My first Wedding ...Speeches & Cake Cutting

I thought we had a nice series of wedding information going here then it stopped . So to keep up the momentum lets look at speeches in the UK.

First is to establish if they are before or after the meal ...about 40% now go before the meal in the UK. But you need to be careful. If the meal is say 5 pm you may find the manager wants the couple all sat down by 4.30 because they have not moved the meal back to allow for the speeches. this will cut into your photo time so watch out .
Next is a good look at the top table ..name tags will tell you where the bride and groom are sitting.It should be the bride on the grooms left side but often they get it wrong. You need to stand on the brides side of the room or when the groom stands up you cannot see the bride. This assumes two photographers one at about 15 deg to the top table on the brides side and one with a front view.
Then have a word with the person next to the bride......If they move forward and sit with elbows on the table you will not see the bride

Try to encourage the giving of gifts to be over the front of the top table ...people trooping around the back makes for bad photos. Remove any tall table decorations that get in your eye line and watch for the manager who stands in the background with a bored face.
Lighting ...flash brollies etc are not necessary ..all you need is a small flash on top of the camera..if you don't have a flash flipper and the flash is in the shoe then only shoot landscape or you will get terrible side shadows very difficult and time consuming to remove in photoshop. If you have an old Nikon that goes to stupid high ISO when the flash is attached go buy a new one. The iso should go to 4x the base iso when the flash is turned on.
The Cake ....in the old days this was cut at the end of the meal but now its done on the dancefloor before the first dance.. So doing a posed one earlier is essential as the B &G will be partially undressed and drunk by the time of the disco.. Looking at the cake the B&G always stand on the right hand side ..bride in front of the groom and you don't need 4 hands to work a knife 2 is plenty ..If you put them on the left of the cake the brides right arm is towards you and pulls an awkward angle in the photo as she hold the knife..with the bride on the right her arm is between the couple ...I always use two knifes and then they can have a sword fight afterwards for a good photo....

I am interested to know of US variations as what happens there comes here ......

I'm not a professional photographer, and in spite of this, I have done one wedding reception, and a number of other events, on an informal basis.

One thing that is standing out to me about the OP is that it seems to contain a fair amount of instruction about how the wedding party should make accommodations for the photographer, to allow the photographer to get the best possible pictures.

My view of any kind of event photography is that it is not the job of those participating in the event to manage and arrange that event for the photographer's benefit; but rather the job of the photographer to capture the event as it naturally happens without regard to him.

Quite right bob if thats the style that is expected in your country ..I think as an old guy who learned the craft in the 80's and 90,s that if you don't influence the situation then you just end up with rubbish that's IMHO...People often say to me " your are particular arnt you" and the answer is that that is what I have been paid for ...If I don't take hold of it nobody will and you just get rubbish....usually they agree..
There is a big difference between weddings ...at rough weddings where they have not paid a great deal say $500 they are not co operative but where they have paid $2000 they are interested in getting it right.

PS....I thought I was there to get the best possible pictures ..depends on your definition of best.

The way I see it, such an event is not about the photographer and his work, but about the event itself. The photographer is there to chronicle the event, not to interfere with it.

Not being a wedding photographer so I could be totally wrong, but I think that both of you have valid points. As I see it ,the photographer is not in total charge of the wedding but should be able to take some sort of lead role when the situation calls for it. If I paid thousands of dollars for a photog and thousands more for the rest of the wedding, I wouldn't want it ruined by some pushy photog ordering everyone around.
Suggestions are fine and even welcomed. After all I would want the best shots for my money. A professional photog would probably know this already, and interfere with proceedings only when it is absolutely necessary.

The best way all the way around is for a collaboration.

I find it strange that people want to attack rather than say "in the US we do it this way"
Like I said originally its about what is expected in the country you work in ...Today in many its a fly on the wall just taking what is put in front of you but to me that's just an idle approach .Do you remind the groom not to obstruct my view of the ring with his fist when he puts it on ? In my view its negligent not to ....So the B&G comes down the aisle goes outside for a drink with the guests and then what ??? Do they do what they want for 2 hrs and I take junk pictures with the sun angle all wrong ? Or do I organise some groups followed by arty stuff down by the lake etc ???
NPS just sent me the magazine ..only one wedding photo in it from a famous ($5000) photographer ...not one bit of the picture was in focus...I used a 35mm at f1.4 ...... great photo would have made a great memory in 20 years but all mush and blurr ...just rubbish compared to what could have been.

