner level.

Advice please - i want to upgrade current equipment for bird photography. Birds often distant and in flight. Often requires walking several miles in rough terrain and all weathers.

Currently I have d780 and 200-500 mm nikkor lens. I am also have 1.4 TCE iii teleconvertor and have used this.

I am happy with image quality. I have experimented with AF settings and find it ok with practice, but often miss focus.

I work handheld.

I want to stick with dslr - although may move to mirrorless in futures.

Budget - don’t want to go much over £2000 after any trade ins.

My main issue is the weigh and bulk of this set up. Second issue relatively slow af.

Considering mainly 2 options :

1 stay with d780 and get 500 pf lens

2 buy good used d500 and use with 300 pf and 1.4 TC - (lens cheaper, smaller, lighter - money saved on 500 pf goes towards new body?)

Or various other permutations ….

I’d be very grateful for your thoughts.

 

[JimL]

Well I’ve order a good condition 500 mm pf now. In the end I thought that whatever the weight saving of the 300 mm, I would end up frustrated by lack of reach even with the converter. I’ve always thought the argument that you get more reach with DX crop sensor is rather spurious.

Anyway I thought at some point I had to take the plunge. I will try the 500 mm pf with the D780. Will sell the 200-500. I hardly ever used it except at 500 anyway.

Once I have some experience with this I will think about maybe a different body. I don’t make much use of the live view mode on the d780.

 

[JimL]

Hopefully someone can reassure me that I have made the right decision….

 

[nikonpup]

See "Woodyg3" thread. D500 with 500mm.

Look into "Cotton Carrier" for a camera and a long lens carrying system.
I used this system with D750 and Tamron 150-600mm.

 

[JimL]

Thanks nikonpuo.

Sorry I’m new to this forum - how do I find the thread you are referring to?

The cotton carrier looks very good. Logically it seems like a good solution. For some illogical reason I don’t like the look of this type of carrier, and can’t really see me using it. But that may be some kind of daft prejudice on my part …

 

[Marilynne]

@Woodyg3

Any advice for Jim?

 

[BF Hammer]

Hopefully someone can reassure me that I have made the right decision….

It makes sense. Really you would be looking at a D850 as the upgrade and still be using optical viewfinder. D500 if you want the crop in-camera instead of in-post. There will not be any newer options. Your biggest limitation is the 24MP sensor of the D780, which limits the amount of crop you may want to do. But you pay a price in weight and size if you want better.

Falling back to the original stated goals of lighter and smaller: Pay attention to OM Systems Micro Four-Thirds. They are playing catch-up with autofocus performance in new bodies like the OM-3. Your lens of choice would be 300mm and it carries with 2/3 the weight and bulk as your DSLR. With that you have 600mm full-frame equivalent in the crop in a 20MP sensor. Just throwing that out there as people forget about that option since mirrorless full-frame started getting all the attention. Micro Four-Thirds was mirrorless before there was mirrorless.

 

[nikonpup]

Thanks nikonpuo.

Sorry I’m new to this forum - how do I find the thread you are referring to?

The cotton carrier looks very good. Logically it seems like a good solution. For some illogical reason I don’t like the look of this type of carrier, and can’t really see me using it. But that may be some kind of daft prejudice on my part …

Use the search function.

Woody's Hermosa Luz 2026

 

[JimL]

It makes sense. Really you would be looking at a D850 as the upgrade and still be using optical viewfinder. D500 if you want the crop in-camera instead of in-post. There will not be any newer options. Your biggest limitation is the 24MP sensor of the D780, which limits the amount of crop you may want to do. But you pay a price in weight and size if you want better.

Falling back to the original stated goals of lighter and smaller: Pay attention to OM Systems Micro Four-Thirds. They are playing catch-up with autofocus performance in new bodies like the OM-3. Your lens of choice would be 300mm and it carries with 2/3 the weight and bulk as your DSLR. With that you have 600mm full-frame equivalent in the crop in a 20MP sensor. Just throwing that out there as people forget about that option since mirrorless full-frame started getting all the attention. Micro Four-Thirds was mirrorless before there was mirrorless.

Thanks BF,
Yes I did consider the Sony RX10 Iv, although I’m not sure why they have been discontinued? I was with a friend out in the moors one day (northern England) and we saw a Golden Eagle - a very rare sight for us - he was able to capture some great video. Not the best quality, but great for evidence as I think we might not have been believed. I had left my camera behind as it was too heavy with all other other gear I was carrying …. Must be a lesson there!

