The perfect wildlife camera?

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
I'll admit it...I'm one of those never satisfied types. I have the D500 and a "pro" Nikon lens and I love the images it takes but I always want more. More frames per second, more resolution, silent shutter, even better autofocus. I'm not ashamed, people like me and probably you are what make the manufacturers innovate to keep us happy.

Nikon seems to be slipping since the D500 and D850. Their financials are not good either, unfortunately. It's disheartening and has made me consider a break up. I considered Sony but, the ergonomics and until recently glass issues prevented serious consideration.

Now, Canon has really stepped up! The EOS R5 has incredible specs, unbelievable animal eye AF, 12 FPS mechanical with 20 FPS electronic shutter and silent shooting. Full Frame with 45 MP which give it similar output to my D500 in when cropped. Much better video capabilities, especially autofocus. Compatible with all Canon lenses and third party EF lenses and some pretty cool new RF lenses like the 100-500.

I truly love my D500 but I think mirrorless has finally truly exceeded the DSLR even for wildlife shooters. I think I'm going to make the switch to Canon mirrorless. I would love to stay with Nikon but the future seems to be uncertain and lagging behind instead of leading.

I'd be interested in your opinion...
 

Danno

Senior Member
Chris, I think you might want to give it a minute or two before you make the jump. I know that the talking heads on YouTube have really put down the Z6 and Z7 as 3rd rate cameras, but they are not. They are actually quite amazing and do an excellent job with autofocus of face and eyes of people and animals. Are they as fast as Canon and Sony? Not yet, BUT... (and this is the reason I think it is worth giving them a minute), the Z6 and Z7 II have been announced and the full announcement is on October 14.

Rumored specs include dual processors that would dramatically improve focus speed as well as dual card slots and a functional battery grip.

I love my Z6 and one of the most amazing things has been the Nikon support. There have been a number of firmware updates since the introduction of the Z6 and 7. They have included improvements to the focus system, addition of animal eye and face recognition, improved lowlight focus improvement, and just enhancements as well as bug fixes. I also love the Z glass. The 50, and 85 f1.8 glass is amazing. The 24-70 and 14-30 f4 is as well. I replaced my 14-24 f2.8 with the 14-30 f4 and I do not miss it at all. All the Z glass is sharp and clean. Also, my 200-500 f5.6 and my Tamron 70-200 f2.8 G2 works with the adapter as well as it did on my D700.

If you feel the need to make the move now I hope you enjoy the Canon mirrorless. It is a good camera system. But I think you should give it a few weeks and see what is coming. You have a great system right now. Nikon is serious about their mirrorless, in spite of what Tony, Chelsea, Fro, and the Nikon Man have to say.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
My brother is a Canon pro rep. I've played with his cameras. They are pretty incredible. Which is precisely why I still have two D500's that live with the 300mm and 500mm PF lenses on them. Because as good as what's out there is, if I am dead honest with myself and try to cost justify all the times I've been pissed off because I missed a shot between two shots taken 1/10s apart or that I couldn't track the critter with the mirror flopping or just didn't get that focus locked on a lifer kind of shot, well, I'd realize just how ridiculous I sound thinking that dumping nearly $10K worth of gear (plus all my other Nikon stuff) so I can switch to something else that will prove to me that it's the shooter that needed the fixing more than anything is something worth considering.

I make money shooting wildlife (more correctly, I defray some of my equipment costs by selling my photographs), but unless my entire income depended on it I'm happy to wait for Nikon to eventually catch up with a pro sports/wildlife mirrorless. I think they will have one next year. And if they don't I'll still be saving money for when they do instead of fretting over FPS and focus systems.

And yes, my brother is still pissed after 4 years on the job that he hasn't been able to get me to his side.
 
