Can someone explain the whole no-flash-commander, flash control, wireless, radio...

Rather than hijacking the other thread asking about using a flash, I'll ask this separately...

I've got a D500 on order but it won't be here for a few days. I'm more than a little confused about the whole "wireless flash control with optical or radio" thing... I've been controlling my SB-800 wirelessly ever since my D300. Fire up commander, pop up the flash, set it to remote, voila - flashes fire when I want. Same thing with the D810. Never had a problem.

BUT, on the D500, no popup flash, no Commander... So, WHAT piece or pieces do I actually NEED to control my venerable SB-800s wirelessly on the D500? Is it a WR-R10 or SU800 or WR-A10 or WHAT?

And WHAT does an SB-5000 buy me for $600 that's so much better than what I've got that it'd be worth the cost? Is there full wireless RADIO control directly from the D500 to an SB-5000 50 feet away or do I STILL need additional pieces of equipment to make it work?

Lastly, if there ARE additional pieces required, can someone relate Nikon-speak to Ebay-speak and point me at whatever I'd need from one of the 3rd parties to do wireless control for the SB-800s, and if I DO need some additional thing to control an SB-5000 what 3rd party choices there may be? Preferably to provide radio control for a 3rd party SB-5000 equivalent for the D500 and optical control from my other bodies...

I presume this will make a lot more sense once I've had the D500 for a month, but at the moment I've read a bunch of contradictory posts and I'm going to need the same or better full wireless flash control for the D500 than I have now with my other bodies. So, experts?

GracieAllen said:

BUT, on the D500, no popup flash, no Commander... So, WHAT piece or pieces do I actually NEED to control my venerable SB-800s wirelessly on the D500? Is it a WR-R10 or SU800 or WR-A10 or WHAT?

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If the D500 supports commander mode via an external flash, then you could still use the SU-800 to do an optical trigger from your D500 to your external SB-800s.

If the D500 does not support commander mode with the SU-800, then you would need a speed light on the D500 to optically trigger your SB-800s, but it would not be commander mode so you would lose the CLS control (as I understand it).

The other option would be to use radio triggers. I use Phottix Odin/Stratos and Yongnuo YN622 triggers for the radio function instead of depending on the line-of-sight CLS functionality. Using either Phottix or Yongnuo, you can continue to use your SB-800s and just add the transmitter/transcievers to your camera/speedlight(s).

And WHAT does an SB-5000 buy me for $600 that's so much better than what I've got that it'd be worth the cost? Is there full wireless RADIO control directly from the D500 to an SB-5000 50 feet away or do I STILL need additional pieces of equipment to make it work?

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Yes, the SB-5000 has a radio receiver built in, that can listen to the D500s transmitter for radio-based TTL triggering.

Lastly, if there ARE additional pieces required, can someone relate Nikon-speak to Ebay-speak and point me at whatever I'd need from one of the 3rd parties to do wireless control for the SB-800s, and if I DO need some additional thing to control an SB-5000 what 3rd party choices there may be? Preferably to provide radio control for a 3rd party SB-5000 equivalent for the D500 and optical control from my other bodies...

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Tall order. You need to decide what radio system you want to use. The opinions on each system is as varied as the Canon-vs-Nikon debate, so you'll get a lot of different answers on what to look for on eBay. Decide which system you want first, and then you can be guided as to what to look for on eBay. Just my humble opinion, of course, and good luck.

Gee, if Nikon had put a built-in flash with commander mode on the D500, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I absolutely agree Bikerbrent.....

The D300 and equivalent had it. The D800 had it. The D810 has it. The D7200 has it... As near as I can tell, pretty much any of the higher level pro-sumer or consumer models (things other than the D3, D4, D5) have a built-in to run Commander mode. If it's good enough for a D810, it seems to me that it should be on the D500. If Nikon wants to offer the OPTION of going to radio control, fine, but Commander mode has worked fine for me for the last 8 years and I'm a bit puzzled why they would try to force everyone to buy a bunch of additional stuff (su800, wr-r10, wr-a10, SB-5000) to have it again...

