looking for a battery analyzer

rocketman122

Senior Member
im looking for a product that can check the multiple batteries I have and tell me how much life they have in them. I use a lot of batteries for flashes but cant remember which was bought when and thats trouble when im shooting. looking to check if theyre "tired" and need to be put to pension.
thank you
 

nickt

Senior Member
I have this Maha MH-C9000:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NLUSLM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Its on the big side. I like that. No struggle to insert or remove any cells, runs cooler too. Being that I only have the 4 cell, I like to be able to pluck cells out as they are done so finger room between cells is a plus for me.

I had the popular LaCrosse BC9009. Hard for my fingers to get at the batteries. I also had trouble with the switches. Had to take it apart a couple of times to clean contacts. Eventually I had a component burn the circuit board.
I think some guys here have an 8 cell version of the Maha. Not sure if that has the analyze mode.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
I have enough battery chargers. its not my reason for buying one. I need an analyzer which can tell me the life condition of the batteries I have. to throw away or keep using them. all the rest of the features arent useful to me. I have 5 x 8battery chargers which is fine. I charge more than 50 batteries per wedding. I just dont know which need replacing and which dont.
 

nickt

Senior Member
I have enough battery chargers. its not my reason for buying one.
Recharging was not my reason for recommending it. Both chargers I mentioned are popular for their test functions as you asked. The zts testers Fred mentioned are popular with the flashlight (torch) and radio control crowd. Especially popular with the battery sellers so they can do a quick test and lithium battery users who need to match cell capacities. Great for alkaline and other primary batteries too. But I would still recommend the maha charger I mentioned above for AA rechargables. It will charge the battery, rest for an hour, then run it down at a good rate and recharge it again. At the end of the test it will report how much power actually came out of the battery during the discharge. A tired battery may pass a quick test and a quick test might also find a tired battery, but not always. There nothing like running it down and measuring what was actually produced. The Maha will come back and tell you that your 2200mah battery only delivered 1500mah.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I have enough battery chargers. its not my reason for buying one. I need an analyzer which can tell me the life condition of the batteries I have. to throw away or keep using them. all the rest of the features arent useful to me. I have 5 x 8battery chargers which is fine. I charge more than 50 batteries per wedding. I just dont know which need replacing and which dont.

There is really only one test for a battery. If the battery is rated at 2000 mah, will it still deliver 2000 mah? (at the standard discharge specifications).

My vote is also the Maha MH-C9000. It has variable charge and discharge rates (up to 2 amps), and is a good tester, and it has two test modes. It does four cells only.

The one called Break-In mode actually does the IEC specifications for testing (the advertised numbers), which takes a long time (couple of days, so running it on a UPS power backup can be a pretty good idea). It applies 16 hours of 0.1C charge, and then one hour rest, and then 0.2C discharge (measuring mah available for each cell), rest again, and then 16 hour 0.1C charge again.

But it also has a mode called Discharge, where it simply discharges at the selected discharge rate (which to be a meaningful number should be the IEC 0.2C rate, which is selectable). 0.2C for a 2000 mah cell is 0.2 x 2000 rating = 400ma rate. 0.2C discharge should take about 1/0.2 = 5 hours. I think it discharges down to 0.9 volts. The C9000 charges and discharges each cell individually, and discharge reports its actual mah capacity (of each cell).

Default charge rate is 1 amp which is 0.5C for 2000 mah cells.

You can set discharge to a higher rate to be much faster, but it becomes meaningless. Batteries are not really linear, and tested discharge mah numbers should be at the IEC specified rate.

They say doing this full (2 day) breakin cycle every few dozen cycles can restore capacity in aged batteries.

Manual for C9000 is
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/maha/mh-c9000-charger/MHC9000_MANUAL.pdf
 

WayneF

Senior Member
The Maha will come back and tell you that your 2200mah battery only delivered 1500mah.

? My Maha tells me my 2000 mah Eneloops typically deliver about 2200 mah. Most of mine are 7 to 9 years old.

I suspect any confusion involves improper discharge rate, not being the IEC spec that rates batteries.
 
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nickt

Senior Member
? My Maha tells me my 2000 mah Eneloops typically deliver about 2200 mah. Most of mine are 7 to 9 years old.