But now I’ve ordered the 500 mm of I’ve rather committed myself to that route now …

 

[JimL]

I want to say above that my friend had his Sony - in case that wasn’t clear.

 

[Woodyg3]

I'm late to the thread, but I'll reassure you the the 500PF is a huge upgrade. You will love the 500 PF, it's very sharp, light, and focuses fast. I found that when I got the 500PF after using the 200-500 for a couple of years that the improved performance was very significant. I don't know much about the D780s AF system, but a D 500 or D850 would be the logical future upgrade if you want to stick with DSLSs. I'm still sticking with my trusty old D500s (I have three bodies) and probably will for quite a while. I'd like to go mirrorless at some point, but the cost... well, you know.

Enjoy the new lens!

 

[JimL]

I'm late to the thread, but I'll reassure you the the 500PF is a huge upgrade. You will love the 500 PF, it's very sharp, light, and focuses fast. I found that when I got the 500PF after using the 200-500 for a couple of years that the improved performance was very significant. I don't know much about the D780s AF system, but a D 500 or D850 would be the logical future upgrade if you want to stick with DSLSs. I'm still sticking with my trusty old D500s (I have three bodies) and probably will for quite a while. I'd like to go mirrorless at some point, but the cost... well, you know.

Enjoy the new lens!

Thanks Woody - that’s nice and reassuring. The lens has arrived at home, although I am away for a week. I’ll try it for a while with the d780. I’m definitely thinking of trading for a d500. There are pros and cons from what I read, but I have never really used the video/mirrorless aspects of the d780 much anyway, so I don’t think I will miss them.

Just wondering do you notice issues in low light with the d500 / 500 pf? I understand the d780 would perform better in those conditions due to larger physical pixel size. Not sure though whether this is an issue in real life?

 

[hark]

I tried the Nikon 200-500mm zoom but found it to be too heavy. So I simply use my D500 with my 300mm PF and a 1.4x TC. That makes it a constant f/5.6 aperture and autofocuses reasonably fast. I believe the combo yields a field of view of 440mm. The photos are sharp, and the combo is certainly light enough to handhold.

I remember Jake (BackdoorArts) had both the 300mm PF with 1.4x TC and the 500mm PF. He was happy with the 300mm PF and 1.4x TC. But once he acquired the 500mm, that became his go-to wildlife lens.

Using the Nikon 200-500mm with a 1.4x TC is going to slow down your autofocus A LOT. And like you mentioned, it is quite heavy to carry out in the field and when handholding.

 

[JimL]

I tried the Nikon 200-500mm zoom but found it to be too heavy. So I simply use my D500 with my 300mm PF and a 1.4x TC. That makes it a constant f/5.6 aperture and autofocuses reasonably fast. I believe the combo yields a field of view of 440mm. The photos are sharp, and the combo is certainly light enough to handhold.

I remember Jake (BackdoorArts) had both the 300mm PF with 1.4x TC and the 500mm PF. He was happy with the 300mm PF and 1.4x TC. But once he acquired the 500mm, that became his go-to wildlife lens.

Using the Nikon 200-500mm with a 1.4x TC is going to slow down your autofocus A LOT. And like you mentioned, it is quite heavy to carry out in the field and when handholding.

Thanks Hark,
I can see me possibly swapping my d780 for d500 then maybe in addition to the 500 pf using a dx18-300 for more general use or if space and weight is really an issue (I know can’t use convert with dx lens)

 

[Woodyg3]

Thanks Woody - that’s nice and reassuring. The lens has arrived at home, although I am away for a week. I’ll try it for a while with the d780. I’m definitely thinking of trading for a d500. There are pros and cons from what I read, but I have never really used the video/mirrorless aspects of the d780 much anyway, so I don’t think I will miss them.

Just wondering do you notice issues in low light with the d500 / 500 pf? I understand the d780 would perform better in those conditions due to larger physical pixel size. Not sure though whether this is an issue in real life?

I shoot owls in very low light and even at 12800 ISO I can usually get good results using Lightroom's Denise feature. I don't have a D780 to compare it to, of course. The image stabilization of the 500 PF will help you to be able to use slower shutter speeds, so for static subjects you will get more opportunities to use a lower ISO setting.

