How do I get more flesh tones? (Warning:Newbie!)

Hiya,

Thanks for reading my newbie problem.

I am trying to shoot my first video and it's in a small room.

I have a 5x100w 5600k lightbox and additional 100w 5600k bulbs in workman lamps set up 4-5' from me in the stool with a Savage grey background.

White balance is Daylight (5600k) and I have to push my color fine balance to full-out amber-magenta ... in the lower right corner.... I made a composite image, sampling, of all the magenta amber combinations.

http://philaneed.com/magenta-amber-5600.png

My basic questions are:
• Am I doing something severely wrong such that I would need to push the amber-magenta all the way up? (And I believe this is Vivid color mode too... with pushed up contrast and saturation.)
• White balance ... I don't have a white card but I've seen videos say that if I was blue-green before the adjustments I could get a very light blue card and set my white balance to that. But rather than print a dozen color sheets from my HP color printer, which can't be perfectly consistent, I wanted to make all kinds of blue color jpgs in Photoshop, 'import' them to my Nikon card, and choose them on the camera.

(Boy,,, I wish there was a 'photo-sample' mode where it took a hundred of so sample shots at all kinds of combinations, with captions, so you could simply sort through them and easily get close to exactly what you want.)

Thank you.

Randy

Why not just set a custom white balance? Not set the camera to 5600K, set a specific color temp that gives you the color rendition you want.

randzman said:

I have a 5x100w 5600k lightbox and additional 100w 5600k bulbs in workman lamps set up 4-5' from me in the stool with a Savage grey background.

Click to expand...

Don't be very trusting of the advertised daylight colors (5600K). The two types of light may not be the same thing.

• White balance ... I don't have a white card but I've seen videos say that if I was blue-green before the adjustments I could get a very light blue card and set my white balance to that. But rather than print a dozen color sheets from my HP color printer, which can't be perfectly consistent, I wanted to make all kinds of blue color jpgs in Photoshop, 'import' them to my Nikon card, and choose them on the camera.

Click to expand...

That is not the normal white balance concept, my bet is that who ever said that blue thing had absolutely no clue.

The idea of the white card is that it is neutral, a pure white that has no color cast in it. But it picks up a tint in colored light. Then the white balance tool clicks it, and removes any color cast found there, and makes it actually be balanced (neutral, all three RGB channels to be the same numbers, which is actual white (which removes any tint on it, no longer tinted). You place that white card in the same light in the same situation as your video will be, and then this is the correct correction.

If you clicked a blue card, it should remove its blue color, and also remove any color cast on it. Which is something extra, when all you want to do is remove the color cast. White is what works (or any neutral gray that is not too dark, but NOT blue).

My video experience is with Cyberlink PowerDirector (video editor), and it has such a white balance tool, and it works good. I use it with a Porta Brace White Balance card ($5, 5x7 inches, at B&H, and it is white).

Or what Sparky said... but you still need a white card. The Nikon camera does this too, preset White balance, by filling the viewfinder with a white card (or paper). The camera has a mode to do this same concept, called Preset Manual. It is described in detail on page 72 of the D7200 REFERENCE Manual, which is available free at

Nikon | Download center | D3200

The Reference manual is big full size complete manual, much more info than the skimpy User Manual that ships with D3200. And, the PDF is searchable.

Or just using a letter size sheet of cheap white copy paper works pretty well, it is pretty white, and works as well as any alternate choice (the real card is more precisely accurate - but there won't be a big difference - day and night better than no try at all).

The card needs to fill the camera viewfinder, and exact focus may not be possible that close, but focus doesn't matter - it simply should just fill the viewfinder with white (it's about color). Of course, you use it on location, WHERE YOUR SUBJECT IS, in the same light you are tying to balance. This gives you a white balance setting that makes that white card actually be white in that light. Then your video should have no more color cast (until you do something different to change the situation).

Totally accurate white balance can be a real pleasure, but it can also be a bit clinical at times. Sometimes we might like skin tones to have a slight extra pink tint.

I use this and love it.

Amazon.com : ExpoImaging ExpoDisc 77mm Digital White Balance Filter - Neutral : Camera Lens Color Correction And Compensation Filters : Camera & Photo

If it were me, I'd use Capture NX2 to adjust a test .NEF image to exactly what I want, then see what the color temp was set to. I'd then set my camera to that color temp.

Wayne, clear, thank you ... I will run with this info.

I did set (shoot) the white balance using a white index card (the whitest thing I could find) but it apparently isn't white enough. Tomorrow I'll get a sheet of the whitest paper availale at Kinkos and see what happens.

