flash from the horizontal/vertical orientation has different results

[rocketman122]

I noticed this a lot but more and more im not liking vertical shots with flash bounced up. the light is not diffused as much and seems to burn. not consistent as when shooting vertical. im assuming this is because of the flash head being narrow when pointed vertically up vs the wide head.

what have you experienced?

 

[nikonpup]

imagine the pattern of a dinner plate in the hor. Position then move it to vertical. A big change in where the light goes.

 

[rocketman122]

Hor? you mean air? dont care so much about the pattern more than the fact that it overexposes and the flash should have the tech to know its being pointed vertically. this is not something new. it should be fixed. like with metering and white balance. basic things nikon should address.

for instance, if im shooting outdoors and I enable HSS on the camera and im shooting in A. its happened at times the shutter speed fluctuated over and under 1/250, why doesnt the camera sense the flash is under and adjust itself? instead it overexposes the image. it should know, over, HSS, and if its under, trim the power down. but it doesnt. it burns the images and thats simple things. try it and youll see for yourself.

all I can say is that over so many years of reasearch the flash system still hasnt advanced much. the tech is still lagging imo. the metering hasnt advanced imo either. with all their "color" matrix metering and so called boasting, for backlit situations the metering is horrible, for metering brides is lacking. luckily I know its limits and have learned to adjust but it still has a long way to go.

when I was shooting F5's they boasted the camera has 60000 (dont quote me exactly but something impressive) different algorithms in it of different lighting situations and it knows when youre shooting white and black. and till today it hasnt advanced. predominant black in the image and it overexposes, and if you do a high key setup it underexposes. how can a $10 meter still get more accurate reading than the state of the art camera. and yes I know about the reflective incident and what not. im very proficient with a light meter. thats no excuse. it should read the scene and adjust and it doesnt.

they have a long way to go with flash and metering. yes there is TTL BL and thats nice but it isnt accurate as it could be.

I think if they could put in so much effort in predective autoducs and dynamic AF they can better the metering and flash. I think people just accept what nikon releases and are just happy with that. media plays things up but if you look at it in a technical way, it has some way to go. what im saying is nikon raises prices but doesnt add superior features. I dont say other MFR only because they arent relevant to me.

 

[rocketman122]

imagine the pattern of a dinner plate in the hor. Position then move it to vertical. A big change in where the light goes.

I know what you mean but its not exactly like that. its still bouncing off a surface but more than anything my issue is the overexposure of it. its not as accurate as it is horizontal and there is a clear hotspot.
I guess asking for better metering and that the flash doesnt overheat is too many things to ask of nikon.

 

[WayneF]

for instance, if im shooting outdoors and I enable HSS on the camera and im shooting in A. its happened at times the shutter speed fluctuated over and under 1/250, why doesnt the camera sense the flash is under and adjust itself? instead it overexposes the image. it should know, over, HSS, and if its under, trim the power down. but it doesnt. it burns the images and thats simple things. try it and youll see for yourself.

Yes, flash does take a little more care. Flash is not fully point&shoot, we do have to think just a bit about what we are doing.

Frankly, I have never noticed any issue at all with the flash in vertical orientation, and speedlights have been built that way for a few decades. Post a couple of pictures, same scene with horizontal and vertical WITH EXIF, so we can see what you see. If shooting DX with a FX flash, it is a good bit wider anyway (only a couple of flash models switch zooming with DX).

But yes, Auto FP is Auto FP, and FP triggers on and off above the sync threshold (1/200 or 1/250 second) ... which is the meaning of Auto (what you told it to do). If faster than sync, it switches to be continuous light at 20% power capability. If not faster, it is regular speedlght mode. This is a big difference and kinda important to know, and again, you are the photographer, and it is your job to know what you are doing.

Metering is still TTL either way, should meter OK, if it can, but FP is only 20% power capability, which is a big difference. Do you watch the blinking Ready light to show when it does not have sufficient power for your situation? Then you would know what to expect. You can have it beep at if you if you don't watch.

FP is like Auto ISO, it is best to turn it off if you do not want it coming on.

Or, you can change A mode to be P mode, then camera will stop down all the way to f/22 or f/32 before switching into FP flash mode. Wedding photogs call P mode Professional mode, because they can move indoors to outdoors without thinking about what they are doing.

 

[rocketman122]

Yes, flash does take a little more care. Flash is not fully point&shoot, we do have to think just a bit about what we are doing.

Frankly, I have never noticed any issue at all with the flash in vertical orientation, and speedlights have been built that way for a few decades. Post a couple of pictures, same scene with horizontal and vertical WITH EXIF, so we can see what you see. If shooting DX with a FX flash, it is a good bit wider anyway (only a couple of flash models switch zooming with DX).