 

[JimL]

I shoot owls in very low light and even at 12800 ISO I can usually get good results using Lightroom's Denise feature. I don't have a D780 to compare it to, of course. The image stabilization of the 500 PF will help you to be able to use slower shutter speeds, so for static subjects you will get more opportunities to use a lower ISO setting.

Thanks Woody - that’s very encouraging.

 

[Clovishound]

I don't have any specific recommendations for you, but I will give a little info about my journey into bird and BIF photography over the last couple of years.

Over the last five years I have owned 4 digital Nikon cameras. My philosophy is that it is the photographer, not the camera, that really makes the difference. Having said that, bird and BIF photography is much more heavily dependent on the gear than other genres. My initial upgrade was from an entry level DSLR to a mid level mirrorless. This was a smart move for me, as the Z5 controls and layout suited my style much better. I was a little disappointed that going from a 24MP crop frame to a 24MP full frame did not result in a particularly noticeable upgrade in resolution.

I purchased the 200-500 with an FTZ adapter, since there were no affordable long teles available at the time for Z mount. I was very happy with both camera and lens for a while. I was lured into upgrading to the Z7ii by the high resolution sensor. This was a mistake on my part. The Z7ii is an excellent camera in most respects, but the AF was lacking for the use I was mainly putting it to. I do love the high rez sensor, as it allows me to crop without fear, which helps a lot with long distance shots, and some of my macro images. I was fortunate enough to have a windfall last year, and purchased the Z8. The AF functions for this camera are head and shoulders above any of my previous cameras, and the 20 fps and pre release capture are a definite asset to BIF photography.

At Christmas time last year I took the family offer of adding some Christmas present for me money to make my purchase of a Z mount long tele. I thought long and hard between the Z600pf and the 180-600. I ended up with the 180-600 because of the flexibility of a zoom, and the much closer focusing of the zoom. I have been very happy with the 180-600, although it is not an extreme upgrade from the 200-500.

I realize not everyone has the disposable income to purchase the Z8, but it is a game changer, IMO, for this type of shooting. Several of the newer Z models have the Expeed7 processor, which allows for many of the sought after features not available on previous models. Mirrorless has a great many advantages over DSLR, but they both get the job done. Both the D500 and 500pf have a reputation for being excellent wildlife gear. I have seen a great many outstanding images taken with both the D500 and the 500pf. I have heard that the 500pf pairs well with mirrorless, if and when you decided to move to mirrorless.

 

[JimL]

I don't have any specific recommendations for you, but I will give a little info about my journey into bird and BIF photography over the last couple of years.

Over the last five years I have owned 4 digital Nikon cameras. My philosophy is that it is the photographer, not the camera, that really makes the difference. Having said that, bird and BIF photography is much more heavily dependent on the gear than other genres. My initial upgrade was from an entry level DSLR to a mid level mirrorless. This was a smart move for me, as the Z5 controls and layout suited my style much better. I was a little disappointed that going from a 24MP crop frame to a 24MP full frame did not result in a particularly noticeable upgrade in resolution.

I purchased the 200-500 with an FTZ adapter, since there were no affordable long teles available at the time for Z mount. I was very happy with both camera and lens for a while. I was lured into upgrading to the Z7ii by the high resolution sensor. This was a mistake on my part. The Z7ii is an excellent camera in most respects, but the AF was lacking for the use I was mainly putting it to. I do love the high rez sensor, as it allows me to crop without fear, which helps a lot with long distance shots, and some of my macro images. I was fortunate enough to have a windfall last year, and purchased the Z8. The AF functions for this camera are head and shoulders above any of my previous cameras, and the 20 fps and pre release capture are a definite asset to BIF photography.

At Christmas time last year I took the family offer of adding some Christmas present for me money to make my purchase of a Z mount long tele. I thought long and hard between the Z600pf and the 180-600. I ended up with the 180-600 because of the flexibility of a zoom, and the much closer focusing of the zoom. I have been very happy with the 180-600, although it is not an extreme upgrade from the 200-500.

I realize not everyone has the disposable income to purchase the Z8, but it is a game changer, IMO, for this type of shooting. Several of the newer Z models have the Expeed7 processor, which allows for many of the sought after features not available on previous models. Mirrorless has a great many advantages over DSLR, but they both get the job done. Both the D500 and 500pf have a reputation for being excellent wildlife gear. I have seen a great many outstanding images taken with both the D500 and the 500pf. I have heard that the 500pf pairs well with mirrorless, if and when you decided to move to mirrorless.

Thank you for sharing your journey.