"Sometimes we might like skin tones to have a slight extra pink tint." (exactly...)

Moab Man said:

I use this and love it.

Amazon.com : ExpoImaging ExpoDisc 77mm Digital White Balance Filter - Neutral : Camera Lens Color Correction And Compensation Filters : Camera & Photo

Click to expand...

Fascinating ... but

"As other reviews have already said, this thing is accurate and convenient when dealing with mixed lighting or when you just want a dead-on white balance.
For me, it's greatest strength isn't actually the fact that it gives you an accurate white balance - there are other products that can do it, too. It's about how FAST it is to use this."

I don't need fast.. or have mixed lighting....or need super precision... just trying to look normal (as evidenced that I don't like in the photo example)... thanks for posting that though ... one day I'll need it !

One thing I don't think I have seen in the comments is if you have a color balanced monitor. They don't come that way and you can't adjust them just by looking at them. Many of us here use something like this Datacolor Spyder4PRO - Advanced Color Calibration - Datacolor Imaging Solutions or their updated model.

If you don't have that or think you need it upload a video here that you think it good and we can look at it in a lot of different monitors and tell you if maybe your monitor it the problem before you go to a lot of trouble fixing something that is not broken.

Just upload to youtube or whatever video service you use and post it here

randzman said:

Wayne, clear, thank you ... I will run with this info.

I did set (shoot) the white balance using a white index card (the whitest thing I could find) but it apparently isn't white enough. Tomorrow I'll get a sheet of the whitest paper availale at Kinkos and see what happens.

Click to expand...

Two thoughts. extremely white papers, like photo papers, possibly have whitners added that are said might cause a blue tint in a white balance situation. I've never seen it, but it is said. Cheap copy paper works pretty well, maybe the better of those with brightness of around 92... But a $5 white balance card is also a possibility.

And you might try a white balance test with your two light types in use individually... only one type at a time. If two colors (my bet), we cannot balance mixed colors. If pretty close to the same, no big problem, but any white balance compromise simply makes both be wrong, not right for either. We might make one mixed spot be right, but the lighting distances being different means only that one spot is corrected, and all the rest of the scene is a crap shoot.

WayneF said:

Two thoughts. extremely white papers, like photo papers, possibly have whitners added that are said might cause a blue tint in a white balance situation. I've never seen it, but it is said. Cheap copy paper works pretty well, maybe the better of those with brightness of around 92... But a $5 white balance card is also a possibility.

And you might try a white balance test with your two light types in use individually... only one type at a time. If two colors (my bet), we cannot balance mixed colors. If pretty close to the same, no big problem, but any white balance compromise simply makes both be wrong, not right for either. We might make one mixed spot be right, but the lighting distances being different means only that one spot is corrected, and all the rest of the scene is a crap shoot.

Click to expand...

All the lights are the same bulbs.

I read a bit more about white balance and the context of using a light blue card I noted before ... which was when you have a photo with a blue cast... is it correct that in such a case I could reset the white balance using a light blue card and the camera would then remove some blue (whatever is found on the card... which won't be the perfect amount that the photo had, but you'll be closer.

What I don't understand is why you need to take a photo outside the camera, to Photoshop, and find the new 'correct' temperature to set the camera to.... why doesn't the camera have several factory photos and when you shoot a new white balance it lets you, interactively, adjust the built-in photos traits ... kelvin, RGBAmber, C/Brightness, etc... the camera screen is acting as Photoshop so you can get it right on the camera, HDMI a large display if you want, and there you go ... quick, easy accurate.

randzman said:

All the lights are the same bulbs.

I read a bit more about white balance and the context of using a light blue card I noted before ... which was when you have a photo with a blue cast... is it correct that in such a case I could reset the white balance using a light blue card and the camera would then remove some blue (whatever is found on the card... which won't be the perfect amount that the photo had, but you'll be closer.

Click to expand...

OK, great on the bulbs, I misunderstood.

The WB concept is to include a KNOWN neutral color (white or light gray), which specifically has equal RGB colors, called neutral, no color cast present. Clicking that known neutral color tells the WB tool that "this spot is neutral, make it be neutral", meaning no color cast. And it does, and we like that.

If you pick a spot of color blue or red or green (not equal RGB colors) it will also make that spot neutral (or try to, it may not have sufficient range). But that seems meaningless, because the tool expects a known neutral color there.

If you know your picture is blue, then sure, you can just remove blue until it looks better to you. But to try to use and depend on some unknown blue card seems a distraction. A blue card in a blue light will be made white, but overcorrected, doubly corrected, and your picture will go orange. Because obviously, the blue card should look blue in a corrected picture.

