Advice needed for sharp bird shots

[aroy]

The bird is soft compared to he rocks, so focus does seem to be off, but that can also be due to the bird's motion. One thing that I have experienced is that to get a tack sharp photo an external flash is invaluable. My SB800 is good enough for 30-40 feet with lenses that are 105mm+. The reasons are
. Flash will strobe the image for less than 1/2000 of a second, so in effect it freezes the motion, this is especially true if you use TTL mode instead of the Fill Flash mode
. With more light available you can use smaller aperture which increases the DOF considerably
. With flash the effect of both the subject and the camera motion are reduced

In case you can afford to, get the Nikon 200-500 zoom lens. that will bring most of the subjects much nearer, and as the maximum aperture is 5.6 will give much better AF than a 200mm with 2X TC.

 

[gustafson]

My first conclusion: Can you see more sharpness on the ground, not clear from the pictures, but could be.
You might have reached a limit on your combination, I do also see that near focus sometimes performs different then far focus on the same TC + lens combination (see an MTF graph on lens performance which will confirm, TCs accentuate this effect).

One point not mentioned here, in sunny weather the air movement can make your picture blurry. I did not see this particularly in your examples, but it is an effect. Also the position of the sun can work on the contrast, depending on the lens. You have to learn about the set-up you are using.

You bring up some good points. I did check the focus point, and the majority (if not all) of the shots had the focus point on the bird's face. At this point, I'm guessing the slow shutter speed was the main culprit, although I'd have expected at least one sharp shot or two despite that.

The sun was almost directly overhead when the photos were taken.



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[gustafson]

The bird is soft compared to he rocks, so focus does seem to be off, but that can also be due to the bird's motion. One thing that I have experienced is that to get a tack sharp photo an external flash is invaluable. My SB800 is good enough for 30-40 feet with lenses that are 105mm+. The reasons are
. Flash will strobe the image for less than 1/2000 of a second, so in effect it freezes the motion, this is especially true if you use TTL mode instead of the Fill Flash mode
. With more light available you can use smaller aperture which increases the DOF considerably
. With flash the effect of both the subject and the camera motion are reduced

In case you can afford to, get the Nikon 200-500 zoom lens. that will bring most of the subjects much nearer, and as the maximum aperture is 5.6 will give much better AF than a 200mm with 2X TC.

Thanks for the input. The bird was not moving much, but using the pop-up flash slowed the shutter speed to where camera shake may have contributed to the softness.

I have the SB-700 - good to know it can work 30-40 ft away. Will keep that in mind as I troubleshoot. BTW, is there a way to use fast shutter speeds with speedlights ? I recall not being able to go faster than 1/320 when shooting in the sun some weeks ago, which resulted in overexposed images.


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[Vincent]

...I did check the focus point, and the majority (if not all) of the shots had the focus point on the bird's face....

Not clear if you misunderstood or if I misunderstand you.
The focus point in the software is only the real focus after you did:
1) get lucky and there is no deviation due to the tolerances on the lens and camera mount
2) you did an AF fine tune specific for this lens/ camera combination

People (including me) sometimes expect too much, with the crop you were doing there, the shutter speed should be really high (which it was not).

 

[gustafson]

Not clear if you misunderstood or if I misunderstand you.
The focus point in the software is only the real focus after you did:
1) get lucky and there is no deviation due to the tolerances on the lens and camera mount
2) you did an AF fine tune specific for this lens/ camera combination

People (including me) sometimes expect too much, with the crop you were doing there, the shutter speed should be really high (which it was not).

Apologies for not being clear. What I meant to say regarding the focus points was that I doublechecked to make sure that I had indeed pointed the center focus point at the bird's face in all the shots - just ruling out one potential source of error. Totally agree on the shutter speed being too low. I ran some tests this weekend and found this lens + TC combo does best at a shutter speed of 1/800 or faster for this distance.

Adding a couple of samples taken at faster shutter speeds. These were processed in post, but were sharper off the bat than the plover series taken at 1/250.

White-winged Dove by p.g.photo.graphy, on Flickr

Blue Jay by p.g.photo.graphy, on Flickr

 

[aroy]

Thanks for the input. The bird was not moving much, but using the pop-up flash slowed the shutter speed to where camera shake may have contributed to the softness.

I have the SB-700 - good to know it can work 30-40 ft away. Will keep that in mind as I troubleshoot. BTW, is there a way to use fast shutter speeds with speedlights ? I recall not being able to go faster than 1/320 when shooting in the sun some weeks ago, which resulted in overexposed images.


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If you use TTL mode (not fill flash mode), then most of the lighting will be from flash and not ambient. In that case the bird will be lighted for only the flash duration ~ 1/2000 or less. That is enough to freeze the motion, both of the object and the camera. In D3300 I get fill flash mode if I select Matrix Metering and TTL mode if I select Single Point metering.