I shoot between 40 and 50 weddings per year and have done so for a while now... 20+ years experience... Thats a lot of cake... lol

When it comes to the reception I will 'guide' the couple where to stand to cut the cake, I will suggest they start to cut, big smiles, have a kiss half way through and stand this side... I think that is all they need to know, but that is just me personally.

It makes no difference if the speeches are before, during or after a meal. I fail to see how this is even relevant. Most speeches are done behind a lectern. Besides getting a few shots with the speakers eyes looking up (not reading) - have to get the timing spot on I try and get an angle that shows the speaker at the lectern and the whole bridal table in the shot too to show any reactions of the bride and groom.

First dance, I ask the couple if there is anything specific I need to know - ie lifts or dips or twirls and roughly when they are so I can be as prepared as I can. I usually let them know where I will mainly be (so I get the best light for the B&G), so they know to 'point' that way if possible when they are doing said lifts or dips or twirls... but it doesn't always work out, they have enough to think about so I see my job as being able to be completely flexible and move swiftly and unobtrusively as to get the best images for the bride and groom.

Nice answer kev ...no lecterns in the UK ..just stand at the table where you were eating...speeches before or after does make a difference because the management does not want to move the meal back to allow for speeches so they can send the staff home early ... they don't have to hang around waiting to clear while the speeches are on. Less wages for part time staff.

A lot of hotels have a latest time for the meal because they have only one kitchen and want to get the wedding out the way so they can use the kitchen to open the restaurant.. Hence your photo time gets compressed ...brides problem they chose the hotel and ignored my advice.....

Moab Man ..there is no collaboration in the UK ..the car driver only wants to go home ,the minister has no interest other than in his bit and wants to lock the church ASAP ,the hotel manager is not interested because he makes no profit from the photographer (unless he has been bunged $200) and the disco guy is bored out of his skull ..so no its an uphill struggle

I still fail to see how speeches before, during or after a meal is relevant to photographs? You take a pic of someone standing - wherever that may be - next to tables happens here too. What difference does it make if they have already eaten or not??

Fat Fingers said:

I find it strange that people want to attack rather than say "in the US we do it this way"

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I'm from the US and agree with the comments offered by the others; however, I didn't see any attacking.

I've only done one wedding although I've been asked to do a few--it simply isn't my thing. As the others have mentioned, there tend to be several people hired who all have their own important jobs to perform...DJ, photographer, possibly a wedding planner, clergy, the people working at the venues, hair stylists, videographers, and possibly others (not to mention the pushy family members ). Everyone needs to do their share without taking center stage. As Moab Man said, it is a collaboration of everyone working together.

From my own observations at weddings, sometimes the wedding party gets a little sloshed before they even make it to the reception--not sure whether that happens where you are located--so it might be difficult to get cooperation from the married couple DURING the wedding/reception. But then, it IS their wedding day, and they should be left to enjoy their moment. After all, most likely they spent a lot of time beforehand making sure they chose the best people to do the jobs.

Before shooting the only wedding I've ever done, I came up with a list of photos I wanted to ensure happened. If there was any question about the possibility of not getting a shot, I asked well before the wedding took place. The host at the venue was FANTASTIC and made sure I was up front for all the photos--something that probably doesn't happen often.

But most of the pros who shoot weddings for a living either know how to pull them off despite the constant obstacles they face each and every time, or they really stink at what they do. Wait...let me rephrase that: Most photography pros who shoot for a living either are capable of pulling off their photo shoots despite the constant obstacles they face each and every time, or they really aren't pros. :beguiled: Ya gotta be flexible like Gumby--and that is a comment in general--not to anyone in particular. Just my humble opinion. It's that way no matter what occupation we hold.

Kev try this ...wedding at 3 pm ..service over by 3.3o 1.5 hours for photos till meal at 5 pm. If speeches before meal they start at 4.30 and you only have 1 hr for photos.

Hark ..all good comments...the couple have never been married before so don't know what to do ..someone must guide them and that's the photographers job. Its well established here that after the service it photo time ..I take about 8 family groups. Once they get the idea my wife can have a cue of 50 people wanting individual family photos. that's followed by B&G shots by the lake or whatever then inside for staircase/bedroom and off to the cake ...all done . Some couples love it and you can work easy but some exude an ora of unwillingness particularly from grooms who often don't want to get married/ want a cigarette / drink/ We call it bored groom syndrome .........
The most difficult to photograph are High Court Judges/policemen and factory workers ..anyone who tells people what to do all day or resents being told what to do by his boss ....Smokers are a pain in the ass add 30 min for fag breaks ....strange world.
Best weddings are Polish weddings where the photos of B&G are done 2 hrs before the service ..just a few groups and casuals after

And? Then you only have 1 hr for photo's.... it doesn't affect the way you shoot on the day... :S

If I have 5 hours or 1 or even 30 mins, I shoot the same way. They just get less....

