Mike D90's "Birds in Flight" Learning Thread

[Mike D90]

Finally got a beautiful sun filled morning today. I took this opportunity to get some BIF shots and I was very lucky to have Egrets, Buzzards and Hawks all available today!

While I did better than I expected I would my shots leave a lot lacking. They look great as small photos but when I view them at 100% they are either grainy or a lot of fuzzy around where I would like to see sharp.

I am not yet sure what I did wrong. It is either aperture, shutter speed or I am just not yet close enough and am cropping too much and losing quality.

I will figure this out though.

Anyway, here are the best of what I shot today. My first BIF shots with my 70-300mm VR ED lens.

Here are the Egret shots

 

[Mike D90]

Here is the best of the pathetic Hawk shots. I was greatly disappointed in these. I thought they would be really nice.

 

[pictaker64]

tough call..looks like lots of sun...was your shutter speed over 1000?single point focus?how much are you cropping? 50%/75% 25%...lets see some details,with that setup and some hints na d tricks you should be able to get some crisp shots in no time
edit-are you using any software to edit? I can lighten up the hawk for you and post it if you want...

 

[Mike D90]

tough call..looks like lots of sun...was your shutter speed over 1000?single point focus?how much are you cropping? 50%/75% 25%...lets see some details,with that setup and some hints na d tricks you should be able to get some crisp shots in no time
edit-are you using any software to edit? I can lighten up the hawk for you and post it if you want...

There was a lot of sun but this time of year it never gets up high. Always off the shoulder/to the side type of sun light.

Shutter was no less than 1/1500th sec. I did not use Single point focus this time and wish I had now. I used 3D tracking with AF-C. I did crop a good bit off these, probably too much crop. Not sure how much percent I cropped though. I can post an uncropped version.

I need a longer lens or I needed to be a lot closer.

Feel free to do what you like with my images. I am here to learn as much as I can. My software only does so much as I only have NikonView NX2, Photoshop 7.0 and LightZone.

 

[dramtastic]

Your being way too hard on yourself Mike. You should see my first egret BIF shot. Yours are better. The hawk is still a nice shot but you picked a tough angle looking straight up on the darker underbelly. I know you don't have the software but just a little reduction in shadows would highlight some more detail. Birders do tons of heavy cropping even with longer lenses, it's just part and parcel of shooting this subject.

 

[pictaker64]

I lightened it up a bit and recropped,just so I could work on it,course you lose more with the recrop,and add noise but it is what it is..single point focus without a doubt for shooting bif,lay it right on them and pull the trigger ...might take some practice but you should get used to it.I leave both eyes open and follow the bird till I get it in frame and click..what aperture you at? sometimes shooting wide open will make you lose a lot of detail...step it back to 9 and see how it goes.You want detail,but if your not getting focus,it will never happen....are you shooting raw?jpg? raw will help you with post processing,more data to use for the proggies,plus if you are a little short on light(like the hawk shot) you can bring it up two steps without losing anything....I have rambled enough,I am sure there are plenty of pro's here who can chime in...


edit-and like dramtastic says ,you should see some of my first shots...YIKES...maybe 1 out of a hundred was semi good

 

[dramtastic]

Mike doesn't yet have the software to make the most of his shots. I will agree that, and I believe Mike didn't, he should be stopping down to F8/9/10/11 and checking which one produces the sharpest results. There was more than enough available light for this.

 

[Bill16]

I think you did awesome for your first birds in flight shots!

 

[Rick M]

Nice shots so far! You might try a Circular Polarizer when you have alot of direct sunlight. It will reduce the reflection off the bright white feathers and enhance the sky at the same time.

 

[Mike D90]

what aperture you at? sometimes shooting wide open will make you lose a lot of detail...step it back to 9 and see how it goes.You want detail,but if your not getting focus,it will never happen....are you shooting raw? jpg? raw will help you with post processing,more data to use for the proggies,plus if you are a little short on light(like the hawk shot) you can bring it up two steps without losing anything....

edit-and like dramtastic says ,you should see some of my first shots...YIKES...maybe 1 out of a hundred was semi good


View attachment 62357

I was almost wide open to keep shutter speed up and ISO as far down as possible. I shoot RAW/NEF

Mike doesn't yet have the software to make the most of his shots. I will agree that, and I believe Mike didn't, he should be stopping down to F8/9/10/11 and checking which one produces the sharpest results. There was more than enough available light for this.

No, I was at f/5.3 or 5.7.

 

[dramtastic]

No difference to your still shots Mike. You still need to stop down. I'd take some shots at 7.1 then 8,9,10,11. I reckon somewhere between 7.1 and 9 is going to be the sweet spot. I'm almost always stopped down to F8 with the 1.4TC on(down from F5.6) and F5.6 with the TC off(down from F4).

