On Working for Free...
- Thread starter Browncoat
- Start date
I agree with Revolva. THOUSAND DOLLAR TICKETS, and acts outside to entertain the masses waiting to get in should work for FREE?
I'd say, if it were inside, tied to the big folks, perhaps there's going to be enough "marketing value" to warrant the travel expenses, "AS SEEN ON OPRAH", etc. As a side show outside... nah. How much is "I once performed in the street outside of an Oprah thing" really worth?
Come to think of it, I was actually taking pictures out on the sidewalks near the BOK center the last time Michael Buble was in town.... I'm gonna go market that. SEE Y'ALL WHEN I'M RICH!
I'd say, if it were inside, tied to the big folks, perhaps there's going to be enough "marketing value" to warrant the travel expenses, "AS SEEN ON OPRAH", etc. As a side show outside... nah. How much is "I once performed in the street outside of an Oprah thing" really worth?
Come to think of it, I was actually taking pictures out on the sidewalks near the BOK center the last time Michael Buble was in town.... I'm gonna go market that. SEE Y'ALL WHEN I'M RICH!
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Working in the Fine Art department at a college I see things similar to this all the time; people seeking artists to provide either their services, or tangible works, for free. The request is typically "gilded" (tacitly!) with comments about what an allegedly "amazing" opportunity this is/would be for an up and coming young artist. The over arching idea being that their career will, somehow, be furthered by virtue adding this to their portfolio; a "halo effect" of sorts, if you will. This is clearly where the "Oprah Camp" is coming from: "Your performance will be spoken of in the same breath as... as... Oprah Herself! YES! IMAGINE THAT!! And by extension, YOU will be anointed (tainted? (ha!)) by the 'Oprah Halo' and *that*, Starving Artist, is compensation aplenty!"
....
....
Blade Canyon
Senior Member
People ask lawyers to work for free all the time. "This case is going to be in the news, and would be a real feather in your cap."
There was a funny post on here from someone else about a solar panel company looking for a free photographer, and whoever posted it re-wrote the ad to be a photographer seeking free solar panels. Couldn't find it with a search for "solar panels"
There was a funny post on here from someone else about a solar panel company looking for a free photographer, and whoever posted it re-wrote the ad to be a photographer seeking free solar panels. Couldn't find it with a search for "solar panels"
Browncoat
Senior Member
@PapaST I'm curious to read why you side with Oprah on this?
I'm a big fan of the arts for art's sake. That is, local artists showing support for their local communities and performing for free at certain events. Charities, exhibitions, fundraisers and the like.
But hell fire, even my small town county fair pays for local performers. Even the bar down the street pays for local guitar acts on Friday nights. But Oprah Winfrey, who arguably has more money than God, who is promoting a FOR PROFIT national tour, "doesn't have the budget" to pay local performers? It's not even laughable. It's a money grab, pure and simple. There is no such thing as exposure for an event like this, either. If the Oprah tour stops in BFE, Oklahoma...the people of BFE, Oklahoma are already going to know about their local performers. Being reduced to the side stage (where Oprah isn't, and never will be) practically guarantees zero actual exposure.
The icing on the proverbial cake in this instance is that the Live the Life You Want tour is promoting:
The article touches on this also. The "pump you up" motivational speakers (already millionaires) are being paid. Lighting people, stage people, producers, caterers, and dare I say it...probably even photographers...are all being paid.
At any rate, we've touched on this topic many times here over the years. Even if you're not a "pro", don't give your stuff away for free and don't be a sucker if someone waving the "exposure" flag comes knocking on your door.
@Browncoat
Maybe I'm looking at this too cut and dry. The term "free" is being thrown around and I think that's part of the problem. The Oprah show is not offering monetary compensation for services rendered, that's plain to see. But IMO the Oprah show BELIEVES it is offering some form of compensation I'm guessing in the form of exposure. So the Oprah show may "value" that exposure to be worth PLENTY while Revolva values it as zilch. It doesn't pay her rent or electric bill so it's of no use to her. I understand where she's coming from, she wants money not exposure. So to her there's no real compensation. Right or wrong I think the Oprah show is banking on struggling performers to value the exposure and consider that payment enough.
That's sorta why I was curious to know if a lot of other performers felt the same way as Revolva or if they would just jump at the chance to be associated with the show. My guess is if most of them felt as Revolva then monetary compensation would start happening. If performers were just clamoring for the chance then I would think it wise for the Oprah show to leverage that "value".
Maybe I'm looking at this too cut and dry. The term "free" is being thrown around and I think that's part of the problem. The Oprah show is not offering monetary compensation for services rendered, that's plain to see. But IMO the Oprah show BELIEVES it is offering some form of compensation I'm guessing in the form of exposure. So the Oprah show may "value" that exposure to be worth PLENTY while Revolva values it as zilch. It doesn't pay her rent or electric bill so it's of no use to her. I understand where she's coming from, she wants money not exposure. So to her there's no real compensation. Right or wrong I think the Oprah show is banking on struggling performers to value the exposure and consider that payment enough.
