Nikon Capture NX2 & NEF editing?

[BackdoorArts]

Here's where you're losing it. A TIFF or PSD file contains 100% of the light data in each pixel that the RAW file contains. In NX2 you're not editing the RAW file, you're storing adjustments to the RAW file in a sidecar that is applied whenever the RAW file is accessed. No program actually updates a RAW file - ever.

Lightroom does the exact same thing. It stores it in the catalog or in a sidecar, but it does ALL edits non-destructively. If you invoke Nik from Lr, and do so with the preference set to use a Tiff file, all the light information gets sent to Nik so you can pull shadows and all the other stuff you can do to a RAW file. Same with a PSD, but not with a JPEG. So don't ever use JPEG. When the file returns to Lr from Nik it will create a new Tiff/PSD file and put it in your Lr catalog (there's an option to automatically stack it with the original). Any edits you then do in Lr will be non-destructive to that Tiff image (the adjustments are kept in the catalog). What you cannot do is go back into Nik and adjust those edits with the Nik filter - for that you need to use Photoshop. But outside of the adjustments within Nik, everything is non-destructive, you just have a new file that represents your progress. If you need to go back and change something, go back to that file and start again from there.

In Photoshop you can use Smart Layers/Objects so that whatever filter you use you can reinvoke it with the original settings and make adjustments after the fact. Beware, if you stack a bunch of filters all of them will be reapplied in order, so it can take a significant amount of time after returning to Ps to start working again.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Here's where you're losing it. A TIFF or PSD file contains 100% of the light data in each pixel that the RAW file contains. In NX2 you're not editing the RAW file, you're storing adjustments to the RAW file in a sidecar that is applied whenever the RAW file is accessed. No program actually updates a RAW file - ever.

Lightroom does the exact same thing. It stores it in the catalog or in a sidecar, but it does ALL edits non-destructively. If you invoke Nik from Lr, and do so with the preference set to use a Tiff file, all the light information gets sent to Nik so you can pull shadows and all the other stuff you can do to a RAW file. Same with a PSD, but not with a JPEG. So don't ever use JPEG. When the file returns to Lr from Nik it will create a new Tiff/PSD file and put it in your Lr catalog (there's an option to automatically stack it with the original). Any edits you then do in Lr will be non-destructive to that Tiff image (the adjustments are kept in the catalog). What you cannot do is go back into Nik and adjust those edits with the Nik filter - for that you need to use Photoshop. But outside of the adjustments within Nik, everything is non-destructive, you just have a new file that represents your progress. If you need to go back and change something, go back to that file and start again from there.

In Photoshop you can use Smart Layers/Objects so that whatever filter you use you can reinvoke it with the original settings and make adjustments after the fact. Beware, if you stack a bunch of filters all of them will be reapplied in order, so it can take a significant amount of time after returning to Ps to start working again.

Thanks, Jake... You're much better able to explain this than I.

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[BackdoorArts]

One more thing with your video. When you're opening in Ps and after you click Open Image you say, "All those adjustments are baked in", that's actually incorrect. Those adjustments are sitting in the XMP sidecar file. If you open the RAW file again in Photoshop it will open Camera Raw and apply the original adjustments from the sidecar file. You can now tweak them to your hearts content and then open the image into Photoshop again. What's confusing you is that once you're in Photoshop you're no longer dealing with a photograph (ie. the Raw image), you're dealing with a Photoshop document sourced from a photograph. It's more a graphic arts processor that works really well with photographs. Now, your starting place is still available, but once you've gone from Camera Raw to Photoshop you're now "photoshopping", something that cannot be saved with the Raw file. This is inherently different from Lightroom, which only utilizes the Camera Raw engine in the Develop module, and like Capture NX all those settings stay in the catalog forever so "years from now" when you open the photo again (you actually don't "open" a photo in Lr, you access it in the catalog and saves are automatic, unlike C-NX).

 

[BackdoorArts]

And again I should note, if you used Smart Objects in Photoshop you can go back and make adjustments.

 

[aroy]

Most of the RAW processors use a separate file (side car) to store the changes to a RAW file, and RAW file is not touched. The exception is View NX which applies the changes to the RAW file directly. The side car may be a separate file or may be incorporated into the RAW file it self (Capture NX 2).

I prefer a separate sidecar file as that enables me to use different RAW processors to see which one does the best job for a given situation. The problem with NX-2 type implementation is that the extra information will at times another RAW processor from opening the file.

 

[csgaraglino]

The point is, at that time your no longer working with "data" your noe working with "pixels"!

