Bulb ramping impossible with a Nikon? Has anyone considered...

benz145

New member
I bought a D5100 for astrophotography and I'm really happy with my purchase. However, I've been enjoying making time lapse sequences and I want to do one from Sunset to stars. After some research or the technique to make this happen, I've learned about something called 'bulb ramping' which apparently reads the light from the camera before each shot and adjusts the settings appropriately. In my research I seem to have found that bulb ramping is impossible on a Nikon camera. Is this true? (say it ain't so!). This is a real shame; had I known this before purchasing the D5100 I would have gone to a Cannon, which apparently comes with built-in bulb ramping software.

From what I've read, the problem is that there is no fine-grain exposure control on Nikon cameras (I suppose this refers to the 3", 4", 5", 6", 8", 10", 13", etc. exposure settings). But anyone who has used long exposure photography should know that the Bulb mode on Nikons let you leave the shutter open for however long you hold down the button.

If the issue is that the camera can't be controller through software to have fine-grain exposure length adjustments, has anyone considered making a hardware addon that would read the light settings from the camera and then physically press the shutter button for the desired length of time while the camera is in Bulb mode? I did a quick test with Bulb mode and it looks like the camera can do discrete exposure in increments as small as 0.1 seconds (possibly less, but Windows only showed me down to a single decimal place.

Maybe I don't understand the real issue here... someone has probably though of this before and there's likely an issue with such a solution but for now I'm not sure what it would be. Thoughts?
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I bought a D5100 for astrophotography and I'm really happy with my purchase. However, I've been enjoying making time lapse sequences and I want to do one from Sunset to stars. After some research or the technique to make this happen, I've learned about something called 'bulb ramping' which apparently reads the light from the camera before each shot and adjusts the settings appropriately. In my research I seem to have found that bulb ramping is impossible on a Nikon camera. Is this true? (say it ain't so!). This is a real shame; had I known this before purchasing the D5100 I would have gone to a Cannon, which apparently comes with built-in bulb ramping software.

From what I've read, the problem is that there is no fine-grain exposure control on Nikon cameras (I suppose this refers to the 3", 4", 5", 6", 8", 10", 13", etc. exposure settings). But anyone who has used long exposure photography should know that the Bulb mode on Nikons let you leave the shutter open for however long you hold down the button.

If the issue is that the camera can't be controller through software to have fine-grain exposure length adjustments, has anyone considered making a hardware addon that would read the light settings from the camera and then physically press the shutter button for the desired length of time while the camera is in Bulb mode? I did a quick test with Bulb mode and it looks like the camera can do discrete exposure in increments as small as 0.1 seconds (possibly less, but Windows only showed me down to a single decimal place.


I have no idea about the meaning of your terms about bulb ramping and fine grain exposure, but try Camera S mode to "read the light settings from the camera and then physically press the shutter button for the desired length of time". That is what it does. Having done astro though, I have serious doubts the camera can meter the stars however. Sometimes human eyes and brain are the best tools.

There are timers that don't meter anything, but they will do Bulb for a programmed time (and do timer delay and interval timer too). Nikon MC-36 is one, but pricey. There are equivalent Yongnuo MC-36b available on Ebay from Hong Kong for $18, and Free shipping:Camera Accessories,Apple Accessories-Neewer.com has their label of it for $12 (postage paid from Hong Kong). There are models with different cables for different bodies, I am referring to the D800 model prices. Mine from Yongnuo works fine.
 

benz145

New member
I have no idea about the meaning of your terms about bulb ramping and fine grain exposure, but try Camera S mode to "read the light settings from the camera and then physically press the shutter button for the desired length of time". That is what it does. Having done astro though, I have serious doubts the camera can meter the stars however. Sometimes human eyes and brain are the best tools.