I have never once had 'bored groom syndrome' as you call it - what type of clients are you getting?

Fat Fingers said:

Kev try this ...wedding at 3 pm ..service over by 3.3o 1.5 hours for photos till meal at 5 pm. If speeches before meal they start at 4.30 and you only have 1 hr for photos.

Hark ..all good comments...the couple have never been married before so don't know what to do ..someone must guide them and that's the photographers job. Its well established here that after the service it photo time ..I take about 8 family groups. Once they get the idea my wife can have a cue of 50 people wanting individual family photos. that's followed by B&G shots by the lake or whatever then inside for staircase/bedroom and off to the cake ...all done . Some couples love it and you can work easy but some exude an ora of unwillingness particularly from grooms who often don't want to get married/ want a cigarette / drink/ We call it bored groom syndrome .........
The most difficult to photograph are High Court Judges/policemen and factory workers ..anyone who tells people what to do all day or resents being told what to do by his boss ....Smokers are a pain in the ass add 30 min for fag breaks ....strange world.
Best weddings are Polish weddings where the photos of B&G are done 2 hrs before the service ..just a few groups and casuals after

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Not attacking or anything, but shouldn't all this have been planned out already? Is there not a wedding rehearsal in your country?

I have not been to a Polish wedding, but have been to a few Hungarian weddings, where food,drink and dancing are the main concerns. They sometimes last for 3 days. Those people know how to party!:encouragement:

I like kevs approach ....perhaps I try too hard ( ?) to get it right and the B&G should take more responsibility. The concept that its there day and they can do what they want ,often quoted by lazy hotel managers is a real disaster concept ...they never been married before so don't have any idea of the consequences of there actions .There are many weddings where the groom really does not want to get married/brides mother has made the whole thing too much of an event. Certainly most couples don't realize that it can be hard work having photos taken or understand the time it takes to get what they have booked. The bride in her big dress certainly wants to pose but the groom just wants it all over .

Oh I don't not try hard, it is just that on the day all the planning with the couple has been done and there are no real surprises. Everyone knows what is going on.

Prior to a wedding I meet with the B&G as many times as they think necessary - although this is usually only once as after this much experience, the meeting is pretty comprehensive... but we do liase via email and telephone often to make sure we are all on the same page and that they do know what to expect. If there is only 1 hour between the ceremony and reception, I and they know about this months and months in advance. I have bookings in 2018 and I already have day plans in place for those weddings - sure things might change a bit here and there, but that is what the consultations and emails and telephone calls are for.

I send through a timeline to the client 3 months out from their wedding. The week before their wedding, we talk and go through it all and then once it is all 100% confirmed, I send this same timeline to all the other vendors on the day that they are using. This ensures that we are all on the same page and that everyone knows where I and the B&G will be at any given time.

All I can say is that my hat's off to you guys who do weddings. I will stick with my wildlife, landscapes, weather, sunsets and still life shots. They may not always cooperate, but they don't talk back or argue. Ha!

cwgrizz said:

All I can say is that my hat's off to you guys who do weddings. I will stick with my wildlife, landscapes, weather, sunsets and still life shots. They may not always cooperate, but they don't talk back or argue. Ha!

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I have to agree with Walt, I will stick to critters and landscapes. I really appreciate what you all do.

hark said:

But then, it IS their wedding day, and they should be left to enjoy their moment. After all, most likely they spent a lot of time beforehand making sure they chose the best people to do the jobs.

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Fat Fingers said:

The concept that its there day and they can do what they want ,often quoted by lazy hotel managers is a real disaster concept ...they never been married before so don't have any idea of the consequences of there actions.

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I should have been more clear with my comment about letting them enjoy their moment.

I know the bride and groom (wedding party, parents, etc) need to be guided AT TIMES for photographs. What I meant by the comment is that no photographer should complain to them that they are missing shots because things aren't working in favor for the photographer. You sound as though you run into problems often enough but don't seem to be able to deal with them.

Here in the US, the photos of the wedding party tend to be taken between the wedding and the reception. That's the time those individuals should be guided. But during receptions, I don't see photographers driving the wedding party nuts by frequently posing them for this and that shot. That's what my comment about letting them enjoy their moment meant.