Autofocus Question

I get very confused with the autofocus choices so want to know if I am doing it right

With my Tamron 150-600mm (shooting birds) I usually use shutter priority as I want a fastish shutter speed. I set my focus to "focus tracking with lock-on" and then leave it at "normal" when the next menu screen comes up. Is this the setting I should be using? Does this setting then override all other autofocus settings eg AF-S & AF-C? You can tell I have no idea here about this autofocus stuff but I find I cannot work fast enough to even give manual focus a try with birds.

I have been using back button focus with my D7100 and it works great with birds. Click and let go for stationary birds and hold it down for bird in flight. so you get AF-S and AF-C without doing anything. Also I have been shooting manual with birds. I set the shutter speed at 1250 or so and the aperture at F8 or higher depending on where I am. I then set the ISO on auto and let it handle the difference.

Here are two from today shot that way.

Don Kuykendall said:

I have been using back button focus [snip] [/snip] Also I have been shooting manual with birds. I set the shutter speed at 1250 or so and the aperture at F8 or higher depending on where I am. I then set the ISO on auto and let it handle the difference.

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I'm mostly doing it this way as well.
With birds in flight you will always need AF-C but you might manage AF-S with a stationary bird that isn't moving much.
Focus tracking with lock on is a toughie ... some togs claim that they get better AF results by having it off, the jury is still out on that for me but there is a feeling that it will keep the focus on track. However if the bird is in a group, e.g. feeding kites, or there are other objects (tree, house etc) in view, then without lock on the AF may get confused.

Vixen said:

I get very confused with the autofocus choices so want to know if I am doing it right

With my Tamron 150-600mm (shooting birds) I usually use shutter priority as I want a fastish shutter speed. I set my focus to "focus tracking with lock-on" and then leave it at "normal" when the next menu screen comes up. Is this the setting I should be using? Does this setting then override all other autofocus settings eg AF-S & AF-C? You can tell I have no idea here about this autofocus stuff but I find I cannot work fast enough to even give manual focus a try with birds.

Click to expand...

"Focus Tracking" with "Lock On" are two things that work together to maintain focus on a moving target.

Focus Tracking means the subject will be tracked, even while moving, and "Lock On" prevents focus from choosing a different subject. Say your bird is in flight and you're panning the shot waiting for the decisive moment. Focus Tracking is maintaining focus on your pretty birdie as it moves around in your frame. Then, suddenly, another, great big ugly-ass bird enters the frame... Heavens!! Will your AF get confused and want to focus on this new, bigger, ugly-ass bird; thus spoiling your shot of pretty birdie?

No! No it won't! Because you have wisely engaged "Focus Tracking" *with* "Lock On" ensuring not only your moving target will be tracked as it moves in-frame, but also that focus intent will be "locked on" to the specific target you've chosen and too the exclusion of anything else that enters the frame. Without "Lock On" that big, ugly-ass bird flying into your perfectly framed shot could steal focus lock away from pretty birdie and spoil everything. But not today, ugly-ass bird... Not today, thanks to patented Nikon Focus Tracking with Lock On technology.

*fanfare of trumpets*

....

Horoscope Fish said:

"Focus Tracking" with "Lock On" are two things that work together to maintain focus on a moving target.

Focus Tracking means the subject will be tracked, even while moving, and "Lock On" prevents focus from choosing a different subject. Say your bird is in flight and you're panning the shot waiting for the decisive moment. Focus Tracking is maintaining focus on your pretty birdie as it moves around in your frame. Then, suddenly, another, great big ugly-ass bird enters the frame... Heavens!! Will your AF get confused and want to focus on this new, bigger, ugly-ass bird; thus spoiling your shot of pretty birdie?

No! No it won't! Because you have wisely engaged "Focus Tracking" *with* "Lock On" ensuring not only your moving target will be tracked as it moves in-frame, but also that focus intent will be "locked on" to the specific target you've chosen and too the exclusion of anything else that enters the frame. Without "Lock On" that big, ugly-ass bird flying into your perfectly framed shot could steal focus lock away from pretty birdie and spoil everything. But not today, ugly-ass bird... Not today, thanks to patented Nikon Focus Tracking with Lock On technology.