Higher flash speeds are used mainly for "Fill Flash" in bright sunlight when you want to balance the ambient light with flash.

A short explanation on flash working
. For focal plane shutter bodies the shutter moves there are two curtains- the front and the rear. The front curtain starts first and the rear follows with a time gap so in effect a slit moves exposing the sensor.
. The shutter moves at a constant speed and the width of the slit increases as the exposure speed is reduces, till below a certain speed the rear curtain starts after the front curtain has finished. Below this speed the rear curtain will start after with a delay commensurate with the speed selected.
. The electronic flash fires for a very short duration - 1/2000 to 1/10000 of a second. As the shutter moves in a slit the flash cannot expose the whole sensor unless the slit is the size of the sensor. That happens when the front curtain has reached its end and the rear curtain has not started. The exposure speed at which this happes is called the "Flash Synchronization Speed". This speed varies from body to body and can be as low as 1/60 of a second to as high as 1/400, In most Nikon bodies today, it is between 1/200 and 1/250 of a sec.

One method of overcoming the limitation of the focal plane shutter's synchronization limit is for the flash to follow the slit and fire multiple number of times so that the sensor is fully exposed (albeit in seamless strips). That mode is the HSS mode and has to be supported both by the body and the flash gun.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/demystifying-high-speed-sync-68527

 

[gustafson]

If you use TTL mode (not fill flash mode), then most of the lighting will be from flash and not ambient. In that case the bird will be lighted for only the flash duration ~ 1/2000 or less. That is enough to freeze the motion, both of the object and the camera. In D3300 I get fill flash mode if I select Matrix Metering and TTL mode if I select Single Point metering.

Higher flash speeds are used mainly for "Fill Flash" in bright sunlight when you want to balance the ambient light with flash.

A short explanation on flash working
. For focal plane shutter bodies the shutter moves there are two curtains- the front and the rear. The front curtain starts first and the rear follows with a time gap so in effect a slit moves exposing the sensor.
. The shutter moves at a constant speed and the width of the slit increases as the exposure speed is reduces, till below a certain speed the rear curtain starts after the front curtain has finished. Below this speed the rear curtain will start after with a delay commensurate with the speed selected.
. The electronic flash fires for a very short duration - 1/2000 to 1/10000 of a second. As the shutter moves in a slit the flash cannot expose the whole sensor unless the slit is the size of the sensor. That happens when the front curtain has reached its end and the rear curtain has not started. The exposure speed at which this happes is called the "Flash Synchronization Speed". This speed varies from body to body and can be as low as 1/60 of a second to as high as 1/400, In most Nikon bodies today, it is between 1/200 and 1/250 of a sec.

One method of overcoming the limitation of the focal plane shutter's synchronization limit is for the flash to follow the slit and fire multiple number of times so that the sensor is fully exposed (albeit in seamless strips). That mode is the HSS mode and has to be supported both by the body and the flash gun.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/demystifying-high-speed-sync-68527

Thank you for the explanation. This gives me a new lever to experiment with!


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[Fat Fingers]

And don't use a UV filter unless it cost as much as the lens !!!

 

[salukfan111]

Thank you, and I've been advised that before, but those are way over my budget. Also hoping for an option that works handheld.


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Have you sold off the ones you don't use and picked up a 70-300 vrg (it has to be the vr model)? Have you picked up a good copy of a 300 f/4.5 to use with that tc? I still have a good copy of that lens I'd trade straight up for another modified TC 16a.

As the other guys said, set up for back button focuse, additionally use manual mode auto iso configuration, use a default of 1/1500 or so and live with the grain, try and sneak in a few at lower shutters to get the lower iso. The back button focus and manual mode auto iso configuration will change your whole life photography wise.

 

[salukfan111]

And don't use a UV filter unless it cost as much as the lens !!!

He should use an inexpensive UV at all times. He probably doesn't have money to burn and a UV filter has saved my 70-300 vrg on two seperate occassions.

 

[gustafson]

Have you sold off the ones you don't use and picked up a 70-300 vrg (it has to be the vr model)? Have you picked up a good copy of a 300 f/4.5 to use with that tc? I still have a good copy of that lens I'd trade straight up for another modified TC 16a.

As the other guys said, set up for back button focuse, additionally use manual mode auto iso configuration, use a default of 1/1500 or so and live with the grain, try and sneak in a few at lower shutters to get the lower iso. The back button focus and manual mode auto iso configuration will change your whole life photography wise.

Thanks @salukfan111. I haven't sold or acquired any lenses since we last talked. I haven't yet acquired the 70-300 VR G or the 300 f/4.5. I might take you up on the 300 f/4.5 trade for a modified TC-16a, although it might have to wait until mid August due to travel.

