Contract Content & Wording

[hark]

I have never done any shoots for payment and have no plans of doing so just yet. However, I have run into a problem where a verbal agreement hasn't been honored.

I've been taking photos of people for church. It started out with me taking the photos for a wall calendar to be sold as a fund raiser. I was asked if the photos could be used on their web site, and I've always given the same response: each person needs to be asked and must grant their permission. People would ask me if the photos would be used on the web site, and I've always told them I have a verbal agreement in place that they would need to give permission first.

And apparently it isn't being done in many cases. Last weekend I took photos of a big event, and they are waiting to get them. Obviously I need to come up with a contract that will cover people's privacy. It would be in the church's best interest to cover themselves when it comes to privacy especially since I never requested signed releases from the people. Many of the people trusted the photos would only be used in the ways I told them.

So do you have any suggestions on what I need to include or not include for this type of situation? Last night I deleted almost all of the photos I uploaded to the Facebook group since they are pulling them from there. The problem is some of the people have already copied and saved many of my photos.

My biggest concern is people's privacy. They've trusted the verbal agreement I set up, and it pains me to be in this position. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[Fred Kingston_RIP]

You lost me when you said "HIPAA Laws"... ???????? Those laws cover the distribution/publication of people's identifiable HEALTH information... Not a church group sitting around a social picnic.

 

[Needa]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Did you have an agreement with the people you photographed that you would be posting them on Facebook as opposed to just on the calendar? Oh, and I am not on FB so excuse any inaccuracies on my part. Was this a private group or an open share? Seem to me when they were post on FB you are no longer able to control what happens to them.

 

[hark]

You lost me when you said "HIPAA Laws"... ???????? Those laws cover the distribution/publication of people's identifiable HEALTH information... Not a church group sitting around a social picnic.

I changed the wording to privacy. Hippa is the term the church uses for anything that involves people's privacy, but you are correct.

 

[hark]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Did you have an agreement with the people you photographed that you would be posting them on Facebook as opposed to just on the calendar? Oh, and I am not on FB so excuse any inaccuracies on my part. Was this a private group or an open share? Seem to me when they were post on FB you are no longer able to control what happens to them.

I told them the photos would be used for the calendar and to share in a private Facebook group. A few people requested not to be photographed so I respected their wishes. And a small number asked if the photos would be used on the web site. My reply was not unless they were specifically asked and that they needed to give their permission. Initially the web site hadn't been updated in a long time so it wasn't even relevant at the time I started.

My intent never was for the web site although I didn't mind if they were used providing they asked permission. But moving forward, I need to get something in writing with usage rights. A few people seem to be under the impression that when photos are shared online, anyone can use them however they wish. They don't care about copyright.

 

[Needa]

Am I correct that the web site is the church's website? Just ask the person who posted them or the admin if they can be removed. Maybe when you post them to the private FB page put a note that they are are not to be re-posted due to the wishes of some members.

 

[hark]

Am I correct that the web site is the church's website? Just ask the person who posted them or the admin if they can be removed. Maybe when you post them to the private FB page put a note that they are are not to be re-posted due to the wishes of some members.

Yes, it is the church's web site. And the person posting the images asks if they can be used on the web site. I always reply that the people in the photos must agree. And this person is simply disregarding my request and putting them up.

But I have photos from last weekend's event and want to get something in writing before I give them to the church. I am holding off posting them on Facebook for this reason.

 

[Needa]

Yes, it is the church's web site. And the person posting the images asks if they can be used on the web site. I always reply that the people in the photos must agree. And this person is simply disregarding my request and putting them up.

But I have photos from last weekend's event and want to get something in writing before I give them to the church. I am holding off posting them on Facebook for this reason.

You'll have people like that. Sounds prudent to me.

 

[RocketCowboy]

My suggestion... check out the Lawtog. Rachel has several template contracts that can be customized as needed, and then it’s up to you whether you have a lawyer review for your area. The tricky thing here is that the contract still needs to be enforced, so if the church webmaster isn’t honoring the verbal contract, I don’t expect they would honor a written one either.

To me, the question really comes down to whether the people in your images are your clients, or if they are the church’s. Basically, are you shooting (and owning copyright to the images) the events and then handling distribution of product, or is the church “hiring” you to shoot their events with them owning copyright and distribution of the images. If they own the event and hire you, then they have free use (and liability) of the images as they see fit.


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[hark]

My suggestion... check out the Lawtog. Rachel has several template contracts that can be customized as needed, and then it’s up to you whether you have a lawyer review for your area. The tricky thing here is that the contract still needs to be enforced, so if the church webmaster isn’t honoring the verbal contract, I don’t expect they would honor a written one either.

To me, the question really comes down to whether the people in your images are your clients, or if they are the church’s. Basically, are you shooting (and owning copyright to the images) the events and then handling distribution of product, or is the church “hiring” you to shoot their events with them owning copyright and distribution of the images. If they own the event and hire you, then they have free use (and liability) of the images as they see fit.


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Thanks, Charlie. I will check out the templates and see what they have. Fortunately after a few emails and a face-to-face this morning, we are in agreement of making sure only photos that are approved by the people in them are used on the web site as well as coming up with a contract to protect both sides.

 

[Fred Kingston_RIP]

Charlie has the Best solution... Don't retain any rights to the images... Simply give them to the church to do with as they please and let them deal with the website and distribution, and any liability... It isn't like you're giving up your rights to the Million dollar church image, IYKWIM

 

[hark]

Charlie has the Best solution... Don't retain any rights to the images... Simply give them to the church to do with as they please and let them deal with the website and distribution, and any liability... It isn't like you're giving up your rights to the Million dollar church image, IYKWIM

I understand where you're coming from Fred, but here's the thing: when I started taking photos in 2015, my intent for the images was solely for a wall calendar fund raiser and to share the images in a private Facebook group.

A few of the people specifically said I could take their photos providing they didn't get used on the church's web site. At that time, the church wasn't doing anything to update the web site so I assured them it wasn't a problem. It wasn't something I was going to do. Then over a year later, the church decided to create a brand new web site and wanted to use the photos. So I told the church not everyone wanted their pics posted there and that they needed to ask each person (I couldn't remember everyone who asked me and never had anyone sign any release forms).

But now the church will decide the best way to handle it so each member gets to either sign something or another way to obtain permission.

The info the Charlie gave me should give me ideas on what to include and possibly how to word things.

It's just that the members trusted me to take their photos knowing those images wouldn't be posted on the web site. So I need to make sure those requests are honored. But as I said, I know where you're coming from. Unfortunately it is too late to do it that way since I gave these people my word.

 

[RocketCowboy]

It's just that the members trusted me to take their photos knowing those images wouldn't be posted on the web site. So I need to make sure those requests are honored. But as I said, I know where you're coming from. Unfortunately it is too late to do it that way since I gave these people my word.

Nope, you're doing the right thing in ensuring that agreements are upkept and everyone has the same understanding. It may be simpler to let the church maintain those promises going forward, but agree you want to do right for the people you already photographed.

 

[Needa]

Fortunately after a few emails and a face-to-face this morning, we are in agreement of making sure only photos that are approved by the people in them are used on the web site as well as coming up with a contract to protect both sides.

This is the best solution you could have hoped for.