*fanfare of trumpets*

....

Click to expand...

This is how I understood tracking focus with lock on to behave, and why I chose to try it. My tracking BIF is a bit sketchy but it does seem to work OK (drains the battery quicker it seems so it must be working ). I just wanted to know if it was the RIGHT setting to be using.

So otherwise, if I don't use tracking with lock on I should use AF-C? I can't be constantly changing too many settings while I am out shooting. The way my brain works that would be disastrous. As it is now I have trouble remembering to change settings between shooting one way and another

Don Kuykendall said:

I have been using back button focus with my D7100 and it works great with birds. Click and let go for stationary birds and hold it down for bird in flight. so you get AF-S and AF-C without doing anything. Also I have been shooting manual with birds. I set the shutter speed at 1250 or so and the aperture at F8 or higher depending on where I am. I then set the ISO on auto and let it handle the difference.

Click to expand...

Everyone seems to do it differently. I decided to go with "shutter priority" after reading how a professional bird photographer sets his camera. He gets some excellent shots. I do feel however, that sometimes I could use a smaller aperture than that selected by the camera, so I am considering going back to manual settings. Not sure tho at this stage.

Vixen said:

So otherwise, if I don't use tracking with lock on I should use AF-C?

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With a bird in flight you should always be using AF-C - personally with birds/wildlife my camera is rarely off AF-C.

photogramps said:

With a bird in flight you should always be using AF-C - personally with birds/wildlife my camera is rarely off AF-C.

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OK...so as per my original question, if I use "focus tracking with lock on" I should also be in AF-C? or does focus tracking over-ride AF-C?

I use the back-button with AF-C and have it set to group when doing fast movers. I switch to single center point when the light is low to slightly speed up the AF or when trying to shoot birds in trees. Group tends to pick the branches if you're unlucky.

If I release the back-button, I focus lock automatically.

Vixen said:

Everyone seems to do it differently. I decided to go with "shutter priority" after reading how a professional bird photographer sets his camera. He gets some excellent shots. I do feel however, that sometimes I could use a smaller aperture than that selected by the camera, so I am considering going back to manual settings. Not sure tho at this stage.

Click to expand...

My keeper rate for BIF was zero till recently. Now I have changed the settings as follows and getting some keepers
. Use Auto ISO and set the range where I want - 100 to 800
. Set minimum speed at 1/500 or 1/1000 depending on what I shoot - birds or bees
. Use Aperture priority for DOF

Now when I do a burst the shots come quite in focus with AF-C and tolerable exposure (which can easily be tweaked in post). I have found that in high contrast situation Spot Metering gives the best results.

Vixen said:

OK...so as per my original question, if I use "focus tracking with lock on" I should also be in AF-C? or does focus tracking over-ride AF-C?

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You must be in AF-C - Focus tracking is a setting that helps AF-C to do its job in the way you want it to.

photogramps said:

You must be in AF-C - Focus tracking is a setting that helps AF-C to do its job in the way you want it to.

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OK...That's cool coz I use AF-C most of the time. I went and read the book again, and understand things better now than the last time I read it Thanks Photogramps

You have to find what suits you,i use AFC, single center point, aperture priority.
These settings where arrived at after trying 3D tracking, multi point,auto iso ect as settings that i could work with,to change settings i need to put my reading glasses on which in most of the wildlife situations ime in is not easy,i understand center single to be the most responsive in the lower light situations and as far as i can see with the D7100 thumb wheel control it doesn't matter which you choose auto shutter or auto aperture as one changes the other any way,i go with auto shutter as there is a limit to what the lens can open up to.