I suspect any confusion involves improper discharge rate, not the IEC spec that rates batteries.
I'm not confused. (Not today anyway, lol.) I was trying to give an example of how the maha could help the OP check his batteries but I worded it poorly. Sometimes it sounds good in my head, but not on paper. I was trying to say if the Maha reports back that his 2000mah delivered somewhat less than that, say 1500mah, then its getting old even though the cell might pass other tests. By the way my eneloops are great too. Amazing like-new performance after so many years.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
weird. pros I know, say the same as me, they die after 1.5 years of intense use for weddings. If I need it to shoot a flash shot every few minutes, it can do it but I know, whether energizers 2300+ or eneloop pro black, they dont hold more than 1.5 years of intense use. im shooting 1500 shots at a wedding with flash. so it may say "good" with the charger, but from experience they dont give out the same intensity as before. they will fire a flash but they dont perform for long. this has been confirmed by many pros in facebook groups I frequent. the black 2450 are monster. they deliver punch after punch and recyle fast but dont last long. the whites though are not as potent and are great for things like slaves and camera grips. but not flash if you need quick recycle under intense work.
 

nickt

Senior Member
I am not a pro, I don't use my eneloops in flash that much. Almost 100% in other non-camera gadgets like flashlights, gps, radios, etc. Mine are all the 2000ma variety. From what I read, the higher the mah rating, the less life you get. So your experience makes sense to me. That constant pounding probably zaps the life out of them. It might not be worth testing for your use, maybe going forward, mark them and toss them at 18 months.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
My use is not "intense" either. I use studio lights (on AC) for anything approaching intense. I do a few speedlight shots pretty often, and a few flashes spread the load around, but I recharge Eneloops after a few months, need it or not. :) They seem always good to go.

NiMH does have a limited number of full recycles. Currently, for Eneloops specified at 2100 cycles, that's still 3 weddings a week for 13 years.

But intense use probably does need a tester that verifies capacity. And the long Break In test is said to rejuvenate capacity (at least to some extent). I can't say yeah or nay on that, I've done it a couple of times on most of mine, but they seemed good before, however certainly it doesn't hurt them. :)

I've never seen one of the zts testors. Their manuals online offer no description of the test, but works on any type of battery, and implies the test takes a second or two, and flashes a good LED without reporting any numbers. So I am not trusting, IMO, I think testing means that you need to actually verify capacity, discharge over hours, result numbers in mah, i.e., verified capacity to be expected.
 
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rocketman122

Senior Member
I am not a pro, I don't use my eneloops in flash that much. Almost 100% in other non-camera gadgets like flashlights, gps, radios, etc. Mine are all the 2000ma variety. From what I read, the higher the mah rating, the less life you get. So your experience makes sense to me. That constant pounding probably zaps the life out of them. It might not be worth testing for your use, maybe going forward, mark them and toss them at 18 months.

I beat on my flash. and those batteries get nice and toasty many times. some are good and some are tiring. I bought 32 of them over a year, and not together and cant tell which is which. stupid me. plus the black label makes it hard to write on it. ill use some scotch tape and write on that in blue sharpie. but still it makes no sense top throw them out by date bought since any 4 of them can be used in any of my 8 flashes since I dont assign a specific 4 batts to a specific batt. thats just crazy and will cause havoc to anyones workflow.


My use is not "intense" either. I use studio lights (on AC) for anything approaching intense. I do a few speedlight shots pretty often, and a few flashes spread the load around, but I recharge Eneloops after a few months, need it or not. :) They seem always good to go.

NiMH does have a limited number of full recycles. Currently, for Eneloops specified at 2100 cycles, that's still 3 weddings a week for 13 years.

But intense use probably does need a tester that verifies capacity. And the long Break In test is said to rejuvenate capacity (at least to some extent). I can't say yeah or nay on that, I've done it a couple of times on most of mine, but they seemed good before, however certainly it doesn't hurt them. :)

I've never seen one of the zts testors. Their manuals online offer no description of the test, but works on any type of battery, and implies the test takes a second or two, and flashes a good LED without reporting any numbers. So I am not trusting, IMO, I think testing means that you need to actually verify capacity, discharge over hours, result numbers in mah, i.e., verified capacity to be expected.

wow, I wish even half that, but alas they do not hold even quite that long. we know mfr give best case scenario under the best conditions.

yes thats exactly what im looking for. something thorough that can tell me info so I know what to expect from it in the field.

how does this look to you Wayne?
Opus BT C3100 V2 2 Digital Intelligent 4 Slots LCD 10400 14500 Battery Charger | eBay
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
Sorry, I am not familiar with it, but it reads good. IMO, it appears to be copied from the Maha C9000. I don't find an Opus web site, maybe it is Chinese?

Are you in Australia? Check Amazon. Amazon US has a BC-3400 you might be interested in.
Here are users discussing the difference in 3100 and 3400:
Difference between Opus BT-C3400 & BT-C3100 v2.1? | BudgetLightForum.com (seemingly they are not too sure).

