Japanese Camera Makers Fight Against Smartphone Users -- (NY Times Article)

Phillydog1958

Senior Member
Japan Mid-Tier Camera Makers Face Shakeout as Smartphones Shatter Mirrorless Hopes
By REUTERS
Published: December 29, 2013 at 4:08 PM ET




TOKYO — Panasonic Corp and Japan's other mid-tier camera makers have a battle on their hands to win over a smartphone "selfie" generation to mirrorless cameras that held such promise when they were launched around five years ago.
Reuters
Panasonic, like peers Fujifilm Holdings and Olympus Corp, has been losing money on its cameras since mobile phones that take high-quality photos ate into the compact camera business. This year, compact camera sales are likely to fall more than 40 percent to fewer than 59 million, according to industry researcher IDC.


Meanwhile, sales of mirrorless cameras - seen as a promising format between low-end compacts and high-end single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras - are sputtering as buyers put connectivity above picture quality.


A 40 percent drop in Panasonic's overall camera sales in April-September left the imaging division vulnerable as the company's mid-term plan to March 2016 demands unprofitable businesses turn themselves around or face the axe.


"If you look mid-to-long term, digital camera makers are slipping and the market is becoming an oligopoly," said Credit Suisse imaging analyst Yu Yoshida.


Panasonic held 3.1 percent of the camera market in July-September, down from 3.8 percent a year earlier, according to IDC. Canon Inc, Nikon Corp and Sony Corp controlled over 60 percent between them.


"Only those who have a strong brand and are competitive on price will last - and only Canon, Nikon and Sony fulfil that criteria," added Yoshida.


Canon and Nikon dominate the SLR camera market, while Sony could survive any shakeout thanks to its strength in making sensors for a number of camera manufacturers as well as collaboration with its smartphone division.


SPUTTERING MIRRORLESS


Panasonic, Fujifilm and Olympus are trying to fend off the smartphone threat by cutting compacts, targeting niche markets such as deep-sea diving, and launching the higher-margin mirrorless models.


The mirrorless format promised mid-tier makers an area of growth as the dominance of Canon and Nikon all but shut them out of SLRs, where Sony is a distant third. Neither Panasonic nor Fujifilm makes SLRs, and Olympus stopped developing them this year.


Mirrorless cameras such as Panasonic's Lumix GM eliminate the internal mirrors that optical viewfinders depend on, so users compose images via electronic viewfinders or liquid crystal displays. This allows the camera to be smaller than an SLR, while offering better quality than compacts or smartphones due to larger sensors and interchangeable lenses.


"SLRs are heavy and noisy, whereas mirrorless are small and quiet. While some people say SLRs still have better image quality, mirrorless (cameras) have improved to the point where they're equivalent, if not superior," said Hiroshi Tanaka, director of Fujifilm's optical division.


Critics grumble that LCD screens can never compete with the clarity of an optical viewfinder, and that picture-taking speeds are too slow for fast-action subjects such as sports.


Nevertheless, the mirrorless format has been a hit in Japan since Panasonic launched the first domestically produced model in 2008, the G1. They made up 36 percent of Japan's interchangeable lens camera shipments in January-October, according to researcher CIPA.


But the format is yet to catch on in the United States and Europe, where shipments made up just 10.5 percent and 11.2 percent of all interchangeable camera shipments, respectively, and where consumers tend to equate image quality with size and heft.


Sales, which globally are less than a quarter of those of SLRs, fell by a fifth in the three weeks to December 14 in the United States, which included the busy 'Black Friday' shopping week, while SLR sales rose 1 percent, according to NPD, another industry researcher.


"I would focus on the detachable lens market proper, excluding mirrorless, and focus on connectivity," said Ben Arnold, director of imaging analysis at NPD. "How do you bridge that gap between high photo-capture quality and high-quality camera devices and the cloud where every amateur photographer's images live?"


SMARTPHONE COMPROMISE


Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm do not yet have a definitive answer.


Consumers don't want to connect cameras to phones, analysts say; they want a single interface that can instantly upload photographs to social networking sites such as Facebook Inc and Twitter Inc.


Sony's compromise is its two QX lenses released this quarter. These come with their own sensors and processors, and clip onto smartphones through which the user operates them wirelessly. They are pocket-sized and produce photographs of a quality rivaling that of a compact camera.


"There was a lot of internal disagreement over the product. It's the kind of product you either love or hate," said Shigeki Ishizuka, president of Sony's digital imaging business.


But Sony appears to have connected with consumers as demand soon outstripped production. Some are even using the lenses in a way Sony didn't intend: placed at a distance while they press the shutter on their smartphone to take self-portraits, or selfies.