I know your question was just focus but thought i would explain why i do it this way,the perfect match would be auto iso but i cant deal with the noise as well as others so would rather not have too much of it.

mikew said:

You have to find what suits you,i use AFC, single center point, aperture priority.
These settings where arrived at after trying 3D tracking, multi point,auto iso ect as settings that i could work with,to change settings i need to put my reading glasses on which in most of the wildlife situations ime in is not easy,i understand center single to be the most responsive in the lower light situations and as far as i can see with the D7100 thumb wheel control it doesn't matter which you choose auto shutter or auto aperture as one changes the other any way,i go with auto shutter as there is a limit to what the lens can open up to.

I know your question was just focus but thought i would explain why i do it this way,the perfect match would be auto iso but i cant deal with the noise as well as others so would rather not have too much of it.

Click to expand...

I use auto ISO also but I don't like noise much either, so I have set it to stay below 2000, which is still WAY higher than my ideal. Thanks for sharing your settings and I totally GET the reading glasses bit coz that is also me. Most times I can work without glasses but in some lights it is impossible even if I light up the LCD setting window, and if is accidentally change a setting then I'm lost without the glasses I find carrying them a pain so have the cheap pharmacy magnifiers coz it's better to lose a $5 pair (and I have often left them on the ground after putting them down)

I never used the auto-ISO setting on the D3300 because it could go from fine to disastrous pretty fast but now that I have better ISO performance I'm making more and more use of it. It makes life much easier and while I can fix most noise, I can never fix motion blur.

In the past I used to be bothered by the noise itself but now I value that noise in regards to what I can do in LR. When you apply selective sharpening or blurring, you can go pretty far up with ISO before it ruins a shot.

I find a lot depends on the subject and crop factor,a full frame image from most cameras at 3000 iso can be tamed,a hefty crop on the other hand say a small bird you cant get close to is a different matter,the high ISO noise can so easily destroy detail which noise reduction can never put back, because it was never there.
I know a noisy sharp shot is well worth having but a sharp smeared detail (through noise removal) shot isnt.

mikew said:

I find a lot depends on the subject and crop factor,a full frame image from most cameras at 3000 iso can be tamed,a hefty crop on the other hand say a small bird you cant get close to is a different matter,the high ISO noise can so easily destroy detail which noise reduction can never put back, because it was never there.
I know a noisy sharp shot is well worth having but a sharp smeared detail (through noise removal) shot isnt.

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You're right in that. I had to delete reasonable shots only because when cropping, I could not recover the detail.

Yet often even when looking bad at first it still is usable. That B&W shot I took today was 3200 ISO and one stop underexposed. In the light I had I barely reached 1/80s even with those settings. When I looked at it, the dark parts were pretty noisy and I feared I had to kill the shot. But with some noise reduction and sharpening using the mask, tweaked detail and pixel settings, I could fix most. I also brushed in some exposure changes here and there to lighten up certain parts. That too often makes noise less visible.

The problem with noise and sharpening in LR is that when we use the sliders, they can do a good job for the one shot but don't work well for the other. The noise filter blurs and in that can compromise sharpening. Even when using a mask, they work indiscriminately. You fix one part at the expense of another. When using the brush, you can address every part individually. You sharpen what needs to be sharpened and blur what needs to be blurred.

It won't help us recover detail that is lost but when it's merely obscured, it works fine.

Even I find that noise is a problem when I crop to 800x800 pixels for distant birds and small insects. In such case even shadows at 100 ISO show a lot of noise. Reducing the sharpness with NR helps but then the image gets a bit soft. Now on images which occupy most of the frame ISO 400 and times ISO 800 can be tamed in post.

I did a test to check the differences myself.

I took 3 shots at 3 different f/settings using ISO 6400. One a stop underexposed, one correct and one a stop overexposed. I cropped them to 100%, adjusted all to the correct exposure and disabled all noise reduction and sharpening.
Export without sharpening.

f/4:


f/7.1:


f/11:


As you can see it is not so much the ISO that triggers the noise but the light. High ISO slightly overexposed is pretty decent.