That's sorta why I was curious to know if a lot of other performers felt the same way as Revolva or if they would just jump at the chance to be associated with the show. My guess is if most of them felt as Revolva then monetary compensation would start happening. If performers were just clamoring for the chance then I would think it wise for the Oprah show to leverage that "value".
Last edited:
Browncoat
Senior Member
One thing is for certain: this story is gaining more exposure for Revolva than performing for free on the show ever would have.
It has several thousand upvotes on Reddit, has been linked and talked about on the national stage, and of course there's the spread of social media. I myself tweeted the story, posted it on Google+, and linked to it on Oprah's own fan page on Facebook. Would she have gotten any of that "exposure" by performing for free on Oprah's side stage? Nope.
Exposure has value, no doubt. I don't dismiss its worth completely. There are countless people who have come from nowhere and risen to fame because of it. Terry Fator, winner of season two of America's Got Talent is a prime example. A struggling performer for decades, the guy was pretty much the poster child for the starving artist. Now he's headlining his own show in Vegas. And there are many like him...Justin Bieber was some nobody kid who sang on YouTube before he became famous. Kim Kardashian made a porno, and now her Photoshopped body is breaking the internet.
But these famous people, while insanely wealthy and popular (like it or not), are the overwhelming minority. Yet they are what starving artist types yearn for, and what people like the producers of Oprah's show prey on. Hopes and dreams. Today you're a nobody, but just 5 minutes on our show/a blurb in our book/a photo in our magazine will make you an instant sensation. I've had my photography featured in a movie, and been paid for it. Not much, but paid. I've also been approached for publication, with the promise of book copies and "exposure", and turned them down.
We have to assume that none of the performers at this touring show have been paid. I doubt the producers would single out this woman and not offer to pay only her. So yes, performers are lining up for the promised exposure. There are several comments on her page (and on Reddit) from other performers/artists who feel the same way, and support her calling out Oprah on it.
It has several thousand upvotes on Reddit, has been linked and talked about on the national stage, and of course there's the spread of social media. I myself tweeted the story, posted it on Google+, and linked to it on Oprah's own fan page on Facebook. Would she have gotten any of that "exposure" by performing for free on Oprah's side stage? Nope.
Exposure has value, no doubt. I don't dismiss its worth completely. There are countless people who have come from nowhere and risen to fame because of it. Terry Fator, winner of season two of America's Got Talent is a prime example. A struggling performer for decades, the guy was pretty much the poster child for the starving artist. Now he's headlining his own show in Vegas. And there are many like him...Justin Bieber was some nobody kid who sang on YouTube before he became famous. Kim Kardashian made a porno, and now her Photoshopped body is breaking the internet.
But these famous people, while insanely wealthy and popular (like it or not), are the overwhelming minority. Yet they are what starving artist types yearn for, and what people like the producers of Oprah's show prey on. Hopes and dreams. Today you're a nobody, but just 5 minutes on our show/a blurb in our book/a photo in our magazine will make you an instant sensation. I've had my photography featured in a movie, and been paid for it. Not much, but paid. I've also been approached for publication, with the promise of book copies and "exposure", and turned them down.
We have to assume that none of the performers at this touring show have been paid. I doubt the producers would single out this woman and not offer to pay only her. So yes, performers are lining up for the promised exposure. There are several comments on her page (and on Reddit) from other performers/artists who feel the same way, and support her calling out Oprah on it.
This is definitely true.
I just saw a story on Fator last night. That guy paid his dues for sure. He's very humble about it too.
Hopefully her Open Letter will bring light to a subject that deserves some spotlight.
RocketCowboy
Senior Member
Good find @Browncoat!
I get there's a time when people have to "pay their dues" and take gigs they don't particularly enjoy, or take jobs that don't pay as much as what others, but this rubs me the wrong way. I'm glad to see she's getting some serious exposure for taking a stand, and taking a stand for her own "Life that you want".
I get there's a time when people have to "pay their dues" and take gigs they don't particularly enjoy, or take jobs that don't pay as much as what others, but this rubs me the wrong way. I'm glad to see she's getting some serious exposure for taking a stand, and taking a stand for her own "Life that you want".
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
As a former working musician, this resonated with me in a big way. But it's funny, for all the "pass the hat" and "gigs for exposure" we were offered and did, when we did get the opportunity to open for a national act we at least got enough to pay for gas, strings and a meal. Kudos to her for writing the letter. I suspect she might just get some paid gigs.
SkvLTD
Senior Member
I can rant on and on about this one.... to be fair though, performing arts are simply not for everyone and raw talent (in sales as well) separates the wolves from the sheep. Not everyone is cut out to me a wolf, and honestly unless you're on the big stage, it could well mean that you just won't make that kind of cut (without extraneous amount of time and effort, without any guarantee).
Can't really educate the masses or the employers to be fair and appreciate what they take for granted, so perhaps educate artists how to become better salespeople?
Can't really educate the masses or the employers to be fair and appreciate what they take for granted, so perhaps educate artists how to become better salespeople?