There are reviews online, here is an extensive one:
Review of Charger Opus BT-C3100

In his conclusion, he dislikes the pulsing current, but Maha also does that, and considers it necessary and a big plus. It allows dV/dt termination. The charger can read battery voltage in between current pulses. Actual real current is computed and reported.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
ok, very appreciative of the help I received from Henrik through the review link you gave me, so thank you for your help as well Wayne. I truly appreciate it.

my friend ordered the opus as an impulse buyer after I mentioned I was looking for an analyzer. but as your recommendation and Henrik also confirmed, the Powerex was what I ordered.

im happy. thanks so much guys. youre all wonderful!
 

WayneF

Senior Member
ok, very appreciative of the help I received from Henrik through the review link you gave me, so thank you for your help as well Wayne. I truly appreciate it.

my friend ordered the opus as an impulse buyer after I mentioned I was looking for an analyzer. but as your recommendation and Henrik also confirmed, the Powerex was what I ordered.

im happy. thanks so much guys. youre all wonderful!


Those are exceptional and excellent reviews, showing information not available anyplace else. One or two little things though, perhaps something gets lost in translation, maybe I read something he didn't write.

He does not like the Opus doing pulsed current charging, yet it is required in sophisticated chargers doing dV/dt.

And he has a thing about charging more mah than cell capacity. Yet this is always a requirement, it always necessarily happens, it is an efficiency thing. The significance of the IEC spec for 16 hours at 0.1C charge is 60% overcharge, to insure full charge. The cells can easily handle it if at the low 0.1C rate (200 ma for 2000 mah Eneloops). This is all that some cheap chargers do, no monitoring, just long and slow for a fixed time. Other cheap chargers go fast, and just wait for high temperature to stop. The good ones have a computer to monitor current and voltage of each cell individually. The irony is that cheap chargers overcharging fast might be seen to do better charging. :) However, that certainly can affect your battery life in years (so your 1.5 year question might be about which chargers you use?)

He says the Maha C9000 does not do either pulsed current or dV/dt, yet he shows clear graphs of the pulsed current, which is done for dV/dt, so it is very puzzling what he meant. And the Maha definitely does implement dV/dt (it has been discussed for years), but dV/dt is problematic in every case for NiMH (worked better for NiCD). Often the cells hit the voltage limit before dV/dt, so Maha will stop then. I think charge rate affects how easily dV/dt is seen (Maha says stay between 0.3C and 1C charge. and 0.5C is default). The Maha will stop on dV/dt, voltage, or temperature, whichever occurs first.

I drive a Toyota Prius, which has NiMH batteries in it (around 180 D cells in series for about 200 volts at 7.2 amps). Also has a gas engine used normally, but tuned for economy and pollution instead of power. So the purpose of the electric motor is that it used for added acceleration and power torque, as instantly needed, at any speed). I just bought at 2016, and not yet very familiar with it (it sure drives better), but I had a 2008 for 8 years.

The point is, the Prius computer limits NiMH charging to about 80% capacity, and limits discharge to about 40% capacity. It is continually discharging and charging all the time, but charge will not exceed those limits. They guarantee the NiMH cells for 8 years (10 in California), and sometimes there are reports of one failing, but the general idea is that the batteries should last for the life of the car.

So my guess is that you might be using some cheap hot shot fast charger for your NiMH that last only 1.5 years? And your intense use might make it a good choice, replacing the batteries periodically might not be a big deal for your use?
 
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rocketman122

Senior Member
wow, he does do thorough reviews. yes, I read he doesnt like the opus as a charger but I need it for the analysis part. whats so bad about pulse charging though?

I use 6 vapex tech chargers
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vapextech-Super-Smart-Battery-Charger-Black/dp/B008ETHO7G

they seem ok to me. they may not be the best but they do what I need. but there may be something that not visual thats ruining the batteries faster than it should. I wouldnt know

yes, quick charging seems to be the best in people eyes although im not usually in a rush to charge everything quickly. but its happened I shot a wedding on thursday, came back at 4 at night and had to charge all my batts for an afternoon friday wedding thats starts at 8:30 in the morning but they arent many.

he recommends the white eneloops over the blacks although hey give less oomph.

heres the specs- I almost always use 2+ batts at a time, but mostly 4 or 8 at a time so it drops down im
View attachment 215415
the new prius looks really sleek. not the same, but I rode an electric scooter. horrible driving experience. I think total electric has some way. it had the immediate pull but then stabilized and was quite weak. range anxiety is a real thing. nonstop worrying. you have the best of both worlds. engine and electric so immediate pull and longer range and higher top end. why the hell 90/40%?

