What minimum shutter speed do you use hand held with primes?

[voxmagna]

When I first bought my D750 body I put on a 50mm prime lens for testing. That gave me a light body/lens combination for walkabout shots. Some shots had evidence of shake even at 1/60 which I thought would have been o.k. I am talking small amounts, so small you might think it was a focus issue. tripod tests proved it wasn't the lens or focussing. In autoISO options I then set a conservative minimum shutter speed of 1/100 and the shake issues went away. I also have an 85mm prime and don't trust hand holding that below 1/150. I guess most will all say 'use a tripod', but I'm curious as to how slow you can go with prime lenses hand held on the D750 and whether I need to improve my technique?

I started looking at VR zoom lenses, even though the lenses would require some post correction. My favorite at the moment is the Nikkor 24-85 with minimum shutter set to 1/30. I can easily get sharp shots without shake but always push up shutter speed at max zoom. Hand held propped against a wall I think I could go even slower. It seems a pity that Nikon don't offer their prime lenses with VR and I've not found anybody else doing them? For hand held shooting it seems you cannot always take full advantage of an expensive fast prime lens, when you have to compromise minimum shutter speed with DOF limitations at larger apertures.

Are big expensive prime lenses really for tripods?

 

[BackdoorArts]

The Reciprocal Rule holds for me no matter the lens whenever ISO will allow and the camera is in my hands and not on a tripod. VR only gets used when focal length is 200mm or above, distance to target is less than a foot, or light won't allow for proper shutter speed. Otherwise I find it can soften the photo if it's not allowed to completely lock in before firing - reciprocal shutter speed is always sharper for a non-moving subject.

 

[voxmagna]

Thanks - so the claimed 4 stops with VR comes with a downside? I took some test shots of tree branches and foliage below 1/50 at 50mm zoom, with lots of detail in the shot to preview afterwards. I didn't notice the softening, but I'll repeat with VR on and off to compare. How do you know if VR hasn't 'locked', is it in the Exif?

 

[STM]

1/focal length usually but I will sometimes go an f/ slower. No VR on my AI/AIS!

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I save VR for those times that I absolutely, positively can not get the shot any other way. I have found recently with my Tamron SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD Lens I am getting better result with the VC (VR) turned OFF. On my Nikon 24-120 is seems to work better on. I tend to just shoot fast enough to not have to worry about movement. Generally 1.5 to 2 times the focal length.

 

[BackdoorArts]

How do you know if VR hasn't 'locked', is it in the Exif?

Image has completely stabilized. Suffice it to say, it hampers immediacy when shooting. IMO, 4 stops should only be considered when the stops are needed, not just available. It's not a huge or even noticeable "softening", it's just that once I turned it off and relied strictly on the reciprocal rule I found my images to be consistently sharper.

 

[hark]

Reciprocal Rule

This is an interesting article. While I was aware of the reciprocal rule, I don't use Auto ISO and therefore wasn't aware of the advanced feature allowing the user to set the minimum shutter speed to Auto--especially the info on bumping up that feature by one notch to account for the reciprocal rule. New info to me. Thanks!

I should really work in manual everything since I am so accustomed to looking at the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO all at once. I think it's because I am aware the tendonitis issue in my forearms adds even more shake than what normal people experience so the need to know anal part of me wants to stay aware of all the settings. I can see how this can be beneficial for many people though and hope they read the article.

 

[voxmagna]

After using Auto ISO with a minimum shutter speed set I got good results for outdoor shots in A mode. I am now careful to watch what ISO is doing and modify its setting with the back wheel if I can reduce it for a slower shutter. The reason I started the thread was to explore the trade off between high ISO and more noise, and a slower shutter speed hand held with VR on. Auto ISO was working well for me once I set the minimum shutter speed and the max ISO limit. Recently it all went wrong using a Speedlight MK910 shoe flash first time. Despite trying to tell AUTO ISO what to do, once the flash fired the shot and all subsequent shots were taken at my upper ISO limit. I was using 'A' mode set for f8 or f11 and the flash had enough guide number to put the power out. The camera and TTL flash seemed to be fighting each other for supremacy with AUTO ISO shifting up to 2000+ (my limit) and flash power dropping to claim the prize!

Fed up with this uncertain behaviour I fixed the ISO at 500 using the same aperture settings for more 'round the table' group shots. The camera and flash gave a decent exposure, but needed better technique on my part using bounce and diffusers to reduce foreground burnout. However, there was a tendency to under expose as I guess the flash power ran out when there was no upwards ISO compensation and aperture was fixed for the DOF I needed. However, in post I had more control over the high level foreground highlights and distant shadows using curve compensation provided I started with an under exposed shot. This is where I think AUTO ISO wasn't working for my flash shots. AUTO ISO and flash power are linear exposure 'gain controls' affecting overall exposure according to average metering although my D750 seemed to make its own mind up to use maximum ISO after the first couple of flash shots. Which has priority, the flash or the camera? I think the camera made the high ISO decision and the flash followed with reduced power. Without bounce or diffused flash, the near subjects faces were burned out, although the middle distance exposure was correct. Turning off AUTO ISO for shoe flash gave me results I could correct in post and still get low noise. I've been using highlight-weighted metering outdoors which works well if I do more work in post, but it seems ineffective when using shoe flash.