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TwistedThrottle

Senior Member
Nikon finances makes me nervous for Nikon as well. You know what else makes me nervous is how damn long it takes for Nikon to push their product out to the consumer after announcement. Nikon's portion of the pie keeps getting smaller and smaller and I feel like its self induced. Instead of releasing (on time) cameras and lenses people want and need, it seems to me they're trying to cut costs for themselves by just changing the guts of the camera and not passing the savings down to the customers. What I would like to see is a loyalty program where you trade in your system to Nikon and they drop their price dramatically for you on a new mirrorless system. Not like what they have now, that's just a slap in the face. Something better. Like they really want Nikon people to stay with Nikon. The D800 I have now is only worth a 100 bucks with their "trade in" program. That wouldn't even cover an FTZ adapter. SMH, no thanks. Instead, its more tempting to ship all my Nikon gear to a place like KEH and then use that to take the plunge with a new system, be it Nikon or something else. Or just stick with what I have now and wait to see if there is even "Nikon" in a couple of years when I am ready to go mirrorless. Seems to me no matter what you are looking at with Nikon, its about $300 more than what it should be. I think they are banking on the fact that if people want it bad enough, they'll cough it up, (and then wait for delivery). What they failed to realize is the field is already offering people what they want for less money right now. Nikon either pulls a hat out of a rabbit with these new z6ii/z7ii cameras or they continue failing as a company.
This is not to say I am disappointed with my DSLR's. I started in 2007 with a D40x and have had 4 Nikon DSLR's since. I haven't even shot any other system and don't like the idea of changing systems. What a pain. But it might be worth it especially if Nikon doesn't do anything to retain their loyal customers. Sad times for not only Nikon but also for Nikon users.
 

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
I could wait for Nikon but, even these leaked spec's of a camera a year away seems to just be catching up. The health of the company might be one of the top reasons for a change. Staying all in on a company that is clearly in trouble concerns me. Just look at the amazing 500mm pf...they are still extremely difficult to get with a high demand? I know Covid has effected things but they were having trouble meeting demand prior to it. You make a great product, then can't meet demand and you are in financial trouble?

The last thing I want to do is jump ship but, the name on my equipment doesn't mean anything to me. I want the best tool for my needs. I too am trying to make a living with my camera. When I score an amazing image, they sell quickly and easily. I hardly ever sell a portrait of wildlife. I sell incredible action shots or well timed shots, thus the need for frame rate.

Here are my best sellers...you can easily see what they have in common. I want the best chance to get more like these, that's it. Anything I can do make that happen is just smart on my part.

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Danno

Senior Member
Sounds like you have made up your mind. I hope you enjoy your new camera. Which will you go with The Canon EOS R5? Sounds like a very good camera. Canon is investing in some good glass for them as well.

For what it is worth. Nikon's numbers are not the best, but seems they are continuing to invest in the future. The kind of investment they are making in mirrorless bodies and lenses is impressive. They now have 4 models, including one DX and three FX models, and they are announcing two additional FX bodies.

For the first time they seem to be listening to customers with the firmware updates they have made, and the additions being made to the Z6II and Z7II. But the jury is still out on how closely they are listening. In either case it is nice to see a spec that has added duel memory cards and a functional vertical grip on the updated Z6 and Z7.

But you are right Canon is already there with their focus system and faster clicks per second. I do hope you enjoy the EOS R5 or R6. Either one will be great. I hope the focus is as good as some YouTube folks say it is.
 

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
Thanks Danno! It's been coming for a while. I want to do more video clips also and as great as my D500 is for stills it sucks at video unless the subject is static which doesn't happen very often with wildlife. I was just going to add a camera with better video but, if I can get all or most of my needs in one body all the better.

Who knows if Nikon grabs the lead again, maybe I'll be back!
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
If I was going to switch, it would be to Sony. The new Canon looks great, too, but the images I see from my friends' A9s and the capabilities they tell me about would give the nod to Sony.

That said, I am getting great pictures with my D500s. I have two of them, now, and I think they will hold me for several years to come. I would enjoy some of the benefits of the mirrorless cameras, but I am really quite happy with the equipment I have.

At any rate, it really looks like you can't go wrong with the new Canon. A fine camera with great specs. Have fun with it, if that's the way you go. :)
 

Danno

Senior Member
oops... I got carried away with two windows open and posted a message in the wrong window. Since I cannot delete it you get this strange ramble. :playful::eek:
 
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BF Hammer

Senior Member
Just to muddy the decision a bit, but have you actually tried looking through the viewfinder and tracking a bird with a high-frame-rate shooting burst? I have read complaints from some about there being a substantial lag of the EVF updating to live. Obviously you get blackout with a DSLR mirror motion, but instant optical update when the mirror is down between shots. Maybe the R5 is better than that at Sony. I have not tried either in that respect.
 

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
I must be a lousy photographer, because every time I go out with my Nikon gear (D500 & D750 plus assorted lenses) I find out that my results are limited by my capabilities, not my camera's.

It's a good thing that I shoot for me, and as I am lately realizing, more for the experience of the shoot than the final product. Maybe one of these days I'll get to spend the amount of time toward photography that I really want to.