"We had no idea how much the QX would sell initially when we put it out. We didn't set any targets," said Ishizuka.


It is little surprise Sony was the camera maker to break the mould as it is the only one to also have a profitable smartphone division.


"There are so many consumers that were hungry for Sony to do this," said Chris Chute, IDC's digital imaging research director. "They've (waited for Sony) to come out with something really innovative, almost like the Walkman (portable music player)."
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
I find it interesting that so many are drawn to the low quality camera phone pictures, and I even saw someone getting pictures developed from their camera phone. Yet people will stand there in awe at my printed camera photos and then go back to their camera phone. Quality in anything just doesn't seem to matter as everything seems to have just become a throw away.
 
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weebee

Senior Member
Everything has its place. But for the life of me I can't understand people that go to their dream vacation and only carry a phone to capture the memories. Maybe it's just me.
 

Deezey

Senior Member
Everything has its place. But for the life of me I can't understand people that go to their dream vacation and only carry a phone to capture the memories. Maybe it's just me.

People be lazy. A lot of people will make do with "good enough". And also the instant gratification a camera phone gives people. They just snap and text the picture to family and friends.

And last but not least. Real cameras force you to learn something. Heck...can't have that now can we?
 

southwestsam

Senior Member
The trouble for me is that I love my 5100 - and to entrust an airline with it is, to my mind, stupidity, as they don't know or care what it is.

For me, the SLR stays at home when we go on holiday/vacation outside the UK and out comes the compact (Currently a Canon IXUS 10MP thing - it's the Mrs'!).

What would people recommend with regards to a compact(ish) camera, preferably with interchangeable lenses but not essential, but with a full M mode?

Would like to be able to take better quality pics than the Canon does. Control is limited to "Exposure (+/-)" - the camera sets everything itself.
 

Deezey

Senior Member
About the mirrorless cameras. I think in all honesty, it was a solution that went looking for a problem. I never had the desire to buy one. Not with the cost of these budget DSLR's. I just don't think there was enough of a gap between say the compact camera, and a good bridge camera.

It took the thing most people are intimidated about with DSLR's.(changing a lens) and put it into a package not much smaller than a bridge camera or much bigger than a compact. It's just an awkward sell....
 

Deezey

Senior Member
The trouble for me is that I love my 5100 - and to entrust an airline with it is, to my mind, stupidity, as they don't know or care what it is.

For me, the SLR stays at home when we go on holiday/vacation outside the UK and out comes the compact (Currently a Canon IXUS 10MP thing - it's the Mrs'!).

What would people recommend with regards to a compact(ish) camera, preferably with interchangeable lenses but not essential, but with a full M mode?

Would like to be able to take better quality pics than the Canon does. Control is limited to "Exposure (+/-)" - the camera sets everything itself.

this is is where a bridge camera comes in. Also look into a Coolpix P7700/7800. Has manual controls and shoots RAW.
 

Lurch

Senior Member
I think a lot has to do with the massive improvements in phone cameras as well. EG: My Lumia 1020. In saying that however, the 1020 is a freak in regards to phone cameras and pretty much eats anything else out there from Apple/Samsung/HTC. However in saying that, the cameras on board the latest models of phones are waaay better than they were even 12 months ago. So for the people that would normally only go as far as a P&S anyway it is more than enough.
Since getting the 1020, I've barely touched my Pentax Q (which I love BTW) but just dont have a use for it anymore (not that I'd sell it - emotional attachment is a funny thing).

However narrowing the entire camera market down to just Canon and Nikon (due to their current duopoly of the market) and Sony (for their shear size) is a little narrow minded. Yes, we're all waiting for the day Olympus goes broke (again) but Panasonic and Fuji have a lot more behind them to sustain their products and Pentax (having just been bought by Richo and *finally* getting a new camera to market) will always have a place in the market IMHO. Especially considering the rave reviews the new K3 is getting and more and more reports of seeing Pentax actually 'on the shelves' even here in Australia.
 

Jonathan

Senior Member
The trouble for me is that I love my 5100 - and to entrust an airline with it is, to my mind, stupidity, as they don't know or care what it is.

For me, the SLR stays at home when we go on holiday/vacation outside the UK and out comes the compact (Currently a Canon IXUS 10MP thing - it's the Mrs'!).

What would people recommend with regards to a compact(ish) camera, preferably with interchangeable lenses but not essential, but with a full M mode?

Would like to be able to take better quality pics than the Canon does. Control is limited to "Exposure (+/-)" - the camera sets everything itself.

