A Prime 300 + Tele-converter on D610

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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
Suffering a little sticker shock at the prospect of a nice long lens. Upwards of a grand I fear to get one. Used maybe $700.

I was reading a bit more about primes and began to wonder if maybe I could satisfy me lust for a nice long lens for hunting birds by getting a descent, older 300mm prime and putting a 1.4x teleconverter on it. I see some on eBay for under $500 - some under $400. Teleconverters seem to range anywhere from $150 to $300.

Anybody use that kind of set up - any recommendations?

Am I on a wild goose chase (pun intended :eek: ) and should just make do with my old 100-300 Siggy and 70-210 Nikkor?

I'm not that avid of a bird shooter - so the idea of dropping a grand or anything close to a grand is not on my radar until I win the lottery. I'd just like to add that capacity to my camera bag of tricks.
 
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aroy

Senior Member
The 300mm both F4 and F2.8 go very well with the TC1.4 and TC 1.7, but the TC themselves are quite expensive.

Older 300mm Primes are slow to AF. The 300mm F4 itself is over a decade old product, and is still in demand, so getting it pre-owned at a low price is difficult. If you get one at less than $500, check it scrupulously. 300mm F2.8 are way too expensive, even the older MF ones.

The only saving grace is that even with TC 1.4 the 300mm F4 is much better than professional zooms as far as IQ and sharpness goes. So if you need good IQ for distant object, 300mm prime (or longer) is the way to go. Best course of action would be to start saving now, and very soon you may be able to afford getting one. (Even I am doing the same - saving for a new 300mm F4 + TC 1.4)
 
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mikew_RIP

Senior Member
Would never argue the quality of the Nikon and converter but looking at your lens line up i wonder if you would be like me,i would find a choice between two focal lengths and then only by adding or removing a converter just too restrictive in my picture taking situations,i tend to do my bird photography stalking in an area where i get very little advance warning of what the next subject will be.
 
Woodyg3

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
I use the Nikon 300mm f/4 and a 1.4 TC for my bird/wildlife photography. I don't know where you are looking, but I have never seen a way to get that set up for much under $1000, even used. It's a great set up, though, and I can get some very sharp shots and pretty quick autofocus with it.

I've got a Tamron 150-600 coming in the mail today. So, we'll see how the new super telezoom stacks up against the venerable prime 300 / 1.4x combo. :)
 
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mikew_RIP

Senior Member
Woodyg3 said:
I use the Nikon 300mm f/4 and a 1.4 TC for my bird/wildlife photography. I don't know where you are looking, but I have never seen a way to get that set up for much under $1000, even used. It's a great set up, though, and I can get some very sharp shots and pretty quick autofocus with it.

I've got a Tamron 150-600 coming in the mail today. So, we'll see how the new super telezoom stacks up against the venerable prime 300 / 1.4x combo. :)
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Nikon and converter had the edge for IQ but will be interested in the results,i could have got that kit for not much more than the tamron but i just love zooms
 
Marcel

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Woodyg3 said:
I use the Nikon 300mm f/4 and a 1.4 TC for my bird/wildlife photography. I don't know where you are looking, but I have never seen a way to get that set up for much under $1000, even used. It's a great set up, though, and I can get some very sharp shots and pretty quick autofocus with it.

I've got a Tamron 150-600 coming in the mail today. So, we'll see how the new super telezoom stacks up against the venerable prime 300 / 1.4x combo. :)
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If you do have time, I'd be very much interested to see a side by side comparison with 100% crops accompanying the original picture. :)
 
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LensWork

Senior Member
The only Nikon 300mm f/4 that is compatible with a Nikon "E" teleconverter is the current AF-S version (~$1,500 new), and I doubt that you will find a used AF-S 300mm f/4 for anywhere near $500 unless it is beat-to-hell.
 
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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
Thanks for the post Woody - your results will be of interest to at least a couple of us it seems.

Looking on eBay I find that I'm seeing Siggy's 170-500 for around the $600 - $800 mark and adding a Nikon Teleconverter to a 300mm Nikkor would be close - maybe just a little less but not much.

I have a mix of primes and zooms but have wondered about the upside of a zoom when bird hunting - any time I've tried that with my 70-210 or my siggy 100-300 I tend to max out the zoom anyway. Not been overly happy with the results. Maybe I'm blaming the lens for poor bird hunting technique?

one consideration, sometimes my bird hunting is being done in my inflatable zodiac style boat. Have not used a tripod on board (I suppose I could, it does have a sold aluminum floor). Could at least try my mono-pod.

Also stumbled across an older "Tamron AF 200-400 5.6 LD Lens" for under $200. Any thoughts on this lens? From what I've read it sounds like a poor man's zoom, not the easiest to use and has the push-pull focus thing (same as my Nikkor 70-210 which works for me). Images at Flickr taken with this zoom do look good. But I read that it takes lots of shots to get a good one? Other reviews recommend looking at the newer and longer Tamron 200-500 - which I did, twice the money and a bit more, but for $500ish one can be bought down by d'Bay. Another one in the running I guess.

With the new Siggy long zooms now released, maybe their last version 150-500 will drop in price - coming in around the $800-$900 or so on eBay.

BTW I do prefer buying used from a reputable camera shop rather than any old Ebay site, sometimes they sell their wares on eBay like Henry's of Canada or Roberts. Other times I buy direct from the camera shop. I've done business with KEH and look at them as a good supplier of used. Any others you recommend as good go to for lenses?


