Any tips appreciated - dance recital photography

Hi everybody,
I'm new to this site and already grateful for any tips you might be able to give me. I own a Nikon D800 and love doing portraits. The school I work for uses some of my pictures for the website and other publications. I have taken pictures of plays for example in the past. My problem is that they have now "recruited" me to shoot a dance recital. It's hard for them to understand what a different type of photography that is . . . Anyway, I'm doing it and I have been getting some conflicting advice as to what setting would be best to use. I don't feel comfortable doing it on manual because as I said, I am not familiar with this type of photography and there are just too many variables. Somebody who works at the store where I purchased my camera told me to shoot on shutter priority. Somebody else said aperture priority. I called Nikon and they said go manual . . . You get the idea. So while I know that I am opening myself up to the same issue here, if you have experience with dance photography (low light, lots of movement, no flash allowed), I would really appreciate any tips!
Thanks a million
Sincerely,
Claudia

claudia said:

Hi everybody,
I'm new to this site and already grateful for any tips you might be able to give me. I own a Nikon D800 and love doing portraits. The school I work for uses some of my pictures for the website and other publications. I have taken pictures of plays for example in the past. My problem is that they have now "recruited" me to shoot a dance recital. It's hard for them to understand what a different type of photography that is . . . Anyway, I'm doing it and I have been getting some conflicting advice as to what setting would be best to use. I don't feel comfortable doing it on manual because as I said, I am not familiar with this type of photography and there are just too many variables. Somebody who works at the store where I purchased my camera told me to shoot on shutter priority. Somebody else said aperture priority. I called Nikon and they said go manual . . . You get the idea. So while I know that I am opening myself up to the same issue here, if you have experience with dance photography (low light, lots of movement, no flash allowed), I would really appreciate any tips!
Thanks a million
Sincerely,
Claudia

Click to expand...

Before I give you any kind of detailed answer, let me ask you a couple things... First of all, how well do you understand the Exposure Triangle?

And I mean *REALLY* understand it.

I ask this because, 1) I don't know how well you understand those concepts and 2), because exposure, really, is what lies at the core of your question. I could give you some "canned" suggestions on what settings to use, but if those settings didn't work in your exact situation, it sounds like you'd be at a loss as to what to do next. Would you say that sounds accurate? I'm asking this because really, there are no "secret recipes" you can apply in these sorts of situations to get guaranteed results; each method suggested to you (Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Manual) has its pluses and minuses and I could use any of them and get good results. The key is in understanding and applying knowledge of exposure and that means really understanding the Exposure Triangle. Armed with that knowledge you would be able to determine for yourself what the best settings would be and how to adapt, on the fly, as needed so you would get consistently good results.

I've shot a couple of dance events and my simple answer is set ISO as high as you can (maybe Auto ISO max 6400), shutter speed appropriate to the movement (1/640 or higher) and aperture according to desired DOF. Adjust to get proper exposure.

Depending on the lighting, this might end up as 1/1000, f/2.8 @ ISO 6400 or some variation with SS and aperture adjustments.

My advice for whatever it's worth:

1. Avoid using a variable long lens such as a 70-200mm. Use a Prime! Despite what some may claim variable long lenses introduce noise and muddiness. Then there is the reduction of larger opening f-stops: you can loose 1 to 3 f-stops depending on the quality of the lens. This essentially 'darkens' your room.

2. Test your camera at various ISOs to determine just how much noise you find acceptable. And set you camera to that! Once again, folk might claim you can shoot a D800 at 6400ISO with no noise. I guess I'm picky because I find anything over 1600 to be 'putting Leopard spots on a white Persian cat'. (not going to argue this)

3. DoF is usually not a problem since dance recitals normally work against a blank 'scrim'. If so, crank the aperture open as far as you can. If you have a patterned background you have to decide how much light you can 'lose' to increase the depth.

4. Bribe the light guy in the booth to jack the light levels 20%. Every little bit he gives you will allow a faster shutter speed. The bribe has to be good though since he has the 'tutu mother' breathing down his neck!

5. Positioning ... attend a couple of dress rehearsals and figure out their patterns and where you need to be to reduce 'apparent' movement (which allows you more room to play with the shutter speed) No chance at sitting in one place. Dance requires you to move, move, move also!

6. Hmmm. Lens, ISO, Aperture, positioning ... yeppers, that about covers it. Oh: pray that they don't ask again! LOL!

So, that is my advice. (Guys, send out the lynching party ... but I've got a head start ... )

ADDED LATER: PS: In fact I would just do the whole shoot in the final dress rehearsal. Lights can be up, dancers can be posed, and the 'tutu mom' will most likely be drunk.

lorenbrothers said:

Avoid using a variable long lens such as a 70-200mm ... Despite what some may claim variable long lenses introduce noise and muddiness.