As for the SB-5000 with a receiver to talk to the D500 - does the D500 HAVE a built-in radio transmitter? I looked but didn't see anything obviously listed as being a transmitter to control the flash, or do I STILL have to buy another piece to make that work?

Waterproofing they say. More money for them, i think

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istan said:

Waterproofing they say. More money for them, i think

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I agree, Nikon figures that if you can afford the overpriced D500, you can also afford their overpriced flash units and accessories. And lets not forget that Nikon apparently did everything possible to make 3rd party units incompatible. Look at the D500 battery situation, the D500 is NOT even compatible with their own older batteries!

Bikerbrent said:

Look at the D500 battery situation, the D500 is NOT even compatible with their own older batteries!

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Let's hope Samsung wasn't brought in to design the D500's battery components.

I really don't think there's anything sinister at play here. The D4/D5 don't have built-in pop-up flash, so my estimation is that's what Nikon was thinking when they rolled out the DX version of the D5 ... keep it the same. After all, there are people like me who are refusing to jump on the D750/D7200 train because of the compromised weatherproofing that the tilt screen introduced, so possibly Nikon is wanting to point to doing away with the onboard flash that I never used to show me they are listening. Or maybe today I'm off my meds and caffeine deficient, leading me to be more optimistic than my usual pessimistic self would be.

I probably misread your entry, but what "tilt screen" compromise on the D750/D7200? I've got a D7200 and mine doesn't have a tilt screen. Does the D750?

GracieAllen said:

I probably misread your entry, but what "tilt screen" compromise on the D750/D7200? I've got a D7200 and mine doesn't have a tilt screen. Does the D750?

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The D750 has an articulating rear LCD; the D7200 does not.

Horoscope Fish said:

The D750 has an articulating rear LCD; the D7200 does not.

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My mistake, I thought the D7200 had also added that. I didn't verify that before posting.


@GracieAllen, the D750 does have a tilting LCD screen that is connected via a ribbon cable. Nikon lists the D750 as weather sealed, but there is also a note to avoid moisture behind the screen where the ribbon connector makes contact. I'm not sure how founded the concern is, I haven't heard of anyone having a failure as a result of moisture getting into the camera via that cable access path, but it was one of the items that gave me pause over the D750.

Thank goodness. I suddenly was thinking "does mine have an articulating screen and I never noticed it?"

You can use an SB-800 as a commander, to control off camera Nikon speedlights. The SU-800 works of course, and there are cheaper alternatives such as this one:

YONGNUO YN-622N-TX – Flash Controller for NIKON – Now Available! | FLASH HAVOC

Bikerbrent said:

Gee, if Nikon had put a built-in flash with commander mode on the D500, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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True, but then again using the built-in flash on my D600 and D200 as a commander is a real PITA in my experience, very fiddly to do. Using an SB-800 as the commander is so much easier, not fiddly hunting through menus, and you don't drain the camera battery, as the SB-800 has its own batteries. I have also found that an SB-800 mounted on the camera provides a far better quality of lighting than the built in flash on my other cameras. The offset is greater, giving better modeling, and the supplied diffusers provides a softer light. So whilst I was originally a critic of the absence of a built-in flash, I am now a supporter. The only advantage of the built-in flash is if you want to travel light (no pun intended), you don't have to carry a separate flash unit, and it does work as a fill in, in both senses of the phrase.

Bikerbrent said:

I agree, Nikon figures that if you can afford the overpriced D500, you can also afford their overpriced flash units and accessories. And lets not forget that Nikon apparently did everything possible to make 3rd party units incompatible. Look at the D500 battery situation, the D500 is NOT even compatible with their own older batteries!

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That's being a bit unfair. My D500 CAN use the battery from my D600, I've just tested it. And Nikon will exchange your old EN-EL15 batteries for the upgraded version FOR FREE, as long as you provide a receipt for your D500, which is generous of them. The D500 has different power requirements from the D7200 and D600, I suspect the long burst mode (high FPS for 20 seconds) requires a battery which can provide a high current for a longer duration than the old battery, so they needed to uprate the cells and/or internal circuitry.