There is an excellent thread here about using AUTO ISO with shoe flash, although I think that Nikon have changed the way AUTO ISO works with flash on newer cameras like the D750. I'm still puzzled by it for shoe flash. To avoid getting bad pictures again, I'll turn it off until I figure out what is or isn't happening.

 

[voxmagna]

I think it's because I am aware the tendonitis issue in my forearms adds even more shake than what normal people experience

I have a friend with early stage Parkinsons who wants to enjoy photography as long as possible. On advice from others, they switched from film SLR to a high end digital compact with image stab. The best image stab is usually done by the movie camera manufacturers! Full frame DSLR even with VR would still have been difficult. I think the point here is even without a disability, we all handle cameras differently, some with a solid hold, others not. Whilst I accept the premise that VR may take something away from picture quality, getting consistent shots and making use of VR is more important to some than getting unusuable shots with camera shake.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

After using Auto ISO with a minimum shutter speed set I got good results for outdoor shots in A mode.

I use AUTO ISO with my D750 all the time especially with zooms. With the minimum shutter speed there is a AUTO setting that will look at the focal length and set the minimum shutter speed based on the focal length. There is also a slider there that can increase or decrease the minimum. I have found that normal on that slider is 1x focal length. one click up is 1.5 times and 2 clicks up is 2 times. You can play with those controls to get what works for you. I also occasional set the AUTO ISO to the same as low and high EXample 100 ISO with a max of 100ISO just to get the shutter speed to do what I want it to

 

[voxmagna]

Thanks I'd forgotten about the AUTO low shutter setting linked to the zoom focal length. If you do want to use VR you can move that slider to the left a click and move the shutter slower a couple of stops, which VR should take care of. Now I'll go and see what happens if I fit a prime instead of a zoom. OK it's stupid, still falls back to the low setting and isn't clever enough to know if VR is present, on or off to fall back on the 1/focal length rule. For outdoor shots AUTO ISO with auto shutter algorithm does what I'd expect. You set f stop in A priority, ISO starts at minimum 100, the auto shutter cranks down to the slowest setting if there is low light, then ISO is raised. That's fine. Now what's odd is all this with my shoe flash. The ISO I see in the viewfinder is not the ISO used when the flash fires, which you only find out by looking at EXIF after the shot when it can get cranked up to your upper ISO limit and under expose if flash power has maxed out. I suppose that's o.k. but it would be nice if the viewfinder held the shot ISO value for a second.

 

[aroy]

I do not use Auto ISO. I use A with fixed ISO most of the time at 100, sometimes at 400, but rarely more. My hands shake at times so I tend to shoot either in bright light so that the shutter is fast - between 250 and 500 or use my SB800 to freeze the shots.

That said I have at times managed to get perfect shots at 1/30 in low light with my back supported by a wall or sitting with hands firmly on the arms, but in general barring still objects, people move a bit (resulting in motion blur), so it is better to use faster shutter and/or flash.

 

[voxmagna]

Thanks, perhaps I should have started a new thread 'Do you use AUTO ISO' as I'm leaning towards not using it. I can see if you must get some kind of shot whatever the light level it will work and I would put AUTO ISO definitely in the camera point and shoot AUTO feature mode, but the results when you start editing and cropping could show high ISO noise. I'm coming around to thinking ISO gain control on a DSLR is doing no more than exposure gain correction in post. If you are getting correct exposure using the controls you don't need AUTO ISO to start doing things you can't understand. But post is better because you can selectively control the curve rather than the camera applying flat gain and risk burning highlights you can't remove. I've looked at some of my AUTO ISO shots using shoe flash and I could have done better choosing another aperture and fixing the ISO.

I tested the D750 AUTO ISO algorithm for daylight shots in A mode: For a bright daylight scene ISO starts at your set minimum say 100, then shutter steps slower until it reaches your set low limit as the scene gets darker. When the your automatic low shutter speed limit is reached, ISO then starts increasing up to the maximum you allowed. If the scene is even darker, shutter starts getting slower below your threshold setting, when you might get shake or blurred movement. Rather like aircraft crash warning 'Brace' your camera shouts 'Tripod'! I'm happy it works that way for daylight, but it doesn't work like that using my shoe flash.

In your case I guess you do what all good manual photographers do - look at the metered settings, make judgement decisions for Aperture, Shutter and ISO, then check the shot afterwards in preview for exposure and focus?