We spend thousands on cameras to get that data - only to then convert it to pixels before editing - it should only be done AFTER editing.

if you have never really got deep into editing data - you'll never understand what power you never took advantage of.

 

[BackdoorArts]

Most of the RAW processors use a separate file (side car) to store the changes to a RAW file, and RAW file is not touched. The exception is View NX which applies the changes to the RAW file directly. The side car may be a separate file or may be incorporated into the RAW file it self (Capture NX 2).

I prefer a separate sidecar file as that enables me to use different RAW processors to see which one does the best job for a given situation. The problem with NX-2 type implementation is that the extra information will at times another RAW processor from opening the file.

And here's where I have a huge problem with the way ViewNX2 works with the RAW file.

• ViewNX2 alters the source file by embedding edits into an internal extension in the file. There are contest sites that require an unaltered source original and unless you keep a full set of backups before you edit your files you've rendered the file ineligible as a confirmation source file at these sites.
• The edits applied to the source file can only be accessed by ViewNX2. Decide to switch to Lightroom? Lightroom will not recognize any ViewNX2 edits, and ViewNX2 will not export an .xmp sidecar file for you to access them. So you either need to start form scratch or export Tiff files from ViewNX2, but your hours of editing are lost. (Note: there may be a utility available somewhere that can recover this stuff, but I've been away from the s/w for such a long time that I'm not aware of one).
• As with above, if you want to simply open the NEF file in Photoshop or Elements you cannot do it directly from the file, and to my amazement, if you add Photoshop as a "registered app" that can be used to open the file directly from ViewNX2, it does not apply the ViewNX edit to the file sent to Photoshop. Seriously, all I get when I open from ViewNX is the original RAW file with no edits applied. (Note: as with above, maybe there are preference settings that alter this, but what a mess if it doesn't default to the assumption that you want to open. The only way I've found is to convert the file to a Tiff (which changes it from the now 41MB file to a 145MB file) and then open that in Photoshop.
• The storing of edits in the RAW file increases the size of the NEF file significantly. A D750 file that started as 30MB grew to 41MB with only a minor bump in exposure applied. That's crazy!! The same file with (literally) adjustments to every slider in Camera Raw, plus added Radial and Gradient filters, and crop information, yields a 12KB (that's Kilobyte, not Megabyte) .xmp sidecar file.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

View NX2 did NOT allow you to directly modify the raw file. It looked like that's what you were doing because the changes were stored in the .NEF header, not in a separate sidecar file. Since you don't see the header file it appears as if you're saving the changes directly to the raw data, but you're not. The header performs the job of a sidecar file, it simply isn't visible:
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Photo source: Nikon
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[csgaraglino]

Just wanted to post a Thank You to all of you that commented - I was able to take a Lightroom Course Friday Night and this shed quite a bit of light on my "new" workflow. While is was a beginners guide to editing in LR - it did give me enough information to associate what I was doing in NX to the procedure in LR. It also gave me the naming conventions that LR uses that I was not aware - making it easier to understand what you guys were talking about.

In short - this is what I learned (in reference to this post):

Lightroom for the most part "does not" bake in the edits - except when you use the "Edit In" function and at that point all your edits are baked in and then opened in the corresponding program (Nik, PS, etc) I think as a TIFF (Nik) and a PSD (PS) and when done comes back to LR as a separate image. I learned this is called "round-tripping". Ok - not the most optimum, but now that I understand what it's doing it's just a matter of separating out all the process that LR does not handle well to the end of my edit workflow. An example would be anything done in Nik or as I learned any big "healing" jobs (seems LR lacks in this dept.).

What is disappointing is that any edits done in the alternate programs are not working with the RAW files anymore. I'm not sure how big of a deal that will be - as I am new to this workflow. Another issue is that and edits int he alternate programs will be backed into the image that comes back to LR. I see that with Nik because it works as a filter - but I'm hoping that there may be a way to save the edits in the PSD file, but I have not played enough with this to know yet?

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

What is disappointing is that any edits done in the alternate programs are not working with the RAW files anymore. I'm not sure how big of a deal that will be - as I am new to this workflow. Another issue is that and edits int he alternate programs will be backed into the image that comes back to LR. I see that with Nik because it works as a filter - but I'm hoping that there may be a way to save the edits in the PSD file, but I have not played enough with this to know yet?

What alternate programs are you talking about? There are ways of listing those programs in LR so that they will be in the "Edit in" function.

Not sure why you would want to save the edit in a PSD file. IF you do need to edit in PS from LR just use the Edit in Function and once you get all the things done in PS then just simply hit save and it will return the edited file back to LR to then to Export and Publish.