Nik Collection?

[BackdoorArts]

according to the web site i linked to, there is no longer an Analog Efex Pro. yet i have v2 and i believe i've always had it. i also have 2 Sharpener 3's - one called RAW presharpener and the other Output Sharpener. anybody know what the difference is? when would you use one over the other?

other than that i'm up to date - Color Efex Pro 4, HDR, Silver, Viveza, DFine 2

I went here (https://www.google.com/nikcollection/) and the first thing I was greeted by was a banner for Analog Efex Pro, so yes, it's there.

Updates are rather surreptitious in that they get applied on exit in the background when there's something available. No announcement really, unless there's a new tool added. IIRC when they introduced Analog Efex Pro it just showed up in the list - no fanfare.

 

[wombat]

Thanks guys for all of your feedback, that video was really interesting.

If it does turn out to be NBG then at least I have you lot to blame :friendly_wink:

I am away to the bush next week so will have a look at NC when I return.

For some reason I have not received emails about this topic, I do have Subscribe to this thread and notify me of changes: Instantly, using email ticked !!!!!!

 

[T-Man]

i also have 2 Sharpener 3's - one called RAW presharpener and the other Output Sharpener. anybody know what the difference is? when would you use one over the other?

The NIK Sharpener is intended to be a 2 stage process that uses 2 different algorithms. They claim it does a better job of sharpening, and based on the results of using it vs using the sharpening in LR, I'm convinced. You don't necessarily have to use both Pre and Output, but if you do, RAW Presharpener is intended to be the first step in your workflow, just to subtly sharpen the image to correct the slight softening your camera's OLPF imparts on the image to prevent "moire" effects. If your camera doesn't have an OLPF, you probably don't need to use it. After the RAW Presharpener, NIK recommends using the Define 2 for noise reduction as the 2nd step, then continue doing all your other processing steps in whatever order you wish, as long as you use Output Sharpener as your very last step. Output Sharpener is intended to "fine tune" your sharpening and optimize the sharpening for a specific output, whether computer display or printing to a specific size and viewing distance. There are tutorials on YouTube that explain this. In addition, Output Sharpener allows you to tweak microcontrast (called "local contrast"), "structure," and a function called "focus" that's hard to explain, but all are explained pretty well in the tutorials on YouTube. Both allow selective sharpening using control points and they have pretty nice effects masks so you can see precisely which elements of your image are being effected by the control point sharpening.

I love the NIK collection. Even if it only contained Sharpener Pro and Define 2 noise reduction, I would still think it was money well spent, as I think Sharpener Pro is better than the sharpening function in LR and I think Define 2 does a better job of noise reduction than the NR "Luminance" function in LR. I use at least Sharpener Pro and Define 2 on every photo, and I use Viveza and Color Efex Pro fairly often. As stated multiple times, the "control points" functionality is a fantastic feature. My only complaint about the NIK collection is if you're using it with LR, it's cumbersome to go from one NIK tool to the next, because you have to create copies of the image in LR each time you use a NIK tool, if you want an image with the cumulative effects of edits in each NIK tool. In contrast, in PS, you would create each edit in layers. But, I don't use PS... yet.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

My only complaint about the NIK collection is if you're using it with LR, it's cumbersome to go from one NIK tool to the next, because you have to create copies of the image in LR each time you use a NIK tool, if you want an image with the cumulative effects of edits in each NIK tool. In contrast, in PS, you would create each edit in layers. But, I don't use PS... yet.

I have been using PS for years and Just started using LR. This is my biggest complaint with LR is you really can't use Nik with it. So for now I am using LR for cataloging only and then switching to Bridge and then ACR and then to PS so Nik works like I want it to.

But great tips on Nik though. I had not heard (or read) about the order of use with sharpening and Define. Generally use those but not all the time and not in that order. Will have to try that next time I do post processing.

 

[Slipperman]

The NIK Sharpener is intended to be a 2 stage process that uses 2 different algorithms. They claim it does a better job of sharpening, and based on the results of using it vs using the sharpening in LR, I'm convinced. You don't necessarily have to use both Pre and Output, but if you do, RAW Presharpener is intended to be the first step in your workflow, just to subtly sharpen the image to correct the slight softening your camera's OLPF imparts on the image to prevent "moire" effects. If your camera doesn't have an OLPF, you probably don't need to use it. After the RAW Presharpener, NIK recommends using the Define 2 for noise reduction as the 2nd step, then continue doing all your other processing steps in whatever order you wish, as long as you use Output Sharpener as your very last step. Output Sharpener is intended to "fine tune" your sharpening and optimize the sharpening for a specific output, whether computer display or printing to a specific size and viewing distance. There are tutorials on YouTube that explain this. In addition, Output Sharpener allows you to tweak microcontrast (called "local contrast"), "structure," and a function called "focus" that's hard to explain, but all are explained pretty well in the tutorials on YouTube. Both allow selective sharpening using control points and they have pretty nice effects masks so you can see precisely which elements of your image are being effected by the control point sharpening.