Thanks for your tips on camera settings. I've been using BBF and manual with the TC-16a, although with manual ISO. Will switch to auto ISO and see if my results improve.


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[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

The back button focus and manual mode auto iso configuration

This is the only way to go for BiF

 

[salukfan111]

Thanks @salukfan111. I haven't sold or acquired any lenses since we last talked. I haven't yet acquired the 70-300 VR G or the 300 f/4.5. I might take you up on the 300 f/4.5 trade for a modified TC-16a, although it might have to wait until mid August due to travel.

Thanks for your tips on camera settings. I've been using BBF and manual with the TC-16a, although with manual ISO. Will switch to auto ISO and see if my results improve.


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Go to youtube and check out the steve perry nikon videos. This guy is really helpful. There are af optimization videos too that are quite useful.

That 70-300 vrg is the lens all birders should start with. It is sharp enough at 200mm to be on par with that 200 f/4. It gets a little soft after 250mm but once you've got this lens licked then a refurbed 80-400 (new model) would be next.

 

[gustafson]

This is the only way to go for BiF

Just wondering if I'm understanding correctly: Is that so one can use AF-C and burst mode in conjunction without the limitations of using the shutter release button to control both?


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[salukfan111]

This is the only way to go for BiF

I completely agree.

The only problem I get into is sneaking in a 1/250 or so shot (with f/8 or /11) on a perched bird and quickly reset the shutter and forget the f stop. I was shooting a juvinille peregrine and he started chasing a kingfisher about 12 inches off the water in the shade under the bluff wall and the 20 shots looked so good on the back of the camera until I imported them and saw I cranked up the shutter and forgot to maximize the aperture. I went from Nat Geo pictures to 20k + iso crummy shots. With manual mode with auto iso you have to immediately reset everything after a temporary change or I'll forget in the heat of the moment. Apart from that, I'm suprised people shoot in any other mode.

 

[gustafson]

Go to youtube and check out the steve perry nikon videos. This guy is really helpful. There are af optimization videos too that are quite useful.

That 70-300 vrg is the lens all birders should start with. It is sharp enough at 200mm to be on par with that 200 f/4. It gets a little soft after 250mm but once you've got this lens licked then a refurbed 80-400 (new model) would be next.

Thanks for the heads up. I recently discovered that the 55-200 VR II is not too shabby for close-in birds, and can only imagine that the 70-300 VR G is a significant step up from there.


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[salukfan111]

Just wondering if I'm understanding correctly: Is that so one can use AF-C and burst mode in conjunction without the limitations of using the shutter release button control both?


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Go thru the steve perry nikon youtubes concerning AF configuration. There are two or three and watch them all. AFC, group focus, and high burst rate all work together.

 

[gustafson]

I completely agree.

The only problem I get into is sneaking in a 1/250 or so shot (with f/8 or /11) on a perched bird and quickly reset the shutter and forget the f stop. I was shooting a juvinille peregrine and he started chasing a kingfisher about 12 inches off the water in the shade under the bluff wall and the 20 shots looked so good on the back of the camera until I imported them and saw I cranked up the shutter and forgot to maximize the aperture. I went from Nat Geo pictures to 20k + iso crummy shots. With manual mode with auto iso you have to immediately reset everything after a temporary change or I'll forget in the heat of the moment. Apart from that, I'm suprised people shoot in any other mode.

Arggh, I feel your pain. That sounds like a good scenario for using the U1 & U2 modes on the D7100. Not that I personally use it, although I keep meaning to.


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[salukfan111]

Thanks for the heads up. I recently discovered that the 55-200 VR II is not too shabby for close-in birds, and can only imagine that the 70-300 VR G is a significant step up from there.


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You need to use that TC 16a with the 180 f/2.8 lens (far superior to 200 f/4) while you're waiting to upgrade. You should be ok with the TC16a and the 180mm f/2.8. The picture below was 180 f/2.8 with a monster crop (probably 150 yards off). The 180mm f/2.8 with tc16a is capable of taking pictures that blow the 70-300 vrg out of the water. I would love to send the raw for this eagle series to someone that was actually good with PP. The 70-300 vrg is pretty convenient to use and is the best balance (for budget minded folks) going out to shoot birds.

 

[gustafson]

You need to use that TC 16a with the 180 f/2.8 lens (far superior to 200 f/4) while you're waiting to upgrade. You should be ok with the TC16a and the 180mm f/2.8. The picture below was 180 f/2.8 with a monster crop (probably 150 yards off).
View attachment 221520

That's an amazing shot! For some reason, IQ with my 180 f/2.8 + modified TC-16a starts to drop for subjects greater than 30 ft away, and CA is pretty bad Now mine is the pre-AI non ED version, which might be why. I'm finding that my 55-200 VR II crops hold up better than the 180 f/2.8 + TC, so that has been my go-to lens lately.


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