What I don't understand is why you need to take a photo outside the camera, to Photoshop, and find the new 'correct' temperature to set the camera to.... why doesn't the camera have several factory photos and when you shoot a new white balance it lets you, interactively, adjust the built-in photos traits ... kelvin, RGBAmber, C/Brightness, etc... the camera screen is acting as Photoshop so you can get it right on the camera, HDMI a large display if you want, and there you go ... quick, easy accurate.

Click to expand...

It is not about some standard photo. It is 100% about the color of the light that your current subject is in. The camera has no clue what color of light is in your scene. Auto WB tries, but it does not know either... it just hopes your scene is "average" and should have some average color. Recent better Auto WB tools have safeguard limits to not make blue sky or green forest scenes come out white. But Auto WB, while improving, is far from perfect. It's a dumb computer, with no clue what the scene is, or what color the light is.

The camera does have "standard" incandescent, Daylight, Cloudy, Shade, etc WB processes, where it does correct for the expected light color there. But there are many different shades of all of these, so it is quite imprecise. We simply never know the lights color temperature any better, we cannot judge it by eye (with possibly the one exception of direct bright sunlight... but there is also hazy, cloudy, shade, sunset, etc, etc).

So the WB solution is to provide a KNOWN neutral color, and to then correct it to actually be neutral (neutral meaning, equal RGB components in the color it appears to show in the current light). Make the neutral color actually show to be neutral, and there will be no color cast left.

Thank you again!... good info, and well expressed.

... but I'd prefer not correct in in post... I'm making a video, it'll take a long time to process.

And perhaps you don't understand what I meant in my 'why doesn't the camera have several factory photos and when you shoot a new white ... " ... I'm saying the camera should take the info from your white balance, show you how a built-in photo would look with that setting, and let you interactively see how different K's would look- the camera DOES know the color of light in my scene.

randzman said:

Thank you again!... good info, and well expressed.

... but I'd prefer not correct in in post... I'm making a video, it'll take a long time to process.

And perhaps you don't understand what I meant in my 'why doesn't the camera have several factory photos and when you shoot a new white ... " ... I'm saying the camera should take the info from your white balance, show you how a built-in photo would look with that setting, and let you interactively see how different K's would look- the camera DOES know the color of light in my scene.

Click to expand...

The camera does have the Preset Manual method described before. In the scenes colored light, you shoot a neutral white card filling the viewfinder and let the camera Auto WB make that card in that light be neutral (following the Preset Manual instructions mentioned before). Then using that preset WB, you shoot your shots, and it should come out neutral, until you change something.

Again, it is not about any standard picture, it is about the color of light in your scene.

WayneF said:

Again, it is not about any standard picture, it is about the color of light in your scene.

Click to expand...

... why can't a camera act like a mini-photoshop so you don't have to take the photo or video sample repeatedly to figure out the adjustments after the white balance is set by whatever means.

randzman said:

... why can't a camera act like a mini-photoshop so you don't have to take the photo or video sample repeatedly to figure out the adjustments after the white balance is set by whatever means.

Click to expand...

I can't help you, it simply is not that way.

But it is because the camera has no clue what color the light is. The camera also has no clue what color the subject is, or even what the subject is. A very dumb computer, and it only presents a result, but no clue what it is, or what the result ought to be. I suppose the cameras could eventually be designed to build in a color meter, but they don't. A Sekonic color meter costs $1700, more than many cameras.

Same problem since Day One. When we shot color negative film, the processing lab had sophisticated equipment and a skilled operator who took care of most color and exposure corrections for us. Most of us didn't even realize it could be an issue. We did have blue flash bulbs to sort of match incandescent light, but many of us did not bother to use them, because the lab would usually take care of it for us, to help it some.

But with digital, there is no lab or operator, and that becomes our job to do. A large group of novices do imagine their little camera ought to always get it right, but they don't have experience yet to realize that simply ain't gonna happen.

But humans do have the big advantage of having a human brain (and some are willing to use it). A camera or meter or computer cannot tell a black cat in a coal mine from a white polar bear on the snow. Both will come out middle gray. But humans instantly can tell and know. We usually know what it ought to look like. Or at least, how we want it to look. So we have to help the dumb camera computer.

WayneF said:

A camera or meter or computer cannot tell a black cat in a coal mine from a white polar bear on the snow.

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That is indeed the final word on this subject!

LOL!

Good stuff!

I just use a sheet of a4 printer paper to set my custom white balance and have had no oroblems

Also you can never depend on a printer to color balance your camera.


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