"guarantee the NiMH cells for 8 years" guarantee or warranty? how does one know though regarding wear and if its up to spec? just a plug in module?

btw, im not really competent regarding electricity as you..I dont think anyone here is. sorry if I offended that 1 other person. but running a atest on the analyzer I bought, a bad/tired/worn out aa nimh battery will just not go up to the mah capacity of a new battery? meaning, one eneloop batt will go to 2350mah (for example) and a tired one will go to 2150mah after going through the 12 hour test? what do I look for to see if its good or not. it will just me numbers, but how do I analyze these numbers. what the threshold of good or bad?

I wonder a personal thing about you. with your extensive know how in math do you sometimes , when you speak to regular people, feel you dont have an equal you can share your interest or converse with? just like my love of photography and talking to someone who doesnt and I feel frustration who doesnt get me. not in a snob way or condescending way. just a person who has my interest in that. im sure you have forums you frequent who have your intellect you can share and understand one another.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
wow, he does do thorough reviews. yes, I read he doesnt like the opus as a charger but I need it for the analysis part. whats so bad about pulse charging though?

I use 6 vapex tech chargers
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vapextech-Super-Smart-Battery-Charger-Black/dp/B008ETHO7G

they seem ok to me. they may not be the best but they do what I need. but there may be something that not visual thats ruining the batteries faster than it should. I wouldnt know

It's surely a good charger. Says dV/dt and monitors each cell. Says charges 2000 ma (fairly fast) with one cell, and 500 ma with 8. The Maha regulates current at each cell, individual settings from 200 ma to 2000 ma (but only for four cells).


yes, quick charging seems to be the best in people eyes although im not usually in a rush to charge everything quickly. but its happened I shot a wedding on thursday, came back at 4 at night and had to charge all my batts for an afternoon friday wedding thats starts at 8:30 in the morning but they arent many.

he recommends the white eneloops over the blacks although hey give less oomph.

Sounds right to me too. The special Eneloops are like double price for only a few percent more capacity.
Two sets of white ones are double price too, but 200% more capacity. It doesn't seem a big deal to swap them out quickly, as needed. Recycle tells you when they are getting low.

heres the specs- I almost always use 2+ batts at a time, but mostly 4 or 8 at a time so it drops down im
View attachment 215415
the new prius looks really sleek. not the same, but I rode an electric scooter. horrible driving experience. I think total electric has some way. it had the immediate pull but then stabilized and was quite weak. range anxiety is a real thing. nonstop worrying. you have the best of both worlds. engine and electric so immediate pull and longer range and higher top end. why the hell 90/40%?

They simply don't risk overcharging, because they have to last for years.
Possibly undercharging is the same thing, but the batteries also power the starting motor, so they save some for it. In fact, on a Prius, the air conditioner and the water pump are also electric, running on the same batteries (the motor shuts off stopped at traffic lights, but the AC continue on). It also has a smallish 12V car battery for lights and electronics (charged from the HV batteries), but importantly, that operates a relay to switch in the high voltage battery. When the 12V is dead, you jumper start it just to activate the relay to the real starter motor battery. :)

The Prius is certainly not a muscle car, won't win any races, but performance seems extremely adequate to me. Texas has 75 MPH limits on interstate highways, and it does it all day. It does not have a shiftable transmission with gears, but has a ring gear setup that the computer controls. Driver only sees Drive and Reverse.

"guarantee the NiMH cells for 8 years" guarantee or warranty? how does one know though regarding wear and if its up to spec? just a plug in module?

I don't know. They show charge status, but capacity is not shown.
The batteries are in steel case, 3 or 4 feet long, under the back seat. Basically they are D cell capacity, but are made square for packaging. The assembly is said to cost over $2000 to replace. Junk yard batteries are popular in that event.


btw, im not really competent regarding electricity as you..I dont think anyone here is. sorry if I offended that 1 other person. but running a atest on the analyzer I bought, a bad/tired/worn out aa nimh battery will just not go up to the mah capacity of a new battery? meaning, one eneloop batt will go to 2350mah (for example) and a tired one will go to 2150mah after going through the 12 hour test? what do I look for to see if its good or not. it will just me numbers, but how do I analyze these numbers. what the threshold of good or bad?

I think it is just the capacity mah number that matters. Capacity does decrease with age and use, but if it will still actually deliver 2000 mah, then it still does what it was spec'd to do. Capacity does decrease with age and use.

I wonder a personal thing about you. with your extensive know how in math do you sometimes , when you speak to regular people, feel you dont have an equal you can share your interest or converse with? just like my love of photography and talking to someone who doesnt and I feel frustration who doesnt get me. not in a snob way or condescending way. just a person who has my interest in that. im sure you have forums you frequent who have your intellect you can share and understand one another.

LOL. I don't think I'm very special. :) I'm just interested in how things actually work, where many don't care. I feel at at disadvantage to those with the ability to turn out the special pictures. The "art" aspect just seems not my thing.
 
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