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Ummm... What?

Would you care to back this up because my Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD, just for one example, is one of the cleanest, sharpest lenses I've ever owned or shot with. I've been shooting ballet dancers with it, specifically, for months now (not that subject matter has anything to do with this) and it's been nothing short of amazing. Further, and just generally speaking, the 70-200mm is the darling lens of portrait and wedding photographers the world over.

LOL ... see ... not going to argue with you Paul ... not this week anyways. Just saying I wouldn't use one (and all professional photographers would agree on the virtues of a prime) and that is my choice isn't it?

(Isn't it wonderful we live in a world where folk can have opinions and have the right to voice them? )

lorenbrothers said:

LOL ... see ... not going to argue with you Paul ... not this week anyways. Just saying I wouldn't use one (and all professional photographers would agree on the virtues of a prime) and that is my choice isn't it?

(Isn't it wonderful we live in a world where folk can have opinions and have the right to voice them? )

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I'm not taking exception to your statement about the virtues of prime lenses, I'm taking exception to your statement zoom lenses introduce muddiness and noise. You stated that as a fact and I'm asking you to back it up.

In my experience, a prime at F1.8 serves the best. As suggested attend a few rehearsals, and choose the best location for the prime focal length you will use - either 50 or 85 depending on the stage width. The lower the ISO the cleaner is the image. Similarly the faster the lens the faster an your speed be.

I have shot a couple of dance recitals with my D3300 and 35mm F1.8 at F1.8 at ISO 100 or 400. If the lights are bright enough, you can use higher speeds 1/250 to 1/500 at ISO 400. That is high enough to stop all but most atheletic action.

http://nikonites.com/d3300/32866-indian-dance-recital-colours-galore.html
http://nikonites.com/d3300/24530-indian-wedding-wedding.html

In my experience, a 24-70 and/or 70-200 gives the best combination of flexibility/fast aperture. You never know when you want a shot of the whole group or just an individual. Tough to do with a prime.

aroy said:

In my experience, a prime at F1.8 serves the best. As suggested attend a few rehearsals, and choose the best location for the prime focal length you will use - either 50 or 85 depending on the stage width. The lower the ISO the cleaner is the image. Similarly the faster the lens the faster an your speed be.

I have shot a couple of dance recitals with my D3300 and 35mm F1.8 at F1.8 at ISO 100 or 400. If the lights are bright enough, you can use higher speeds 1/250 to 1/500 at ISO 400. That is high enough to stop all but most atheletic action.

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I could shoot pretty much any subject you could name with pretty much any lens on the planet but, that being said...

"Damn this zoom lens with it's flexible, variable focal lengths that allow me to cleanly isolate my subject one second, and then zoom out to add context to my shot the next AND allowing me to do it all with a fast f2.8 aperture!" said no photographer. Ever.
.....

Horoscope Fish said:

I could shoot pretty much any subject you could name with pretty much any lens on the planet but, that being said...

"Damn this zoom lens with it's flexible, variable focal lengths that allow me to cleanly isolate my subject one second, and then zoom out to add context to my shot the next AND allowing me to do it all with a fast f2.8 aperture!" said no photographer. Ever.
.....

Click to expand...

Shoot. Name JUST ONE professional that would rely on a 70-200 2.8 in a similar situation. YOU CAN'T!!!

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Because there are thousands upon thousands, I'm sure. Naming JUST ONE doesn't qualify.

for example......

I never did a dance recital but would like to in the future. I have shot alot of concerts and an thinking there maybe be similar lighting. With the concerts a few things worth mentioning that may be of help is that ive used both zoom & prime lenses with zoom that were 24-70mm,70-200mm & 120-300mm Canon & Sigma lens with good results as long as the lenses are a constant f 2.8

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Continuing from post 13. 2nd thing worth mentioning that helped with concerts and may improve success rate with recidles is useing continuous shooting mode which will increase the chances of getting sharp images. 3rd thing worth mention is the use of a monopod. If you can afford image stabilized lenses than you won't need a monopod but still only if using constant f 2.8 zoom lenses. When I bought my lenses I couldn't afford both fast f 2.8 that were also image stabilized so I opted for fast f 2.8 without IS (because it helps freeze the subject) & then used a monopod to reduce any blur caused by camera shake. The monopod was the single most important thing I did that radicaly improved the amount % of keepers. And even in crouded concert venue the monopod never presented any issues with space or interference with others. Plus it saved a lot of energy & kept the camera near my face for quick response.

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