I used the built-in flash for years with my D300 as a commander for my SB-800s. Worked perfectly, never fiddly, never had a problem. Did exactly the same thing when I got the D810. And continued doing it with the D7200..... So the change with the D500 is annoying, but not sufficient to prevent me from buying one.

What I would LIKE to do is have the camera control my SB-800s without having to add additional pieces or buy $600 flashes, or have to carry any additional junk or anything. BUT it APPEARS that ain't gonna happen any more...... I fer sure do NOT want to carry yet ANOTHER flash (certainly not ANOTHER SB-800) just to stick on the camera to control the off-camera ones (I always use the on-camera flash at the absolute MINIMUM 'cause I don't want the on-camera flash anywhere in my images). SO, if I just want to control SB-800s from the D500, do I just need an SU-800 clone?

OR, let's say I decide to move to 2016, and get a yongnuo YN-622n-TX... Am I correct that this thing DOES plug into the hot shoe on the camera so I don't HAVE to use one of the supplied cables? 'Cause if I have to plug it in where the remote camera release goes, where do I plug in the release? And what do I do with the 622? Let it sit on the ground or hang off the tripod? I found a picture that looks like there's a connector on the back to put it in the hot shoe... Right?

It appears there's now a YN685 with a receiver, which is fine... Will the 622n-TX ALSO control an SB-5000 should I completely take leave of my senses and spend ANOTHER fortune on strobes? Am I correct that what they keep calling "transceivers" are the receivers I plug into SB-800s to control them from the 622n-TX?

It LOOKS like it'd be cheaper to buy the 622 kit with a TX and a transceiver than to buy an SU-800 clone, and I'd have RADIO control...

I got to talk to a Nikon rep in Vegas while visiting a local camera store that he just happened to be visiting. He said the two primary reasons for no pop up flash were Real Estate for the Blue Tooth functionality and, the one Nikon doesn't admit to, is that they just didn't figure this particular model would sell very much with the segment of photographers for whom it would be an issue. Weatherproofing was also a consideration, but that is somewhat possible with a popup flash. Can't verify any of that, but the camera store owner said he had heard the same from other sources as well.

TKC_D500 said:

I got to talk to a Nikon rep in Vegas while visiting a local camera store that he just happened to be visiting. He said the two primary reasons for no pop up flash were Real Estate for the Blue Tooth functionality and, the one Nikon doesn't admit to, is that they just didn't figure this particular model would sell very much with the segment of photographers for whom it would be an issue. Weatherproofing was also a consideration, but that is somewhat possible with a popup flash. Can't verify any of that, but the camera store owner said he had heard the same from other sources as well.

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Well Nikon figured wrong. I bought the D7200 instead of the D500 to replace my aging D200 and a significant part of the reason was the D500 lack of the popup flash to control my SB-800. Couple that with I don't shoot a lot of sports and a price of double the D7200 and I am extremely happy with my decision. And you know what. I bet I am NOT alone in this decision!

I bought the D500 rather than the D7200, after much agonising due to the price, although the lack of a flash was a small concern. But the D500 has pro features for a pro market, things like high FPS, excellent AF, eyepiece shutter, electronic shutter, no mickey mouse modes, and so on. In retrospect I made the correct decision. What I do not understand is why the D600 (and the D7200 body is almost the same) has such a horrible body shape. I have small hands and it is horrible, very uncomfortable, someone with bigger hands would surely dislike it more.

The only time I really use off camera flash is doing product photos for my wife's jewelry business, and the lighting setup that I have used for a while on my D90 works perfectly on my D500. I bought it specifically to take pictures of birds and of my nephews playing baseball, so I'm also happy with my choice. It's like everything else, I bought the tool I needed.


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I came across the Shanny SN600Sn flash which is basically a Nikon SB910 lookalike in terms of features and build quality. What's more it's cheap, so the best way to control your flashes is probably with one of these, it'll work just like the build in flash, but with a more convenient on flash menu and buttons. Here is a review:

Shanny SN600sn Review vs Nikon SB-910 & Yongnuo YN-568

Ordered a kit with the 622n-TX and a transceiver in it, and a 685 strobe. Total was $175 and I should be able to use at least ONE of my SB-800s and the 685 together. We'll see how it goes.