I love the NIK collection. Even if it only contained Sharpener Pro and Define 2 noise reduction, I would still think it was money well spent, as I think Sharpener Pro is better than the sharpening function in LR and I think Define 2 does a better job of noise reduction than the NR "Luminance" function in LR. I use at least Sharpener Pro and Define 2 on every photo, and I use Viveza and Color Efex Pro fairly often. As stated multiple times, the "control points" functionality is a fantastic feature. My only complaint about the NIK collection is if you're using it with LR, it's cumbersome to go from one NIK tool to the next, because you have to create copies of the image in LR each time you use a NIK tool, if you want an image with the cumulative effects of edits in each NIK tool. In contrast, in PS, you would create each edit in layers. But, I don't use PS... yet.

very helpful.. thx

 

[BackdoorArts]

I have been using PS for years and Just started using LR. This is my biggest complaint with LR is you really can't use Nik with it. So for now I am using LR for cataloging only and then switching to Bridge and then ACR and then to PS so Nik works like I want it to.

But great tips on Nik though. I had not heard (or read) about the order of use with sharpening and Define. Generally use those but not all the time and not in that order. Will have to try that next time I do post processing.

Don, not to derail things, but there's never a reason to go from LR to Bridge. LR is ACR, so do your edits in the Develop module, right-click and then select Edit In -> Adobe Photoshop CC 2014. Save yourself a step and the ACR edits get saved in the LR catalog. That's the way I do it using PS layers to track the Nik changes.

If you don't have PS then you wind up creating new TIFF files for each "layer". It's more cumbersome, but I believe from a space point of view you're not using all that much more space since each layer in PS is a new copy of the image. Delete TIFF's as you'd drop and merge layers. Not nearly as neat, but definitely doable.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

Don, not to derail things, but there never a reason to go from LR to Bridge. LR is ACR, so do your edits in the Develop module, right-click and then select Edit In -> Adobe Photoshop CC 2014. Save yourself a step and the ACR edits get saved in the LR catalog. That's the way I do it using PS layers to track the Nik changes.

I will have to try this.

 

[T-Man]

This is my biggest complaint with LR is you really can't use Nik with it. So for now I am using LR for cataloging only and then switching to Bridge and then ACR and then to PS so Nik works like I want it to.

But great tips on Nik though. I had not heard (or read) about the order of use with sharpening and Define. Generally use those but not all the time and not in that order. Will have to try that next time I do post processing.

You can use the NIK stuff with LR, and I've kinda developed my own workflow with the NIK tools. When you edit a photo in a NIK plug-in, you just need to always select the "Edit a copy with Lightroom adjustments" option each time you go from LR to one of the NIK tools. Each time you edit the photo in a NIK tool and then click save to return back to LR, it adds the word "edit" to the file name. As long as you always work with the file with the most number of "edit"s in the file name, you're working on the cumulative effects from all previous NIK edits. You then delete the previous copies from the stack as you go. It's not the most elegant or seamless workflow, but it works fine.

NIK's recommended workflow:

"1. If desired, apply Raw Presharpener using Sharpener Pro 3.
2. Apply noise reduction using Dfine 2.
3. Control color and light using Viveza 2.
4. Apply filter enhancements using Color Efex Pro 4.
5. Convert to black and white using Silver Efex Pro 2.
6. Apply output sharpening using Sharpener Pro 3.

Note: Analog Efex Pro 2 can be utilized at any point after Dfine 2. HDR Efex Pro 2 is best used immediately after Dfine 2."

From here: https://support.google.com/nikcollection/answer/3000890?hl=en

That's the workflow I use, except I do basic edits to white balance/temp, contrast, clarity, vibrance, CA removal, lens profile corrections, straightening, and cropping in LR as the first step, because after you export to any NIK tool, it's no longer a RAW file anymore, it becomes a TIFF. Therefore, if you don't do these basic adjustments in LR as the first step, you can't use LR's lens profile corrections or the "Adobe standard/landscape/ portrait/vivid" picture modes once the image is no longer RAW. On that first LR adjustment step, I drag the sharpening and noise reduction sliders all the way to the left (0), since I'm going to do all sharpening and NR using the NIK tools. I will also add any spot removal in LR somewhere after the Dfine 2 NR step above. If I'm planning to merge multiple bracketed images into an HDR, I will do the first 2 steps above to each image first, along with lens profile corrections, then import the images into Photomatix (I prefer it vs the NIK HDR Efex Pro personally), then continue with step 3.

However, I'm nowhere close to being as skilled as I want to be (and as some of you folks are) with post-processing, and I know the possibilities are endless. I'm always trying to evolve, but this is what I do now.

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

I think I will start doing the RAW edits in LR instead of going directly to ACR and then go to PS to finish up with NIK.