Time to save up for that lens.
And I'm saving for a DCC EMD too (too many expensive hobbies).
And Christmas is coming.
 
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aroy

Senior Member
The 300F4+TC1.4 beats practically all zooms at both 300mm and 420mm. For those who shoot birds at a distance even 400mm is less, so in my opinion a zoom is rarely required. The nearest to 300mm+TC is the Nikon 200-400 zoom, but it costs an arm and a leg.

The Sigma and Tamron zooms in the 500-600mm range are fine when the light is good (even then the IQ of primes beat them hollow), but you rarely see birds in bright light, so if you want to shoot birds (or any wild life in their environment) primes are the way to go.
 
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Deleted

Senior Member
Woodyg3 said:
I use the Nikon 300mm f/4 and a 1.4 TC for my bird/wildlife photography. I don't know where you are looking, but I have never seen a way to get that set up for much under $1000, even used. It's a great set up, though, and I can get some very sharp shots and pretty quick autofocus with it.

I've got a Tamron 150-600 coming in the mail today. So, we'll see how the new super telezoom stacks up against the venerable prime 300 / 1.4x combo. :)
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I'd be very interested in your impressions.
 
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mikew_RIP

Senior Member
One thing to consider with the prime and converter is the current version has no VR,may not be a problem most of the time but in poor light when you up the ISO to maintain a decent shutter speed,then need to crop to get the image size you can soon start to lose any IQ benefit you may have.
All these things are only tools and you need to give serious thought as to which will give you what you need,it seams i knock primes well i dont its just when i started 40 odd years ago nearly all zooms where crap and primes where the only option,the amount of shots i lost in those days because my hide was at a distance for one size bird and then a different size would come in to feed,the guy i used to go birding with was very wealthy and he bought the original nikon 50-300 which was way out of my price range,he got great pictures no matter what size subject came in.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
As has been warned, be very careful to consider TC/lens compatibility when you do this stuff. You'll always get the focal length addition, but you'll likely lose at least something (auto-focus, metering, etc.) and could lose all automation, while also potentially losing IQ. If you're shooting FX and toying with the idea of a 1.4-1.7TC it almost begs the question, why aren't you just considering a refurb D7100? It's a built-in 1.5X TC with none of the issues. :) I love my D610, but unless I'm sitting on my deck and the bird is too, I'm using my D7100 to shoot 'em.
 
Woodyg3

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
BackdoorHippie said:
If you're shooting FX and toying with the idea of a 1.4-1.7TC it almost begs the question, why aren't you just considering a refurb D7100? It's a built-in 1.5X TC with none of the issues. :) I love my D610, but unless I'm sitting on my deck and the bird is too, I'm using my D7100 to shoot 'em.
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A good point. Many of us who shoot wildlife, birds especially, like to use the DX camera for the narrower field of view. Heck, even then I have to crop most of my shots.
 
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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
Zoom vs Prime? Hmmmm. Closer examination of the items on offer is leading me towards the zoom option after all.

I'm finding a Sigma 170-500mm zoom is a lot less than that 150-500mm zoom (cf'd at KEH https://www.keh.com/search/list?s=nikon+500mm+&fl[]=150-500mm&fl[]=170-500mm $700-$750 vs $200-$300. Both are autofocus but the more expensive one includes OS (VR in Siggy speak). Less down by dBay but for more expensive options I want to go with a more reputable dealer (either directly or through their eBay store).

As I look more closely at the 300mm primes on offer most a manual focus. The F/4 version considerably more than the F/4.5. Plus Teleconverter.
It looks like I'd be further ahead with one of those zooms listed above, suffer a little IQ but off-set by the variable zoom factor that MikeW rightly points out is a very valuable asset.

And why don't I just buy a 7100 + FX zoom to 300, ...well for starters I just bought a D610 after debating for a long time about the D610 vs D7100 choice. I do have a D5100 which isn't the camera a D7100 is but still has that crop factor benefit.

For now, I should just learn to use what I have in my bag.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Fortkentdad said:
And why don't I just buy a 7100 + FX zoom to 300, ...well for starters I just bought a D610 after debating for a long time about the D610 vs D7100 choice. I do have a D5100 which isn't the camera a D7100 is but still has that crop factor benefit.
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Just so you know, my point is that it's extremely difficult to come us with a budget wildlife solution that isn't going to frustrate the heck out of you when you see the IQ of what's showing up on that wonderful D610 sensor. IMO shooting critters is one of the most demanding things from your glass, so when I see the camera you have and thing about a so-so long lens further compromised by a TC I feel obligated to scream loudly, "Don't compromise on the glass!!!". I have the 150-500mm, which is a better than decent lens, but sharpness is compromised at apertures below f8. I shot birds with it on my D800 for a year before giving up in frustration and buying the D7100 I should have gotten in the first place (see my thread from November 2012 about choosing between the two - and I chose wrong). That same lens with a TC will mean that for sharpness I need to shoot at an effecting f11-16 with the TC, so I'll be at ISO 1600-6400 in full daylight just to get the shutter speeds I need.

There are threads all over this forum about what bodies work well with wildlife and unless they're shooting with the D8xx and big, really expensive glass, most wildlife photographers are shooting DX. You've got a D5100? Great!! Use that, and save for a decent lens.
 
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