As for Nikon, they have disappointed me in their failure to release a firmware update to allow CFExpress card use in their cameras with XQD slots, but that's about all.

WM
 
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BF Hammer

Senior Member
@Whiskeyman : The original author mentions he is selling his photos, and therefore is a professional. Every missed photo is dollars lost in the pocket, so I cannot dismiss his desire to help himself by buying new gear if it truly works out.

But in my amateur opinion, I question if the lag you get with an EVF is something that everybody can overcome when photographing fast-moving birds (or fast moving subjects in sports for that matter). I personally would have to try one in my hands for a couple of weeks to find out. Rent some gear first before committing is my thought, especially if you need to pay bills with it.
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
Hey, Chris. Since I first saw this thread and replied, I have been reading and seeing more about the R5. It looks like this camera is the real deal, for sure. Animal eye autofocus is pretty much any nature photographer's dream, and it looks like it really works well on the R5.
 

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
I appreciate everyone's comments and points of view.
For me, a camera is a tool. I spent 30 years in different aspects of construction and learned a valuable lesson. You can do things with less than the best or perfect tool for the job but, always be open to new and better tools to get the job done better.
Higher frame rate means more chances to catch that perfectly timed shot. Better autofocus means hopefully the shot is sharp.
The Canon R5 seems like a new mirrorless D850 with faster frame rate and better autofocus...I'd be an idiot not to consider it.
 

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
Hey, Chris. Since I first saw this thread and replied, I have been reading and seeing more about the R5. It looks like this camera is the real deal, for sure. Animal eye autofocus is pretty much any nature photographer's dream, and it looks like it really works well on the R5.

I know a pro who does tours, and his photos are what attract clients to his business, and he is constantly changing systems. When I first met him, he shot Canon, then he switched to Nikon and got rid of his Canon gear. After a while, he purchased some Sony mirrorless gear, while keeping his Nikon gear. He wasn't pleased with the Sony, so he sold it and went back to Nikon full time. Now that the Canon R5 and R6 are released, he abandoned his Nikon gear completely after trying the R5 and sold all of his Nikon gear. Now, he's all in with Canon for the time being, and has added an R6 to his toolbox. The photos he's gotten with them back up his assertion that they're now the best cameras for what he does; the photos he shares are really great. However, I'm sure that he'll change again if and when he sees a better system than the R5/R6/Canon come along.

The big factor in his success, though, is his skillset as a photographer: he gets great shots no matter what gear he's shooting. He is also always out shooting birds and knows his subjects, and his gear, very well.

WM
 

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
@Whiskeyman : The original author mentions he is selling his photos, and therefore is a professional. Every missed photo is dollars lost in the pocket, so I cannot dismiss his desire to help himself by buying new gear if it truly works out.

But in my amateur opinion, I question if the lag you get with an EVF is something that everybody can overcome when photographing fast-moving birds (or fast moving subjects in sports for that matter). I personally would have to try one in my hands for a couple of weeks to find out. Rent some gear first before committing is my thought, especially if you need to pay bills with it.

I don't mean to begrudge his decision at all, but am trying to reinforce the fact that better equipment won't always make someone a better photographer, as Jake (BackdoorArts) stated earlier in this thread.

As far as your question about EVF display lag, I'm going to ask the fellow that has the R5/R6 combo what he feels about it. I do know that he doesn't seem to have any issues tracking BIFs with either the R5 or the R6. Then again, he's really good at tracking moving birds. After I hear back from him, I'll post his opinion here.

WM
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
If you think finding a 500mm F5.6 PF is hard, try finding an R5. Seriously, I know someone who traded in all their Nikon gear for one and has been cameraless for over 2 months.

Again, as for me, I found the greatest upgrade I've made for birds is moving to primes. Focus is quicker and more accurate, OOF areas are much more pleasing, and with PF glass I can handhold all day.

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Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
Again, as for me, I found the greatest upgrade I've made for birds is moving to primes. Focus is quicker and more accurate, OOF areas are much more pleasing, and with PF glass I can handhold all day.

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You make a good point, Jake. Glass is just as important, and in many ways the most important consideration. Being a retired teacher, I don't exactly have a big ol' pile of money to play with. It has occurred to me that saving up for the 500 pf and continuing to use the D500 would likely be the best affordable upgrade I could make.

Nice shots, especially the hawk.
 
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