There are timers that don't meter anything, but they will do Bulb for a programmed time (and do timer delay and interval timer too). Nikon MC-36 is one, but pricey. There are equivalent Yongnuo MC-36b available on Ebay from Hong Kong for $18, and Free shipping:Camera Accessories,Apple Accessories-Neewer.com has their label of it for $12 (postage paid from Hong Kong). There are models with different cables for different bodies, I am referring to the D800 model prices. Mine from Yongnuo works fine.

I have tried the S-mode, but like you said, the camera apparently can't take itself down to astrophotography levels.

So with the timers you are talking about you can program it to reduce exposure over a specified period of time? How much control do you have over this? I imagine it would be really difficult to manually program the exposure change over time -- you'd also have to make it go from short exposure (sun up) to long exposure (sun down), and then make it stop reducing the exposure but continue to shoot (so that you don't get star trails). Have you used one to capture such scenes?

From what I understand, the term 'bulb ramping' refers to subtly increasing/decreasing the length of exposure as light increases/decreases (the term makes more sense if you think about a star to sunrise scene). Maybe I'm wrong though : /
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Here are specifications for the Yongnuo MC-36b I mentioned
Digital YONGNUO MC36B N1 Camera Timer Control Shutter Remote Cord for Nikon DSLR | eBay

That is just the first source I saw on Ebay, looking for specs. Also available on Amazon. But much better prices are available from Hong Kong on Ebay, look around. I paid $18, and neewer.com has it for $12 (their label). Nikon gets $130 or $160 for it (MC-36 and MC-36a). There are various models for various camera models.

It goes to 99.99 hours in 1 second increments. It does interval timer too, but you set it, it cannot control the camera except for shutter time and activation. No metering.

I don't see how you could meter the stars anyway. The best you could hope for is that the meter would try to make the sky middle gray. That is how meters work, but that is not what you would ever want.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Bulb ramping is as benz described it, the incremental increase/decrease of shutter speed over a timed series of exposures. Nikon gives you the intervalometer setting, but does not allow you to vary shutter speed. The shutter remote shows in Wayne's post looks similar/identical to the Vello I have and it will again allow you to shoot in intervals, but does not allow you to vary shutter speeds at each interval.

Nikon does allow this to some degree using the exposure bracketing function, which will vary the shutter speed +/- your set amount for a bracketed set of images (only 3 with the D5100, D7000, D600). So while not necessarily exactly what you're looking for, it would be possible to do a series of bracketed intervals that would produce the overall effect you are looking for.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Well, using the $18 timer I linked, and with the camera set to A mode (aperture is set), it will shoot a multiple frame sequence with the camera meter selecting different appropriate shutter speeds for each frame, as metered. Which might work for sunsets (perhaps needing compensation), but metering simply doesn't seem feasible for astro pictures. Except maybe for solar eclipses, there are no changing scenes in astro anyway. :) I'm thinking if you have traveled to the rare eclipse site, you're not interested in trusting the dumb computers anyway. :)

I realize now that Google finds several bulb ramping links, which seem to imply use of a computer to program it. None I saw mention the computer or mention metering. It would need programming and of course exposure data for the specific task. I am old fogy I'm sure, but frankly, unless done every day, it seems far easier and more reliable for a human to stand there and do it.

I have a StopShot timer, which can control camera shutter, flash trigger, and other gear such as water valves for water drop photography. It is a computer, but as offered and accessible, it offers only very limited specific programming, nothing general. The camera could still meter in A mode, but I've always used Manual, for the control it offers.
 

cronix

New member
It can be done, bulb ramping with a Nikon. I spent two years on building a hand held unit that can do it. My controller can even control (and ramp) two cameras. That way you can make 3d time lapse movies or you can have two camera that use two different ramping profiles.

Here is the result of a full auto test. That is done with a light sensor that measures ambient light. These measurements are then used to calculate the ramping speed. The video is a bit too light at the end because of a setting that needs a bit more tweaking; but that is solved now. The shutter speed was ramped from 1/200th to 2.5 seconds. I used bulb from 1sec and slower. The ISO was shifted from 100 to 1600. This is all done automatically via USB:

Nikon D800 ramper test - 14 stops on Vimeo
 
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