But yes, Auto FP is Auto FP, and FP triggers on and off above the sync threshold (1/200 or 1/250 second) ... which is the meaning of Auto (what you told it to do). If faster than sync, it switches to be continuous light at 20% power capability. If not faster, it is regular speedlght mode. This is a big difference and kinda important to know, and again, you are the photographer, and it is your job to know what you are doing.

Metering is still TTL either way, should meter OK, if it can, but FP is only 20% power capability, which is a big difference. Do you watch the blinking Ready light to show when it does not have sufficient power for your situation? Then you would know what to expect. You can have it beep at if you if you don't watch.

FP is like Auto ISO, it is best to turn it off if you do not want it coming on.

Or, you can change A mode to be P mode, then camera will stop down all the way to f/22 or f/32 before switching into FP flash mode. Wedding photogs call P mode Professional mode, because they can move indoors to outdoors without thinking about what they are doing.

I am a professional wedding photographer. I know flash very well. not relevant to post photos for analysis. What im saying is a fact from my POV. im not the only one who says it.

take pictures, post exif, let us see, and well tell you. Wayne,cmon, im not a newcomer to photography. dont mean to sound disrespectful and I find it odd, that you noted yourself as a newbie with all the flash knowledge you have. your post is a bit condescending. and we had this discussion in the past and you got offended that I didnt take what you said as correct.

I dont shoot P. I think P shouldnt even be on dslr cameras so it forces people to control their photography. I call P prosumer mode. yes, buissink may like P but I dont care what he does. I care what I do. I shoot A and M and once in a while S with Auto ISO here and there when my shooting situations changes on the fly. I shoot FX cameras. Again, Im not asking for help to analyze the pictures. Im telling you from experience it isnt accurate. this is my opinion. you are entitled to yours as well and I accept it.

if you dont see the issue then fine. but when I tell you vertical does not shoot like horizontal its from thousands of pics I shoot at weddings. its not as accurate. the beam is not spread out and balanced and there is clear hot spot which is more directed to the center. maybe because there isnt a bounce card as well. so all these things together add up to a less than ideal output.

even the other day when me and my friend were shooting a wedding, it was so evident. on the dance floor ,the bride wanted a picture with 3 friends. he took the shot horizontal, then another girl came (now me me she screamed) and she hugged her so just 2 of them, turned the camera flipped the flash, and ugh, horrible. metering is completely wrong when its vertical.

HSS doesnt recognize below and under HSS speeds. it just overexposes. Used it outdoors recently for some outdoor family formals and it would fluctuate back and forth. a few ok and a few OE and I just turned it off and stopped.

 

[WayneF]

I am a professional wedding photographer. I know flash very well. not relevant to post photos for analysis. What im saying is a fact from my POV. im not the only one who says it.

take pictures, post exif, let us see, and well tell you. Wayne,cmon, im not a newcomer to photography. dont mean to sound disrespectful and I find it odd, that you noted yourself as a newbie with all the flash knowledge you have. your post is a bit condescending. and we had this discussion in the past and you got offended that I didnt take what you said as correct.

I requested the posted pictures so I could see what you see. I cannot imagine it myself.

My "experience" field here used to blank (unselected), I don't know what changed. The forum went through a phase were it started being a required field, and then they made it not required. It was unselected, but somewhere along the way I do seem to have advanced to being Newbie. I don't try to earn a living, but yes, it has been a very serious long time hobby. But I can only select a few things, Newbie, Student, Hobbyist, Semi-pro, none of which seem applicable. I probably would not like any label, and unselected was better, but maybe it disappeared? Sorry if it bothers you, or if you think it matters.

I dont shoot P. I think P shouldnt even be on dslr cameras so it forces people to control their photography. I call P prosumer mode. yes, buissink may like P but I dont care what he does. I care what I do. I shoot A and M and once in a while S with Auto ISO here and there when my shooting situations changes on the fly. I shoot FX cameras. Again, Im not asking for help to analyze the pictures. Im telling you from experience it isnt accurate. this is my opinion. you are entitled to yours as well and I accept it.

if you dont see the issue then fine. but when I tell you vertical does not shoot like horizontal its from thousands of pics I shoot at weddings. its not as accurate. the beam is not spread out and balanced and there is clear hot spot which is more directed to the center. maybe because there isnt a bounce card as well. so all these things together add up to a less than ideal output.

even the other day when me and my friend were shooting a wedding, it was so evident. on the dance floor ,the bride wanted a picture with 3 friends. he took the shot horizontal, then another girl came (now me me she screamed) and she hugged her so just 2 of them, turned the camera flipped the flash, and ugh, horrible. metering is completely wrong when its vertical.

HSS doesnt recognize below and under HSS speeds. it just overexposes. Used it outdoors recently for some outdoor family formals and it would fluctuate back and forth. a few ok and a few OE and I just turned it off and stopped.

I don't have much trouble with flash, so it sounds like that would be worth seeing. I have never seen it. And I can't say I can remember ever seeing HSS overexpose, but HSS is not useful to me. System does turn it off when not needed.