Same here - my Sony Cybershot travels with me whilst my Nikon languishes at home. I intend to change that by doubling my camera bag (Billington) to take my carry-on stuff as well.
 

southwestsam

Senior Member
I think an interchangeable lens option is out of the window having had a quick look - for the money, I could just get another 5100 body and have the bigger sensor and save money on the lenses!!

I thought they would be in the £150-£250 region, not £400+!!

Even the Coolpix are big bucks.
 

Nero

Senior Member
It's because the same generation that insists on taking selfies 12 times a day and carries a smartphone around constantly just happens to be the laziest generation ever as well. They don't wanna learn, they just wanna shoot themselves and put it on Facebook and Instagram and then bitch when they don't get a ton of likes.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
"... buyers put connectivity above picture quality."

Shocking revelation that most people are *NOT* photographers and want to use a device they already have on them to do something like take snapshots for sharing on social media. I mean, wow, I'm floored by this. Totally floored. [Insert Massive Eye Rolling, HERE]

There are photographers and there are snap-shot takers and the latter don't give a flying rat's a-- about white balance or RAW vs JPG or chromatic aberration; they want the convenience of using a portable device they already tote around with them 24/7 to do something fun with. Photography for most is just something fun to do. Fun. That's IT, that's where it ends. And it's not a big deal to them if they don't have print-worthy resolution, tack sharp images and perfect color balance because that interferes with the spontaneity which, to them, is very important because of the whole FUN factor.

It seems to me mirrorless cameras are great for photographers who, for whatever reason, need a small form factor but don't want to sacrifice image quality. If the Big Players thought mirrorless was going to carve deeply into the cellphone snapshot-shooter crowd I'm not surprised to hear their hopes are dashing against the rocks because it seems clear to me they misread their target demographic.

.....
 

GeoWes

Senior Member
I agree that it's mostly lazy. One takes a snap-shot with a phone without the need for an education in photography. One or two quick snaps, let the phone settings take care of the technical crap. One makes an image with a camera and is more concerned with a good image than getting back into the party. You need the desire and motivation to learn to make images...... any joe blow can take a snapshot with the reasonable chance of comming up with a winner, which is just that: winners by chance, not design.
 

Nero

Senior Member
On Google+ one day i read a very long post of some guy saying that these mirrorless cameras were the future and that the time of the DSLR was coming to an end. He tried to make the advantages mirrorless cameras have over SLR's way bigger than they were. Honestly, the heaviest recently-released Nikon camera I could find was just under 3 pounds. Mirrorless cameras can't weigh much less than that, plus my Lowepro Slingshot 302AW bag makes up for having to carry around a bigger camera and lenses and I'm sure alot of other camera bags do too.

I just don't see mirrorless cameras being much of a mainstream product yet. Maybe in a few years. (Though this guy was pretty sure of himself and it took a lot of willpower not to leave a comment telling him how flawed his logic was.)
 

Lurch

Senior Member
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it; but it seems that a lot of the larger online bloggers have really become mirrorless/m4/3rds fan-boys.
thephoblographer and the online photographer to name two.
 

dramtastic

Senior Member
I've gone the opposite way. Although I'm talking compact camera(Lumix) not smartphone, it was after a wildlife trip in Bolivia last year that I decided to upgrade to a DSLR. Don't get met wrong, the Lumix produces some good even excellent results. But after owning a D7000 and a couple of decent lenses the shortcomings of the Lumix have been highlighted. Moving objects especially birds are problematic, sure there is a massive zoom range but also a huge drop in quality at those ranges, and the sensor cannot resolve the same detail as my DSLR. As for smartphone photo's that's what they are, photo's. Users are not photographers. Taking a selfie with a smartphone while hanging out at the mall with a couple of friends is not photography. It's the equivalent of jumping into one of those photo booths and pulling funny faces with your mates. While we were in Osaka over the last week our friends took most of their shots with a Samsung smartphone even though they also have a Lumix. Basically it's point and shoot. No thought to composing the shot, why would you, you don't learn about photography and then buy a smartphone if your an enthusiast. Many of the simple images were perfectly acceptable for what they were. However, when we went to the Osaka aquarium where the conditions become tricky, that smartphone mostly failed as an image producing device. Out of all the shots taken with the smartphone only 2 were of good quality. The D7000 with Siggy 18-35 1.8 produced many excellent images in difficult conditions. Now many folk would have been happy with even the lesser quality images taken with the smartphone, happy snaps and memories to show where you were. Once I'd shown mine to our friends, I ended up emailing those shots to those guys because they recognized to big jump in quality. I can perfectly understand people who just want memories shots moving from a camera to a smartphone, it will produce all they have ever wanted or needed in a convenient package. Photographers however, will always want the best equipment they can afford, size and weight be damned if needs be.
 
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