 

[pictaker64]

I am with dramtastic,try 8 or 9 and watch your meter,you can under expose a bit and compensate in Viewnx with the exposure comp,which is the first one under adjustments...depending on the bird,you could go as low as 800 for a shutter speed,larger wingspans are slower.Closer is always better but most times you cant get there.Sometimes,and this is funny,I will pull up to birds with my car because they dont see it as a threat and shoot from the open window,you would be surprised how many pros have told me that.I would try the 8 or 9,bump the iso if you have to,remember you can under expose a little and try to keep your shutter speed above 1000 and see where that gets you..also single point af shooting..I think you will be pleasantly surprised,and remember,even under the best conditions,they are just too far away for a big crop so you have to settle for a smaller crop and chalk it up to experience.All of us have been where you are now,frustration can take hold quick so please keep trying and one day your goin to get "the" shot and it will be all worth it..

 

[Krs_2007]

Mike these are really nice shots, don't sell yourself short.

 

[Ironwood]

Mike these are really nice shots, don't sell yourself short.

I agree with Kevin.

You have only had the lens a couple days, and you are shooting great shots like these already. They beat any BIF shot I have taken so far.

I won't try and give any advice on settings and technique, the others have covered that.
But I will suggest that when you get a hundred or so, of decent shots, download some free software trials and see what you can do with some good noise reduction tools.
​I did this with the NIK software, it has a 15 day free trial period, I was amazed at how much better my photos looked after running them through the Dfine tool.

 

[Mike D90]

Mike these are really nice shots, don't sell yourself short.

Thank you very much! I agree they are nice shots but I am striving for great shots! I am not frustrated yet. I am just determined. I will agree I am a bit frustrated with camera settings though. I just am not sure how I can shoot at f/8 or f/11, while keeping shutter above 1/1000th sec and keeping ISO at a decent setting that doesn't produce the grain and noise. My camera just does not like ISO 1600 at all.

I agree with Kevin.
But I will suggest that when you get a hundred or so, of decent shots, download some free software trials and see what you can do with some good noise reduction tools.
​I did this with the NIK software, it has a 15 day free trial period, I was amazed at how much better my photos looked after running them through the Dfine tool.

Dramtastic suggested free trials as well but my old computer doesn't meet the minimum system specs for any of it. It barely runs what I have and it takes me hours to edit just a few shots.

 

[Krs_2007]

Try bringing your shutter speed down a bit, but I would say stay around 500. But I have no experience with BIF. Just keep clicking and you will get your great shot, I have to keep telling myself that too.

 

[dramtastic]

Hi Mike,
I'm not sure what connection your making between stopping down to F8 and grainy photo's. Stopping down, to a point, will only increase sharpness. Maybe I've read your post incorrectly. Shutter speed is absolutely crucial. You might fluke a few large birds shooting at under 1/800th but your keeper rate will be lower for sure. I can shoot pretty sharp stills hand held at 1/4000th if it is a tiny bird. Why, because the little buggers have constant nervous movements. Also if they decide to take off I'm in with a chance of taking a BIF shot. For any BIF shot I never go under 1/1000th and that's for larger, slower birds like Ibis/Egrets/Pelicans.
That's all camera stuff, technique is very important and that's practice and more practice.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

Finally got a beautiful sun filled morning today. I took this opportunity to get some BIF shots and I was very lucky to have Egrets, Buzzards and Hawks all available today!

While I did better than I expected I would my shots leave a lot lacking. They look great as small photos but when I view them at 100% they are either grainy or a lot of fuzzy around where I would like to see sharp.

I am not yet sure what I did wrong. It is either aperture, shutter speed or I am just not yet close enough and am cropping too much and losing quality.

What is the EXIF of these shots?

They look good here but we don't get the same views you do.

 

[mikew_RIP]

Don't knock yourself out over these mike,its already been said great shots to start you off,you will see from the Hawk shot a bit of PP starts to show how good it can be,i used multi point on the focus until i got the hang of staying with the bird,now i use single point.

 

[Mike D90]

Hi Mike,
I'm not sure what connection your making between stopping down to F8 and grainy photo's. Stopping down, to a point, will only increase sharpness. Maybe I've read your post incorrectly. Shutter speed is absolutely crucial.

I am not making a direct connection between aperture and grainy. The connection I am attempting to make is between aperture and shutter speed and/or ISO changes. Aperture controls the flow of light through the lens like water through a hose. If I stop down, shutter speed will have to slow down or ISO will have to go higher. Since I try to keep shutter speed above 1/1000th it will only bump my ISO up. That is where the grainy/softness seems to happen. I do understand that smaller aperture will increase overall sharpness due to a better DOF. However, it affects exposure too.